dave_p

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You can regard those people as whiners, but they also illustrate what will happen if a player doesn't play the market. There is really a huge gap between your 16 billion and those so-called whiners.

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I'll never deny that it's easier to make money if you already have money. Obviously, it takes a decent bankroll to buy up Miracles and notice that there's a huge profit opportunity on the sell side. How's this though--every time I make a new Field Crafter accolade (just finished #17 or 18), I net around 50~100M. Every. Time. That enough startup cash for the tired & hungry? Note, it takes almost no startup capital to do this. Hell, you don't even have to go for FC, just memorize the best ones and craft the hell out of them for a few weeks.

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I kind think they went the wrong way on that, since Defense allows you to avoid secondary effects of attacks as well as the damage from the attack. But hey, since I have mainly played Defense-using characters, I'm not minding it.

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What's really broken is if you're allowed to def cap (at least certain bits) a resist based set. Like Invul (I guess you can argue Invul is res-capping a def-based set) or Fire. No, I'm not minding it either, but I'm fearing The N Bat.

To Kruunch, yeah, Hover & CJ stack nicely, and you can 3-slot BotZs in there for lotsa tasty ranged & AoE def bonuses. Love it on my squishies, though I dunno if I'd ever wanna play a Hover based melee.

While I didn't mean it as a curtain call or anything, my last bit of performance art sorta demotivated me to do make any more real inf. I mean, how much more do you really need, right? And I was just using inf to "keep score" and I thought 16B (actually more) was plenty for a personal "high score".

So, I stopped my schemes, pulled out of most of my niches, which is to say let them die off gradually, and stopped paying so much attention to the market. Then came I14. And 10K Pangeans. And silly ticket farming. But I held fast, and while I did buy up every rare salvage my base could hold, it was for personal crafting/slotting. I also bought up & crafted a whole lot of rare IOs for relatively cheap, again for personal (and SG) use.

But temptations abound, and I faltered more than once. Like when buying up enough Miracle uniques to outfit every toon I have. And noticing that the lvl 40s were selling for like 100M (and I bought mine for around 25M). How do you not sell that when you have like 10 more in stock? Similar for equipping purples--you buy something for like 60M and turn around and notice they're selling for 100M+. Why? Why do you torment me so, oh Buy It Nao'ers?!

Every day, I see niches that I could make a killing in. Fulmens and others have *announced* many of them, and they persist. It's amazing that anyone could ever complain about not having gobs of inf in this game, more than they'll ever need. But the whiners will continue to whine while I enjoy my golden years, grumbling about the darn young'uns. Just stay off my lawn, mkay?

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I'd rather use my market slots to flip salvage.

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If we're talking about market slot efficiency, I'd question wasting a slot on flipping salvage too. It's all a matter of degree. *shrugs*

Also, some of us have "retired" and are giving back, as it were. I don't like vendoring stuff since it deleted the resource from the game. So I'll put up worthless stuff for 1 inf to see anyone has a use for it (or more likely craft it and stick it in the SG bin, tho ours are mostly full).

They absolutely were at one point. I remember clearly tracking my proc in Mud Pots. Wonder when all this happened...

I'm assuming you have plenty of inf since you have the Numina & Miracle uniques.

I think you're overslotting for end recovery. As long as you're around +2, you really should be fine. You also should take Grant Cover since that gives you debuff resistance. GC and double stacked AD should take good care of you. Also, swap Zinger for Mocking Beratement in Taunt, and why in the world aren't you taking Shatter? Mace is all about the cones, and you get more AoE def out of the deal. If I had more time I could get your ranged to cap too (think about Char and 6-slotting w/Lockdown), but I'm at work so quick tweaks only. Oh, and I'd totally take Tough & Weave too, which would change this build completely, but that's just me.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Ed: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(3), ImpArm-ResDam(7), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 1: Bash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 2: True Grit -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11), RctvArm-ResDam(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), Heal-I(42)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(11), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 6: Battle Agility -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(7), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(13), Ksmt-Def/Rchg(19)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(40), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(19), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(42)
Level 16: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 20: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Clobber -- B'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), B'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- GftotA-Def(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(33)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(34), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(36), Mocking-Rchg(36)
Level 32: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(34), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 35: One with the Shield -- Heal-I(A)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(43), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Shatter -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(46), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

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Take a Rad/Son & Cold/Son each comparably IOed. Solo some pylons (use insps, no temps, or bring a tank to just Taunt). Post numbers.

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Why would you need Insps?

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If you can do it w/o insps, go for it and post your times. Allowing for insps lowers the bar to entry. You need a pretty good build to solo pylons w/o insps or temps. W/medium purples, pretty much anyone should be able to. The point is to gauge how quickly a Rad & Cold can take down a mob w/massive HPs and high regen, which is why I also say you can just bring a tank to Taunt.

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The number of targets affected is irrelevant. If you're hitting 10 targets with the aura, you've got 10 potential hits with the proc.

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You are of course technically correct, but the # of targets is relevant re: your style of play, and the proc's overall effectiveness to your powerset. If you're going to be soloing Pylons, aura procs are next to worthless. If you're herding the aggro cap all the time, procs will contribute a whole lot more to the total. I'm not really disagreeing w/you in any way, I'm just saying ppl should think about your powerset & playstyle as well before considering procs in their auras.

You're talking about 0.01% of your overall scrapper damage, not % of the aura itself (which, in your case would be meaningless, since it was in CoF). I was saying a proc is worth approx 32% of the base damage of just the aura, which is about an SO's worth, at least for a low damaging tank aura. However, even accounting for scrapper auras vs. tanker (and Pots' damage is underrated), I can't see an aura proc coming in that low under usual cases. Were you only concentrating on 1 mob at a time? If your ST damage is silly high, I can see a proc in an aura be very lowly weighted.

When I get some free time (not soon, I'm afraid), I'll run Hero Stats w/my Fire/Fire scrapper w/procs in Blazing Aura. Since I tend to concentrate on AoE damage, I try to surround myself w/mobs quite a bit so I'm expecting a LOT higher than 0.01% overall damage to a single proc. Even accounting for higher aura damage, I predict somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of base BA damage (so around 10% total) will come from the proc (and Umbral's math seems to back this up). While that's less than a SO, once you ED cap, it's still an excellent option. Unless someone beats me to it (hint, hint ), I'll report back w/some empirical data... sometime soon(tm).

Despite my penchant for number crunching, I've never done the math on procs for damage auras. Why? Because I did extensive "live" testing using Herostats and at least for Mud Pots, a single proc consistently returned about 32% of base damage over time (was 16% of my ED capped damage, out of Granite). That comes out to more or less an SO's worth of damage, so if your damage aura is unslotted, slotting a single dam SO or a single proc is almost a wash. If you're already capped for damage, adding a proc effectively makes it go over ED cap. I can't see why anyone would this this wasn't a great thing.

Mind you, as stated above, I haven't done the math, and I somewhat assume that on higher damaging auras (say, Blazing Aura), the proc would be less effective as a % of base damage, but I still think it's completely worth it esp since you can easily frankenslot your way into capped dam & end redux w/some healthy acc and still have room for 1 or 2 procs. I slot all my damage auras w/2x dam/end, 2x acc/dam/end, and 2 procs. Works out fantastically.

Take a Rad/Son & Cold/Son each comparably IOed. Solo some pylons (use insps, no temps, or bring a tank to just Taunt). Post numbers.

Fight some Nemmies. Kill 2 or more Lts at once and let them stack Vengence. See what your to hit is then. Then fight some CoT or other debuffing foes. Again, see what your to hit is. If you're satisifed w/your hit rate w/o Tactics, you're set. Of course if you're just farming set opponents, you don't need to worry about this.

On my 50 Ice/Storm, I have AA slotted:

Malaise: End/Confuse
Coercive: End/Confuse
Perplex: End/Confuse
3 damage procs

Gives me 85% end redux and confuse while maintaining 3 procs. You could ED cap both w/just 2 procs, of course.

I'm not sold on procs for FR--I merely have it 3-slotted w/Lady Grey's (all 3 containing the word "Recharge"). It's not ED capped for anything, but it recharges in 20sec which is what I wanted. My build is ultra tight (high def) so I basically wanted to make sure FR was up as often as I needed and skimped the other aspects of the power, though I still get 48% def debuff & end redux out of my slotting. If you're not specializing, FR should be 6-slotted, maximizing rech first.

Tho the OP didn't specify, Steamy Mist is tricky too, esp if you're looking to maximize its damage mitigation. I went 3 LotG (+rech, Def, D/End) and 3 Aegis (Res, Res/End, R/E/Rech).

Hey, I was just gonna say Dark/Ice too!

For the TA crowd, I'm all about */TA for uber controllers, but for Defenders, I'm about tied w/TA & Dark. Why? Dark has Fearsome Stare! That's about all you need to control stuff for most fights (unless you're up against fear-resistant mobs, but then you have your holds and debuffs). It's a huge cone, fast recharging and really kinda broken. Oh, Pet Gaze activates faster than Ice Arrow and is easier to stack with, oh, let's see, Freeze Ray.

Which brings me to my 2nd point, Dark/Ice, not a D3, because you can stack holds for bosses. Yes, Fluffy will allow you to do this also, but not reliably. Pet Gaze + Freeze Ray = insta-held boss. Also, Tar Patch + Ice Storm (+Blizzard) = win.

Dark/Ice gives you an awesome fear, much ST holding and a ton of slows. D3 would give you an AoE immob, but w/the fear, I'm not so sure you need it. Yes, you get more stacked debuffs w/a D3, but we're talking about just control here, and besides, I think you get plenty of -to hit from just the Dark primary. TA/* gives you slows, KDs and a really slow AoE hold, but again, for pure control, I don't think it compares.

6-Slot Char & RoF for damage. Take and slot Fire Blast. Make sure your ranged def is 45% with Fort on. AVs will be toast.

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At first I was... WHAT?! but then I noticed the date... lol

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Same. I was all ready to pull out my numbers too.

I soloed Dr Vahz w/my En/En blaster back in i0. 'Course, I was +2 to him...

Yeah, it's not even close, actually.

Beat me to it! What shall I do w/o my profits?

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hehe okay. So Freezing Touch does more damage than Greater Ice Sword?

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Outright? No, though it's close. At 50, GIS has 87.2 base damage while FT has 74.76. What's misleading is that comes as a DoT, so it's possible you waste attacks while the DoT is going. Having said that, FT animates in 1 sec so its DPA is very high (62.93 adjusted for Arcanatime) for a tank. That's higher than Incinerate, also a DoT, and GFS and just a bit lower than the new, gimped Energy Transfer. GIS otoh is a rather pitiful (even for a tank) 34.77. Oh, and just as an added bonus, FT holds stuff.

Now, FT is a bit end intensive, which is to say that it has a bit lower DPE than the other ST attacks, but it's not that much lower. It also recharges a bit slow so it won't be up all the time, but neither is KO Blow (also comparable damage, at least w/o Rage).

For full detail of Ice Melee (all base #s at lvl 50):

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Ice Melee Dam Act Rech End DPE DPA
Frozen Fists 37.37 1.33 3 4.368 8.56 23.59
Ice Sword 58.72 1.33 6 6.864 8.55 37.07
Frost 72.06 2.27 11 11.024 6.54 28.73
Freezing Touch 74.76 1 16 10.192 7.34 62.93
G. Ice Sword 87.2 2.33 10 10.192 8.56 34.77
Frozen Aura 63.2 2.1 20 18.512 3.41 28.16
</pre><hr />

You'll also notice that as long as you're hitting at least 2 mobs, Frost is always better an attack than anything else, excepting FT (need 3 mobs) and FA. If you extend the range of Frost, you can hit a LOT more than 3 mobs very easily.

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If the market is the only reason you play this game, there are far superior economy simulators you can be playing. EVE

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And what makes you think we're not also playing those?

Tho, truth be told, I got sick of EVE a while back. There's much to be said about playing a poor econ sim that lets you shoot lasers out of your eyes.

You haven't been hit enough w/the nerf bat, I see.

I'll see what I have in storage when I get home in a few hours and shoot you a PM or something.

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Ice is definitely the lowest damage tanker secondary.

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That's so utterly wrong, I don't even know where to start. Yes I do. Look at Stars' tables for AoE output. Ice is near the top.

If you'd said Ice Melee is the lowest ST damage tanker secondary, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you, but who plays tanks to hit 1 thing at a time?

To the OP (hey other Ion! ), take, slot &amp; love Frost. Seriously, FA is a gimme, but Frost is the other power that makes Ice Melee a great AoE set. Ppl who complain about IM are the ppl who take &amp; slot up Ice Sword &amp; GIS and notice they suck. Also, Frozen Touch is your best ST attack. Just ignore the fact that it holds and slot it like any other damage attack (or use Peroxes for both).

Look me up on SHF (hint as to who to look for above ) and I'll show you how my Stone/Ice does against huge crowds. Just yesterday, I was outdamaging a poorly built (no Frost, no FA) Fire/Ice w/Burn working in an MA farm--I only joined to see if my Stone/Ice could outdamage him, even in Granite. I did.

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(if you are running a perma-granite build)

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Those are, um... sub optimal.

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For example... I think I'm at like 25 or so psi def another 25 or so psi res while still in granite and I still keep all of the rest of the granite benefits.

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And Granite's disadvantages.

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Keep in mind you almost always have some kind of support helping out with these missions as well. It's not like you won't have a defender or controller along for the ride that will help out substantially with that psi hole.

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Why do you assume this? I solo my Stony all the time (helps that my damage output is rarely hampered by Granite). I duo him w/scrappers or other tanks a lot. I most like pairing him w/a blaster. I doubt very much that I team w/a support toon w/some psi band aid more than 10% of the time.

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It's a lot easier to give granite psi defenses than it is to give a non-granite build with minerals the same defenses to everything else as granite.

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You think it's easier to get to 25% psi def/resist than to get to say, 40-45% S/L/Psi def out of Granite? I'd disagree, though more to the point, they're both somewhat difficult/expensive to get. The more practical solution would be to get Minerals and learn to toggle through your armors. Of course, this also means stop playing perma-Granite, which... well, see paragraph 1.

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In general I think the psi hole is overrated.

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This, I agree with, but for those few situations... And as you state, Minerals is a great mule.