The stealth io that fits into CJ is a nice little addition and it's only going for 1mill a pop, and the mobility plus tiny added def (unless it's a place holder for a lotg set) is a handy addition to a build, though not necessary.
What matters most between the choices you offered is your preference of ground over air, for tanking in particular I've personally avoided Fly, though Supes has no issues with it. :]
Flight is more of a slot investment over leaping, and SD/ can be a pretty tight build especially if you pick up tough/weave & pyre.
Actually I was thinking of combining CJ and Hover to stack their defense (they are stackable aren't they?).
Basically I didn't want to go crazy slotting for defense if I can hit the soft cap without worrying about it (currently I'm around 40% defense without anyone near me).
I've been looking to slot more for recharge and recovery on this guy.
*EDIT* I tried Hover tanking earlier on this build and that didnt seem to be an issue although I have yet to try it with Shield Charge (does Hover mess with Shield Charge?).
The defense values will stack, and combining CJ and Hover gives you one more nice trait: no drift when stopping. While Hover's drift isn't that bad, CJ will completely stop it, allowing you to stop on a dime.
Since I've never tested it, does Shield Charge work while you're in the air? I think it does, I've just never seen it done.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Hmmm I *thought* Hover was acting a little more precisely then I remembered it (when I was using Hover with CJ on the second build). Nice!
Another observation: I've been levelling this guy in AE boss farms (Maniacal Slammers). During such, I've had the chance to see other Shield Tankers in action alongside me during this process and they seem *really* squishy compared to mine (even the L50 ones).
My Shield Tanker is L40 now and has been main tanking the boss farms since the low 30s. I've been wondering if most Shield Tankers don't take Tough/Weave or if my secondary (Dark Melee) is largely responsible for the differences in the squishy factor?
Having said that, I still feel a little squishier then I'd like (mostly on alphas). Is there an IO build aimed particularly at resists that is worthwhile? Or are resists too hard to raise via IO sets past a token level?
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I've been wondering if most Shield Tankers don't take Tough/Weave
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I would say yes. I would actually say that most Tankers that don't come to the forums don't take Tough/Weave. Tough and Weave are for power gamers, even mild ones. Casual players probably don't care to fit them into a build, and would instead prefer powers from the primary/secondary.
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or if my secondary (Dark Melee) is largely responsible for the differences in the squishy factor?
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Depends on what secondary they have, but this could contribute, too. The self-heal, which Shield Defense lacks, combined with a secondary effect that stacks very, very nicely with a Defense build, can make a big difference.
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Is there an IO build aimed particularly at resists that is worthwhile? Or are resists too hard to raise via IO sets past a token level?
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First off, I don't know of a specific build for a Shield/DM aimed at increasing resistance values. I do know, however, that resistance values for IO set bonuses are ridiculously low. Especially when compared to Defense values. I'm not sure exactly why this was done, though I have my hypotheses, but raising Defense levels is much easier than raising resistance values by an appreciable amount.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I've found that to be the case as well (resists vs defense in IO builds).
I guess the thinking is that no matter how much Defense you have (and the soft cap being easily reachable) the mobs still have a minimum chance to hit varying by level and tier as opposed to Resists that work the same way against all mobs independant of tier and level?
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I've found that to be the case as well (resists vs defense in IO builds).
I guess the thinking is that no matter how much Defense you have (and the soft cap being easily reachable) the mobs still have a minimum chance to hit varying by level and tier as opposed to Resists that work the same way against all mobs independant of tier and level?
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I'm betting something along those lines, too. Basically, you don't want characters to be able to easily cap a bunch of resistance values and reach the soft cap of Defense at the same time. The Devs just gave us Defense over Resistance.
I kind think they went the wrong way on that, since Defense allows you to avoid secondary effects of attacks as well as the damage from the attack. But hey, since I have mainly played Defense-using characters, I'm not minding it.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I kind think they went the wrong way on that, since Defense allows you to avoid secondary effects of attacks as well as the damage from the attack. But hey, since I have mainly played Defense-using characters, I'm not minding it.
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What's really broken is if you're allowed to def cap (at least certain bits) a resist based set. Like Invul (I guess you can argue Invul is res-capping a def-based set) or Fire. No, I'm not minding it either, but I'm fearing The N Bat.
To Kruunch, yeah, Hover & CJ stack nicely, and you can 3-slot BotZs in there for lotsa tasty ranged & AoE def bonuses. Love it on my squishies, though I dunno if I'd ever wanna play a Hover based melee.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
One experience I had with Hover tanking Dark Melee, is that the Z-axis (seems) to mess with the cone geometry. I got HUGE Shadow Mauls and Sands of Mu consistantly.
Then again circle strafing seems to do the samething around large packs.
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Actually I was thinking of combining CJ and Hover to stack their defense
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Ahh, the [u]+[u] should have given that away to me, and I don't think I've seen anyone take both. Since you've tried it, you don't have any issue with the snail pace of Hover. =T
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I've been wondering if most Shield Tankers don't take Tough/Weave
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I took them on my sd/ss and it was a large improvement on it's ability to navigate alphas in particular. It makes for a very tight build, but the survivability is better and weave makes for another nice spot to slot lotg 7.5 rech, getting SC back up a little quicker.
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Ahh, the + should have given that away to me, and I don't think I've seen anyone take both. Since you've tried it, you don't have any issue with the snail pace of Hover. =T
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Hover actually moves at a decent clip now, especially once slotted.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I have hover on my shield scrapper which you team with and I love it since I've hit up to 4 mobs with headsplitter in one hit. I didn't know if there were issues with range but maybe it is hover causing it. I may have to include CJ with hover on the second build for the added flight control.
Edit: Oh and I CAN shield charge with hover.
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Question for the Shield Tankers out there ... what are your thoughts on Hover + CJ?
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depends on the secondary. you cant footstomp or fault or tremor while hovering. there are probably other powers you cant use.
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Ahh, the + should have given that away to me, and I don't think I've seen anyone take both. Since you've tried it, you don't have any issue with the snail pace of Hover. =T
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Hover actually moves at a decent clip now, especially once slotted.
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Yes, but do you slot for movement or defense or set bonuses or some combination? Seems wasteful to 6-slot hover of all things, but it could be reasonable (3 BotZs, 3 LotGs).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
If you took swift, you can slot a fly in that to help alleviate the speed issues with hover. I don't think Kruunch will be slotting hover for extra defense, seeing as he stated he didn't want to slot too many other powers for defense and the gains in those outweigh the defense gained from hover alone.
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Ahh, the + should have given that away to me, and I don't think I've seen anyone take both. Since you've tried it, you don't have any issue with the snail pace of Hover. =T
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Hover actually moves at a decent clip now, especially once slotted.
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Yes, but do you slot for movement or defense or set bonuses or some combination? Seems wasteful to 6-slot hover of all things, but it could be reasonable (3 BotZs, 3 LotGs).
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Slotting BotZ in Hover can get you good speed as well as Ranged and AoE defense bonuses.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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One experience I had with Hover tanking Dark Melee, is that the Z-axis (seems) to mess with the cone geometry. I got HUGE Shadow Mauls and Sands of Mu consistantly.
Then again circle strafing seems to do the samething around large packs.
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You may be surprised to see just how far it can be stretched.
Right, thus the "combination". BotZ for speed & set bonuses, LotG for def & even more set bonuses. 
Slotting Hover for def is sometimes overlooked, but if you just need that tiny bit to hit def cap (and let's face it, LotG has some fantastic bonuses)...
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Ahh, the + should have given that away to me, and I don't think I've seen anyone take both. Since you've tried it, you don't have any issue with the snail pace of Hover. =T
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Hover actually moves at a decent clip now, especially once slotted.
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Yep, my point was the base speed is a tad on the slow side, but if that doesn't bother OP then no biggie. Slotting it for speed does dramatically improve it's velocity, but in a tight build even one slot for that can be tough to spare.
Kruunch obviously knew the answer to his question to begin with, he just wanted something to pass the boredom at work today. ;]
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You may be surprised to see just how far it can be stretched.
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"Fixed a bug where cones could hit significantly more enemies than intended."
I haven't kept on top of it so I don't know which cones this effects. p/n
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"Fixed a bug where cones could hit significantly more enemies than intended."
I haven't kept on top of it so I don't know which cones this effects. p/n
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Well [censored].
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Question for the Shield Tankers out there ... what are your thoughts on Hover + CJ?
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depends on the secondary. you cant footstomp or fault or tremor while hovering. there are probably other powers you cant use.
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Yeah I was aware of that and my particular worry was Shield Charge actually (which has been answered, thanks Jeb).
My secondary is Dark Melee so no powers there that I'm aware of that have ground restrictions while casting.
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Ahh, the + should have given that away to me, and I don't think I've seen anyone take both. Since you've tried it, you don't have any issue with the snail pace of Hover. =T
[/ QUOTE ]
Hover actually moves at a decent clip now, especially once slotted.
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Yes, but do you slot for movement or defense or set bonuses or some combination? Seems wasteful to 6-slot hover of all things, but it could be reasonable (3 BotZs, 3 LotGs).
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I could see Hover being annoying to use in an ITF or similar speed run, but by and large the speed of Hover out of the box is fine for normal missions and/or farms in my experience and you can always flip to fly when dashing between groups/objectives.
Just wanted to post a quick response to the above.
I have Hover and Combat jumping on my tank. 4 slots on each. 3 for the Zephyr set and 1 for the LOTG recharge on both. This adds a good amount of defense on my tank.
For reference, I have added my current build below (though I'm currently trying to tweak it to see if I can get some improvements on it).
I never touch the ground with this character and my AoE attacks like Crowd Control and Shatter work fine. There are times in the ITF when things get crowded and I get pushed up in the air a bit. But a quick Shield Charge or a bit of manuevering can get you back on ground level.
(Note: if you are flying, not hovering, and you use Shield Charge, you're flying speed is not supressed, only your attacks are. So you can do flyby attacks.)
Also, I currently do not have Tough/Weave on my build and I'm plenty hard to kill. I do have Medicine, but I haven't had to use it often. Only in ITF do I have to worry sometimes, but for most of the time, I'm maxxed out on my defense debuff resistance.
Ok here's my build: (and if anyone has any sugggestions, let me know, thinking of adding tough at least, maybe weave...)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Defiant Prime 002: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), ResDam-I(5)
Level 1: Bash -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(5), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(7), T'Death-Dam%(7), Zinger-Dam%(9), Hectmb-Dam%(9)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), Ksmt-ToHit+(13)
Level 4: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Numna-Heal(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(15), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 6: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 8: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-ResKB(17), Zephyr-Travel(17), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(19)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(19), HO:Membr(21)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(36), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(46), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(46), H'zdH-EndRdx(48), Numna-Heal(50)
Level 16: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(21), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(23), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(23), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(25), GSFC-Build%(25)
Level 18: Against All Odds -- Taunt-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(29)
Level 22: Clobber -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(29), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(31), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Zinger-Dam%(46)
Level 24: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(33), Zephyr-ResKB(33)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 28: Aid Other -- Mrcl-Heal(A)
Level 30: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(36), Numna-Heal/Rchg(36)
Level 32: Whirling Mace -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(39)
Level 35: Shatter -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(42)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(43), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: One with the Shield -- EndMod-I(A), ResDam-I(45)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(48), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48), Zephyr-ResKB(50)
Level 49: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt/Rng(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Question for the Shield Tankers out there ... what are your thoughts on Hover + CJ?