dave_p

For a standard build, I do 4 Dark Watcher's (for the recharge bonus) and 2 Dampened Spirits to cap recharge & to hit as well as good end redux. For my specialized build, I 6-slot Lockdown, not because the holds in Liquefy are worth a damn, but just for the +def bonuses. Really, the power doesn't need a lot of slotting other than maxing out recharge (which 6-slotting Lockdown almost does, btw), so either go w/3 Membranes or work on whatever IO bonuses you're going for.

God, I hate this new format (first post since servers came back).

Stone vs. Will is a really weird comparison... really apples & oranges to me. I like them both just fine. Will does more than fine, esp IOed out, w/99% of the content in the game. For the 1%, I like my Stony (and for the 99% in my Stone, I don't run Granite all that much).

Don't want to rehash a lot of the arguments above, but some stuff ppl seem to glossing over:

Granite + Rooted = more mez protection than IW alone. SoW evens the score, but it's can't be up all the time like Granite can. I mention this, cuz I got held through IW, a few outside buffs & a bunch of BFs while tanking GW last night on my WP/SS. It was on a lucky shot and we got her anyway, but it was still a bit galling. Also, I've noticed my WP scrapper at least getting mezzed a LOT against Malta of late, and then there's AE mobs. Having the option of always having like 35 pts of mez protection is really nice.

Also, did someone actually equate QR to end drain protections? Seriously? Sappers will suck you dry no matter how much recovery you have, but my Stony in Rooted laughs at them. For normal play, QR is teh uber, of course.

Pots is such a better taunt aura than RttC, it's not even funny. Plus, it's an underrated damage aura which mitigates some of Granite's penalties, and if you don't run Granite all the freakin' time (cuz, you know, you shouldn't), guess what, Stone outdamages WP because of Pots.

Serously, I play both and I love both. They both need so much less work to enjoy than, say, a Fire tank, whom I've only started playing again after IO'ing the crap out of. In fact, Fire's about the only set I really don't enjoy playing (again, unless you IO the hell out of it, then it's cool again).

So, have you actually soloed AVs with an Earth/Thermal? If so, how long does a typical fight take? Genuinely curious.

[ QUOTE ]
I can't say that I have done it, but there have been many, many claims on these boards by players who have had their Ill/Rads solo every AV and Monster in the game (other than Hamidon). I recall a long thread by a guy who had video of when he beat Lusca solo, and I believe he had beaten every AV.

[/ QUOTE ]

His Lusca "soloing" included multiple trips back from the hosp and loading up on insps. Really, it was a testament to his perseverance more than anything else. I never bothered w/his AV vids cuz... well, Ill/Rad is really good at soloing stuff. Just not very fast (at least compared to Fire). Still, I think you & Silverado (and me, for that matter) are talking about slightly different things. Ill/Rad is indeed easy. Fire/Rad (and possibly Fire/others) is harder to achieve, but more efficient once you get there.

Some other random replies:

Re: Jurassik or other "lower level" GMs, I think even w/GM code, the lower level ones (like Jurassik, Babbage, Paladin, etc) have lower stats like regen. TopDoc's the expert (among others, I'm sure) at this. I personally didn't notice a big difference in time bet. soloing Paladin & a DE GM from monster island in PI, but I wasn't paying that much attention either. I estimated it took me anywhere from 15-20 min to solo them, though I prolly could've done Paladin in 10 if I weren't interrupted. And a lot of that time is wasted cuz they run around so freakin' much.

Plant does well against groups, because of Roots and CC and the confuse damage. For ST damage against AVs and above, it's not on the same level as Fire, and neither is Ill.

I'm not convinced that /Cold will be better than /Rad. I've been waiting for the defender board to put up a Rad/Son vs. Cold/Son pylon test, but no one's taken up the challenge. Cold has better debuffs, but they're not all perma (i.e. Benumb), which means the AV/GM will have periods of high regen whereas Rad won't face that. Rad also has AM for the toon & pets, and Cold's shields are meaningless if you do it right (i.e. your pets are never attacked since you have all the aggro). Cold is an awesome set for AV fights, no doubt, but I still think Rad is supreme (unless some /Kins or /Storms wanna prove me wrong). It'll be fun to test though.

QR

Just my own anecdotal observations on tank stacking.

I've never been denied a team for being a tank or refused to accept a tank on a team, because we already had 2 or more. I do find that TFs w/too much melee (yes, scrappers too) tend to fare *on average* worse than those w/well, few melee. The only time I've failed a STF was when we had too many scrappers & tanks, not enough "support". It *generally* takes longer to do a LGTF or ITF w/too many melee toons.

Now, of course there are exceptions, but usually, those exceptions come in the form of "too many" controllers on a lousy team, not a fast moving all tanker team. And most ppl don't complain too much about "too many scrappers", because they add a whole lot of damage.

By comparison, what does that 3rd or 4th tank add to a team that another class would not do better? More protection? 2 tanks (1 really) is more than adequate. Or 1 tank and a controller. Or just a controller. More damage? Pretty much every other AT in the game adds more (sometimes in the way of buffs/debuffs). More support? Well, anyone can take Leadership, and there's like Grant Cover and Melt Armor and the like... but let's face it, tanks aren't exactly rocking the buffs or debuffs. Compare that w/controller or defender "superteams" or even a blaster heavy team w/like a single tank.

I love playing my tanks--they're my 2nd fav AT, but if there's already a tank or 2 on the team, I'm almost always switching over to something else. I never do this if I'm on my blaster/controller/defender on a b/c/d-heavy team, and am usually happy to see those. I'm sure others are perfectly happy to join tank-heavy teams, but for me, I'd like to see some small incentive to have extra tanks on a team, whether it's something that Sarrate or Stars suggested or some other benefit (actually leaning towards Stars' suggestion atm).

Try getting your S/L defense north of 30% and work on your HPs. This will make you a *very* tough scrapper, as opposed to the rather squishy one you are now. And if you're a typical, non-IO'ed F/F scrapper... well, you're sorta squishy--I sure as hell was before IO'ing out. My F/F scrapper has around 40% atm (will get to 45% by 50) and he can pretty much handle anything that's not Psi or toxic. In fact, if he chews a small purple (just combine everything into purples as they come in for a steady supply), he can easily tank an 8-man invinc mission spawn.

As for recharge, it's obviously nice to have, but other than getting HFs to recharge quicker, it doesn't really do too much for you unless you're going for one of the higher end DPS chains. I find Incin > Scorch > Cremate > Scorch (which requires some recharge, but not a ton) is more than good enough, and w/BA & FSC maxed out, your offensive output is already ridiculous.

Yes. Except for the ones who are resistant, but there aren't too many, iirc.

A single Mind troller slept 3 of the 4 AVs in the Kahn TF while the rest of the team took out Reich and my Fire/Rad soloed the lone AV (Vanessa, I think) that couldn't be slept. Reich & Vanessa fell at around the same time then we wiped the floor w/the remaining 3 AVs at once. Smoothest KTF I'd ever run. You can sleep the Nicti in the ITF too, though I haven't tried it.

Are we talking no insps, no temps? If you allow for either or both, soloing AVs is ridiculously easy (seriously, just fill you tray w/16 medium purples). If not...

Ill/Rad is the safest and needs the least amount of defense, though high recharge is preferred. Ill/Kin & Storm can prolly do very well too.

Fire/* is the fastest, but needs quite a bit of IO'ing to get your def high enough. I still haven't seen the data to show which secondary is best. The fastest pylon times I've seen have been on a Fire/Rad, tho I'd still like to see Fire/Kin & Fire/Storm times to see if they can beat it (around 4:10).

*/Storm does have a problem in that it doesn't have a self-heal, and even w/capped def, you still get hit. You might be able to get around this w/an Ill/Storm, but not Fire, or most other primaries. If you take Aid Self, that'll seriously lower your DPS. If you use insps... well, see my first paragraph.

If you just want a "good enough" solo'er, pretty much any Fire/*, Ill/*, and especially paired up w/Rad or Kin (and Cold coming soon) will get the job done.

Do you have a complete ST attack chain w/o FS or GFS? And those ST attacks you do have (and 4-slotted w/Kin Combat) really need to be topped off w/something. Esp Incinerate--not ED capping that for damage is... well, just wrong. Also, Consume really should be slotted w/end mod IOs, otherwise just take Taunt and slot that with the Zinger set. Oh and BA prolly needs more end redux, though if you have enough recovery, you can keep that slotting.

If you're really into capping your defenses, consider dropping RotP and grabbing Maneuvers. You'll only turn it on when you need to, but when you do, you'll have capped S/L defenses... which hopefully means you'll never have a chance to miss RotP. Maybe something like this:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Fire Tanker 1: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(31), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(37), S'fstPrt-ResKB(43)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Blazing Aura -- Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(5), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(23)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(46)
Level 8: Combustion -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(11), Zinger-Taunt(15), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(33), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(39), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(23)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(19), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Burn -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Dmg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 26: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam(43)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(29), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(42)
Level 30: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37), LkGmblr-Def(45)
Level 38: Incinerate -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Melt Armor -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Ragnrk-Dmg(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50), LkGmblr-Def(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

Defensively, it looks good. Offensively... I dunno, GIS is really sorta underpowered, and all your ST attacks are less than ED capped for damage. I usually like to top off my 4 Kin Combats w/like a lvl 50 A/D/R or A/D/E/R to get some better numbers on it. In FT, a Perox would be about perfect. Also, no epic, so no Fireball? And while I like 6-slotting Obliterations in Burn & FA, BA needs more end redux. And Frost only 2 slotted is criminal. 5 slot Posi's including the Dam/Range, and add a 6th lvl 50 range IO.

Healing Flames needs to be slotted as a heal, not for a weak bonus. The +regen should also go into Health, not in there. You won't get cap, but I think the following is a more functional build. To cap it, you have swap out Hasten for Maneuvers, but I think you're better off just chewing a small purple (of which you can hold 16) every once in a while instead. Note, this still has a lot you can tweak, since I didn't spend that much time on it. For example, I hate how Consume is unslotted--I'd prolly drop it altogether if I couldn't squeeze another slot or two out of somewhere else, like maybe Health. I only slot Health w/the Numina & Miracle uniques, so that's 3 slots you can free up right there, but that depends on how much regen & recovery you're looking for. Same for the 4th slot in Stamina.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Ignis Freeze: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-EndRdx(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), S'fstPrt-ResKB(21)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 2: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal(25), Dct'dW-Rchg(34)
Level 4: Blazing Aura -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Dam%(34)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 8: Frost -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(11), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(39), Posi-Dam%(39), Range-I(39)
Level 10: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(25)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Burn -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-%Dam(34), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 20: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(23)
Level 22: Ice Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(42)
Level 26: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 28: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(29), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(29), Zinger-Dam%(33), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(46)
Level 30: Freezing Touch -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(31), HO:Perox(45)
Level 32: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(33), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), RgnTis-Regen+(43), Numna-Heal(46)
Level 35: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(43)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(48), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Consume -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 49: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

[ QUOTE ]
Possibly more agro ... taunt auras have a toHit check while Taunt does not (in PvE)

[/ QUOTE ]

Only damage components have to hits. If the taunt aura is only damaging (e.g. Blazing Aura), it needs a hit check, which is why BA used to be the worst taunt aura for tanks (and it pulsed the slowest too), at least before WP. For something like Pots, it needs a hit check to do damage, but the slow effect is auto and so is the aggro it generates.

For Taunt, I try to stay away from it and only usually pick it up as an IO mule, but once I have it I'm pretty happy I do, cuz let' face it, it's a really nice crutch to lean on and lets you play lazier than w/o Taunt.

I think you're doing very well w/your current def numbers. I don't know your current slotting, but I'd make damn sure to 6-slot Obliterations in Burn and FA for added S/L def, not to mention the damage & recharge you'll get out of those (and your AoE damage will be excellent, btw). If you can afford it, 4 Kin Combats in your melee attacks (including FT!), otherwise 6 ToDs. W/Ice Patch, BA and the PBAoEs mentioned above, maybe add Fireball (or maybe Ice Storm for more slows for your Burn patch) and you'll be an AoE wrecking machine, and should be fairly safe to boot. Fire/Ice is just a fantastic combo.

Anyway, post your build and we can take a look at it.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a big numbers guy, but I do have a high level FM/SR, and its worth mentioning that GFS is a REAL End hog.

[/ QUOTE ]

GFS has a slightly higher DPE than FS or Cremate. Actually, Scorch, FS, Cremate & GFS all have roughly the same DPE, and they're all higher than almost all other scrapper attacks. Incin is just ridiculous. Fire as a whole for almost all sets have high DPEs all around.

Sure, the actual cost might seem high, but if you take into account activation & recharge times, GFS is actually a very low drain on your overall end bar. Of course there's no reason not to slot all your attacks w/some end redux--easy enough to do w/IOs.

Wait a bit. Roll a Plant/Cold. I'm going to reroll my own Plant/Therm as a /Cold. Nothing wrong w/Therm, but /Cold works better w/Plant for stuff like Snow Storm (for the -fly) and Sleet. Sure, you can do the same w/Storm, but Storm doesn't have Heat Loss.

[ QUOTE ]
So what secondary are we now shoehorning the player into? Is the st immobs you are talking about replacing Fireblast with, or one of the melee attacks? What is the dpa when you add in a second or two to close to melee?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you allow for melee attacks, any secondary except Dev would allow you do drop the lowest DPA blast (or two) and increase your overall DPS. If you're strictly talking about ranged, you'd be forced to take /Fire, though any of the Immobs would be better than a DoT-less Fire Blast.

[ QUOTE ]
At some point someone must have thought the exact opposite of you cause they went ahead and specifically added more dot damage to the set. 1.5x as much to each power that had proc dot.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the timing on that? I'm pretty sure the devs didn't pay much attention to animation times for like the 1st 2~3 years of the game, so the concept of DPA was pretty foreign to them. But, you know, I'm perfectly happy to be wrong and have Fire in its current "balanced" state, DoTs and all.

Anyway, this really illustrates what I've been saying all alone--you can't balance (or compare) the primaries very well in a vacuum. Fire by itself might not have much (any) mitigation, but what if you pair it w/something like Ice? How much mitigation do you need when you can kill most things in one salvo? I think all we can offer up are various metrics, of which this thread is one. Sustained DPS is a very good metric--it's not even close to the end-all, be-all, but it's a good tool in trying to figure out what to play, or how to tweak what you already play.

Maybe someone can work out a "burst damage per spawn" comparison, assuming X seconds per spawn and Y global recharge, etc, kind of analysis? Might be a great complement to this particular thread.

I thought I remembered someone (Werner?) saying that the Empower > SS was better in the long run than BF > AV? Never saw the numbers behind that.

I stick w/BF > AV--I have my recharges so that I don't need a filler even when Hasten is down (but not nearly enough for the BF > AS > SS > AS chain). For IO reasons, I ended up taking OTC, so I have my 2nd row as my Sweep combo just in case I (or the team) need the mitigation.

I'm not telling you how to play your game. I'm telling you what one of *my* builds is specified for. Actually, I'm not telling *you* anything since my initial comments were directed at the OP and only responded to your histrionics. I'll stop that now.

If you're soloing w/no insps & no temps, you can't afford the end drain of those two powers, esp in GM fights that can last forever. My ST attack chain in that instance actually regens end back so that I can afford the odd EMP (esp against robots). If you're popping insps, you can run pretty much whatever you want.

Read the post again. Slowly, if you must. HF & CC do very little for you when soloing AV/GM/Pylons.

Yeah, that's the best way to go, w/dual builds. I have an AV soloing build and a team friendly build that are very different (soloer has no Hotfeet or CC, Char & RoF slotted for damage, AM only 4-slotted, etc).

Ice only trails Fire & SS in AoE damage, at least according to Stars' latest charts, and the difference bet. SS & Ice is small. SS might get Rage (and yes, this is what puts it over Ice), but Ice gets Frost (great cone--wide and deep enough to catch 2 or 3 rows of packed mobs, and fast recharging) and Build Up. Ice's ST damage is absolutely abysmal (worst in the game, but make sure to slot FT for damage, not holds), but Shield/Ice and the playstyle it likely entails (i.e. surrounding yourself w/mobs for AAO), sounds fantastic.

I think calling Fireball "lackluster" is pretty insane considering it has a higher DPA than pretty much any other tanker AoE, including FSC, and by a handy margin (FSC does like 1.6x the damage, but takes like 2.7x as long to activate, so... do the math). Hell, even if you halved the damage, I'd still happily take another AoE attack on my tank. And it's *ranged*!

I also love Char for Sappers and the like, but that's just me. Melt Armor recharges so slowly that even when I take it (to open up Fireball), I rarely end up using it. In fact, the only time I take Melt over FBlast (another *ranged* attack whose DPA isn't great, but better than almost all the T1 tank attacks and the same as Scorch, and have I mentioned it's ranged?) is when I don't have the slots to spare for FBlast, so I just grab Melt and don't bother slotting it. YMMV and all that.

Why do you have Membranes in Imps? Or Enzymes in EF? Or 2 Doctored Wounds in Health?

What are you trying to do with this build? Just a general sort of controller? Trying to do damage? Team player? Solo specialist? I really don't see any sort of concept you're striving for other than a bit of paranoia against Psi damage (really, a lot of unnecessary slotting to give you Psi resists & def).

There really are too many things to comment on, so try this first. Remove all your HOs except for the Enzymes in RI (which are perfect) and maybe the Nuc's where appropriate (like in Imps, but then redstribute the other 3 slots in there). Get some IO sets in there (esp in powers like AM) first and repost and I'll look at it again.

Oh, 8 points of -KB is sorta wasted. 4 will get you more than fine as a controller. There are very few mobs that do more than 4, but less than 8 points of KB. I'd drop the Steadfast and save yourself a slot & some inf.

I doubt very much a mag 2 stun will be particularly overpowered for blasters, even if it's an AoE (really, no worse than a cone sleep). If you're having problems w/minions as a blaster, I think you have other issues. I sorta use Dark Pit in conjunction w/Oppressive Gloom on my defender and really, the power is underwhelming (I really only took them as IO mules).

The self heal is more problematic--they'll prolly do away w/it and give Dark an Aim power. With 3 low damage cones, no ranged AoE, no heavy blast, it'll be a damage-light set, but w/good controls and great debuffs, a lot like Sonic.

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Absolute madness...

Some stuff that needs refuting in this thread:
Grounded: Works fine on slopes and [censored], that got fixed. Rarely got KB'ed at all, usually only if leaping from one spawn to another when an ally was in need.
Aid Self: One interrupt was enough to fire this off nearly whenever I wanted, a second and I was firing it off during dots without a second thought. Once you get used to the timing you can stop, heal and start moving again while the effect finishes.
Teams: If you can get ice or ff shields you are a god.
CP: It's good, or would you like to see the screaming if it was removed from the APPs? It will come in at frickin' level 18. People take both Stamina and QR but THIS gets ridiculed?

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As someone who's been defending ELA & anticipating its port to tanks for years now... overreact much?

Agreed on AS, but the fact that I might have to take it in the first place is a bit irritating. Still, most tanks "have to" take certain pools to make up for some shortcomings.

Grounded is a PitA if you happen to hop a lot using CJ + Hurdle for high, unsuppressed mobility during combat. No biggie for me since I'm still dropping in a BotZ or 3 for the set bonuses, but not everyone can do that.

Fire tanks are pretty godly w/an Ice or FF fender on the team. Does that mean they're uber all of a sudden?

If you actually read the arguments against CP, you'd find very few ppl want CP *and* Power Sink. W/o PS, of course CP would be greatly valued.

Again, try to keep in mind, I *like* ELA. Doesn't mean there aren't valid & constructive criticisms about the set and how it might be improved coming to tanks.