Werner

I don't team much, so I get to Leeroy every spawn every mission, other than not having a team behind me freaking out.

Oh, and anyone that didn't realize Leeroy was staged completely missed half of the joke. Staging it doesn't make it a bad joke, or its popularity stupid.

On the rare occasions I team with people outside of a few friends, I'm sometimes respectful of the pace the team is setting, but sometimes not. If all of the spawns are spawns I could solo, then I'm probably going to tear them apart just like I'm soloing, and the team can follow or not.

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What bugs me is that people think that they shouldn't have to put in the same amount of effort that I did to get where I am.

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Right. I just checked, and I have 5160 hours invested across all of my characters, about half that time playing my 50s, plus plenty of time on the forums and in Mids' and spreadsheets.

So when someone with, say, a couple hundred hours in the game and one level 50 thinks they should have everything that I have, I start feeling like they want to get paid for one month of work the same as I get paid for two years of work. And suddenly I start getting a little cranky. I paid my dues. I earned what I have.

And frankly, you CAN have what I have for only a couple hundred hours invested. You just have to invest that time wisely, and some of those hours may well include activities you don't find fun. Or you can just keep doing what you find most fun. You'll get there eventually if you're willing to put in the hours. And if you aren't willing to put in the hours, don't expect to be at the same level as the people who are.

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But it still makes me wonder, when people brag about all their "Ebil" (read: greedy/self-centered) marketeering, and then a few posts or threads later - talk about how they really don't spend that much Inf on their characters?!

Quite often this is followed by claims of various Philanthropy... "I hook-up my whole SG with everything" and/or Charity with "screenshots to prove it"...
Do you really believe they somehow DON'T have at least a handful of completely 'pimped-out' Characters?

Or maybe they just "swim in piles of (unused) Inf", and meanwhile they play with characters that use nearly all SO's or Common IO's, or cheapo "franken-slotable" Set IO's? seriously...

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Well, I can only speak for myself. I do have two pimped out characters, and will probably pimp out more eventually. But yes, I'm swimming in piles of unused influence, and leveling up using mostly SOs, some common IOs, frankenslotting, or rarely a few cheap sets. I don't think the performance difference of sets is worth the trouble while leveling up. I see sets as something to do with a 50 if I want to keep playing and keep getting better after the leveling stops.

But if you want to believe I'm lying about it to mess with people instead of offering what I consider to be sound advice on how not to waste influence, that's cool too. It's no skin off of my back.

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I have a MA/DA I've been working on - a darker take on the classic kung-fu sage. I think he'll be pretty beast if I can get a handle on his Endurance usage.

Dragon's Tail, Oppressive Gloom, Death Shroud, and Exploding Shuriken sounded like a pretty good combination, especially with Cobra Strike for boss-stunning stacking.

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I think we recently voted it least popular scrapper, and then scratched our heads why. It should be great.

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Thats easy, DA covers up all the coolness of MA
I want to see my guy kick not a shadow.

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I actually ended up loving the look of my Spines/Dark so much that I refused to take Cloak of Darkness. My Katana/Dark, on the other hand, is the usual puffball (how I wish at least the sword was visible, though).

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... I'm the opposite. I don't slot super IO's and I could afford them, because I'm like "I get 25% better than SO's from slotting the cheap stuff, I should spend fifty times as much to get 50% better by slotting the expensive stuff? " [Actual numbers are not right. I'm starting to think that I may have to learn how the high end builds work before I can talk intelligently on the topic.]

I think there is a missing thought process in there. If SO's are an '87 Taurus, and the billion-inf build is some sort of Ferrari, people don't realize that there's a nice option that is a lot closer in cost to the Taurus and a lot closer in performance to the Lamborghini.

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I think 25% better than SO is a decent estimate

the 50 times as much is about 30% better

the 500 times as much is maybe 33% better
the 5000 times as much maybe hits 35% better

there is a CLIFF in the cost/performance curve once you get past uncommon sets/frankenslotting.

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In regards to learning how high end builds work, he might be referring to something I showed him recently. He was interested in comparative DPS at different price points, and I made and compared three Katana/Super Reflexes Scrapper builds for him. The top tier build put out 244 DPS. The cheapo set and frankenslotted one put out 140 DPS, and the SO build put out 130 DPS.

I wouldn't conclude much from those numbers, though. Two of the restrictions on the cheapo set build were no global recharge (so I didn't include Hasten or Quickness either) and no global damage bonuses. So I didn't actually make a build, I just slotted attacks. I also stayed away from the Achilles' Heel proc, which would have been a nice boost. I could probably make a cheapish (50 million?) build that would split the difference between the top tier and cheapo builds.

Not that DPS for one particular scrapper combination is indicative of IO price/performance in general, but assuming I could do what I said with the cheapish set build, it would look kind of like this:

SOs (5 million?) 130
Cheapo frankenslotted (10 million?) 140 (2x cost, 8% better)
Cheapish set build (50 million?) 192? (10x cost, 48% better)
Cost no object (2 billion?) 244 (400x cost, 88% better)

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So, yeah, there are people flipping in a price band that may be entirely artificial. My suspicion is that Alchemical Silver is being artificially supported right now- because it's massively more expensive than anything else, and it has more than twice as many bids and sales as anything else in the priceband. Eight thousand people aren't bidding on that stuff. Not with a straight face they're not.

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Well, if someone is keeping the price higher than it would naturally be, thanks Mr. Ebil Manipulator! I sell way more of them on my lowbies than I'll ever buy.

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They can't leave the market as-is without making the game unfun for a large portion of the playerbase. They can't change it without upsetting the people who have come to enjoy the market minigame for its own sake.

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I'm not that worried about the market mini-game. It's OK, but I like the beating up bad guys part of the game a whole lot more. What would upset me is spending billions to make my characters great, and then having the devs crash ALL recipes the way they did the costume recipes.

That and “easy” just isn't what I'm looking for in an MMO. I don't want an MMO where everyone gets an A+! Yay! We're all WINNERS! I want a traditional curve. I want average players to get a C. I want terrible players to flunk out. And I want players willing to put forth the effort in all regards – gaming skill, build knowledge, grinding for ages or understanding the market – to be rewarded with an A. Otherwise, I feel like my experience is being cheapened, and I'd be looking for another MMO that offers me those things. IOs, scarcity and the market are likely what's kept me in this game.

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I have a MA/DA I've been working on - a darker take on the classic kung-fu sage. I think he'll be pretty beast if I can get a handle on his Endurance usage.

Dragon's Tail, Oppressive Gloom, Death Shroud, and Exploding Shuriken sounded like a pretty good combination, especially with Cobra Strike for boss-stunning stacking.

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I think we recently voted it least popular scrapper, and then scratched our heads why. It should be great.

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Let's move on to something less controversial, like Siphon Life slotting...

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I currently use 4 Kinetic Combats and 2 Theft of the Nictus (including the chance for +End) it strikes a compromise between damage and heal, with good recharge and accuracy, but I'm still wondering if I could get more from it?

Discuss -



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As you wish.

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Aren't we snarky this morning, lol

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No more than usual :P

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It fills my heart with light and happiness. All is right with the world.

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You have a heart?

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Yea, but he hurls it at AVs as a minor disorient when they tick him off.

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LOL

(Yeah, it really freaks most AVs out when you tear your own heart out of your chest and pummel them with it while it's still beating. But hey, I'm Regen. Get your fun where you can, I say. Speaking of which, why doesn't the game have an animation for that? That would be awesome. )

Well, I agree that it's so different from its original conception that it would be better off with another name, like “spaz clicky healy set”, but no matter how many PMs I send to the devs, they haven't started using that name.

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The worst possible thing that I can think of as a non-melee focused squishy is having a newb shielder standing next to me with a taunt aura running thinking he's saving me by granting me 13% defense.

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Good point. My Blasters' main defense is MOVEMENT. The last thing I want is some scrapper with a taunt aura chasing me around and yelling at me to stop so that they can give me an insignificant little buff.

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Mids is incorrect, GC is just under 14% def to others at base (scrappers) and around 23% def to all slotted up. Thats serious mitigation no matter how you look at it and is far from insignificant. You can see how effective it is on the mission with all the freak tanks at the end, if the tanks (of the hero variety) ventured outside the radius of my GC their HPs started to fall at an alarming rate.

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OK, I shouldn't have referred to it as “an insignificant little buff”. But still, keep away from me unless I've slotted up my blasters for some serious defense to stack on it, or someone else on the team is offering me serious defense.

23% defense means maybe 50% damage mitigation. I'm pretty confident that I get more than that by avoiding almost ALL melee attacks through movement, keeping out of the splash AoE, and avoiding many ranged attacks by confusing the AI into chasing instead of shooting. (Edit: And a mixture of PBAoEs, targetted AoEs, short cones and long cones means I'm always on the move anyway, so my damage output can tank if I just stand still.)

It's a great buff for the tank if you're chasing the tank around (assuming not already soft-capped), but don't chase my blaster around. You want to help me out? KILL whatever is causing me trouble. Kill that mezzer. Kill those guys shooting at me.

But yes, the power's failing is its radius, not its buff. And it's logical that they keep the radius small, so I don't see that changing. I'm a big fan of Leadership despite the low numbers because the radius is big enough to typically buff the whole team.

Still, I took the power myself. I chase the tank around. But I wouldn't go near squishies with it, and wouldn't expect them to come near me.

See, exactly. It's easy to drive up prices – just keep buying and deleting. Making a profit on it is a much harder proposition.

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Werner: The tragedy is, a couple of people ARE spending terrible amounts of effort keeping the prices up on pieces of common salvage. They probably discovered what they think is a great and terrible secret, that they can make a quarter million inf per stack and they can do it on forty stacks a day. TEN MILLION INF A DAY and it only takes them like an hour of miserable boring work.

(Actually, the one time I saw it, provably, it was 6 million a day on eighty stacks. *wince*)

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The only reports I've seen on driving up common salvage prices have been for entertainment. People just want to see if they can (spoiler: they can). Or sometimes, even for spite. I've not heard any first hand reports of people actually sustaining any sorts of profits by doing so. And I assume that Smurphy would still be happy to fund anyone's attempt to do so, and reward them handsomely if they succeed.

So... you saw someone actually sustain minor profits on eighty stacks of commons a day?

Shield Defense is great when IO'd to the gills. And even without, it's pretty darn good combined with some extra mitigation, like the swords or Dark Melee. But overall, in average hands on an average SO build? I can at least understand the argument that's it's a bit lacking in mitigation. But then, shouldn't it be? It has a big damage buff. Your mitigation is killing the enemy faster.

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The worst possible thing that I can think of as a non-melee focused squishy is having a newb shielder standing next to me with a taunt aura running thinking he's saving me by granting me 13% defense.

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Good point. My Blasters' main defense is MOVEMENT. The last thing I want is some scrapper with a taunt aura chasing me around and yelling at me to stop so that they can give me an insignificant little buff.

<3 DM

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Aren't we snarky this morning, lol

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No more than usual :P

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It fills my heart with light and happiness. All is right with the world.

Oh, good lord. Will old Regen DIE already?

Regen has been a click set for a VERY long time now. How many YEARS has it been? I've long since gotten used to it, and with the clicks being the difference between it and Willpower. Please do not change the entire nature of the set AGAIN just because you're nostalgic for the good old days.

To be sure, I loved old Regen. I was very mad when they nerfed it over and over and then changed the entire nature of the set. But I MOVED ON. I adapted and overcame. The set now is what it is, and I'm happy with what it is. And if you want to play something closer to old Regen, PLAY WILLPOWER.

I won't object to a minor Regen buff such as regen debuff resistance and/or recharge debuff resistance. Although I feel that Regen is just as good as other sets in capable hands, I'm coming around to thinking that it should be as good as other sets in average hands, and thus perhaps better than other sets in very capable hands. But I'm not pushing for the buff either. Regen is fine either way.

Looks like you're a quick study, then.

I'm late to this party, but I got my feathers ruffled, so here we go.

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I personally think that the Crafting system is borked because some higher-level Recipes require salvage attainable only by lower-level toons. When a lvl 40-something toon needs an Alc Silver or other piece of Common Salvage he thinks nothing of paying 50-100k for it because he can earn that much in a few minute's of play. If a character in the teens or 20s needs it they may have trouble competing with the price and get shut out.

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Uh... what? High level characters paying 50k for my lowbie salvage is how I can afford everything on my lowbies. I only transfer influence when I hit the cap, and it isn't so my lowbies can afford common salvage. What are you DOING in the game that you NEED the salvage? And why don't you get it the way my lowbies do – by PLAYING?

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A real world analogy would be bread. Yes, the wealthy still buy bread, however some of them buy the ultra-pure and expensive designer bread (yes, designer bread...) that lower or middle income people avoid simply due to the price. You never hear of someone buying all of the bread in town and then flipping it at a huge profit.

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OK, here's your analogy. Ultra-pure and expensive designer bread rains from the skies, but only in poor neighborhoods. The poor can eat it if they want – there's plenty. Or they can sell it to the rich for MASSIVE amounts of money, and go buy all the regular bread they could ever eat, plus a nice used car, plus pay the rent, plus put their kids through college. And you're COMPLAINING?

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My other problem with the Market is manipulation. I have always felt since I9 launched that there should be Market controls to prevent a few characters from cornering the Market on a single commodity. Something listed as Common should always BE Common in that there should ALWAYS be a supply of it on the Market. No one player or cartel should be able to bottom the Market on anything.

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LOL people that believe players and cartels are cornering the market on commons for profit.

Dude, I don't have TIME for commons. I either delete them or dump them at one influence. Even if I COULD control the market for profit, and I can't, they'd be chump change. I'd control the market on rares or purples or something.

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But what if you want those lvl 20 IOs a few levels later but can't afford to craft them because all of the salvage for them has spiked over 50k?

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Then do what I do, yeah, me, the ebil rich marketeer. I BUY DOs. Are you serious? You take the time and effort to craft level 20 IOs that will be outclassed in just a few levels? There's your problem right there.

Look, I don't buy TOs at all. The low levels go by too fast. Then I do DOs. Then I do SOs. Some time in the 30s, if I'm having endurance trouble, I'll frankenslot my attacks, or maybe not. If common IO prices look reasonable, maybe I'll buy some instead of SOs. If I think they're inflated higher than they should be, I pass.

I'm not saying that what I do is numerically optimal, because it isn't. But I've got faces to smash in. Optimizing my slotting every few levels is something I'm not going to waste my time and influence on. Perhaps you shouldn't either.

I took it. I'd recommend it. It just wouldn't be at the top of the list. I can understand scrappers focusing on things other than protecting their very nearby teammates passively.

I agree with BrokenPrey regarding pylons vs. AVs. I can solo Rikti pylons on Werner without using my click powers and without keeping Divine Avalanche double stacked. Most AVs are much more dangerous than pylons in my experience.

And yes, with Willpower, while soft-capped defense is still desirable, it's also very hard to pull off and not really necessary. Willpower has so much else to offer that you can probably get away with less defense. Just keep in mind that at 40% defense, you're getting hit twice as often, and at 30% defense, four times as often.

I'd sacrifice offense. I'd run my standard defensive chain, put out maybe 170 DPS or so, and be perfectly happy. Still haven't worked any further on a build, so I don't really have anything new to add.

Well, maybe a little. The to hit buffs and defense debuffs in Architect Entertainment make me uncomfortable. I'm feeling less confident in the abilities of a soft-capped Katana/Dark. Broad Sword/Shields is sounding better to me these days due to the defense debuff protection and ability to go well over the soft cap on melee defense.

It's not an AV killer, at least in the “soloing with no temps or inspirations” sense. It'll do fine helping out on a team.

To solo AVs without temps or inspirations, you “need” a handful of things, including:

soft-capped defense (45%+)
big hit points and/or decent resistance
sustainable endurance use
a decent DPS chain
a heal or crazy amounts of regeneration

Your defense is the biggest problem, though it can be fixed with inspirations. Your second biggest problem is endurance. Yes, I see that you have Quick Recovery, Stamina and the Numina unique. But your net recovery is 2.54 EPS before figuring in your attacks, and I'm pretty confident that your attack chain can burn through that and more, though I haven't done the math to make certain. Again, inspirations can come to the rescue, but there are only so many inspirations you can carry. Might be doable, though.

Basically, if you want to push yourself further, you want to build up your defense. Steadfast protection unique, Gaussian set, and a bunch of other things I'm not thinking of. Mids' will let you look up set bonuses, so that's a good place to start. For endurance, you'll want the accolades, the Miracle unique, and some good sets in the attacks. That'll probably be enough.