Werner

I believe the argument goes that with no toggles up and no mitigation from Revive, anything that was able to kill you the first time is going to kill you again in very short order, perhaps before you can even hit Moment of Glory. I've never taken a rez power, but at one point, I was trying to do a "worst case scenario" RWZ challenge that included beginning the fight dead and using a wakie. Even with a tier 3 wakie, I could never hit a single power before I was dead again. Since my build was perfectly capable of reliably taking out a RWZ challenge spawn, this just reinforced my belief that Regen's rez was useless to me.

Well, not useless. If I take the time to pull a spawn away from their spawn point, I could rez once they returned. But I'm not going to do that when I die once in a blue moon.

I suppose I could be missing something if you like Revive. How are you taking advantage of it?

In addition to Arcanaville's comments, no, not all balancing adjustments are done based on SO setups. That might be the devs' primary concern, but they are certainly not ignoring what's possible with IOs.

Ah, yeah, 11.25% isn't going to do much of anything. Probably normally exactly nothing. Ah, well. On the bright side, it at least says "we're willing to look at it". But it could also mean, "we looked at it, here's your token buff, now shut up" like you say.

That DOES sound nice.

Here's Iggy Kamakaze on a Claws/Regen doing a double RWZ challenge with no incarnate powers slotted. That's pretty high end survivability. Granted, he abuses the hell out of his knockback, but that just means it's not a "go make a sandwich" combo.

I think it could use minor buffage, such as the oft-suggested regen and/or recharge debuff resistance, but it's still pretty competitive as long as you're on top of it. I don't see a need for an overhaul.

Yeah, I guess once you get enough defense dialed in, the knockback owns any extra defense from Divine Avalanche in any pressure cooker situation.

Elegost and I are talking about a very specific build, though. Yes, it has super high recharge and a ton of clicks. But it also has soft-capped melee/lethal, plus ranged and AoE around 35% if I recall (edit: 32.5%, one purple from cap), plus decent passive regeneration. I'd predicted that most of the time, you'd be coasting along just fine without much clicking. I was curious if I was right. I'm sure it depends greatly on your normal difficulty settings, of course. I'm sure +4x8 is a click fest.

So... you're enjoying your build, then? How unkillable do you feel, and compared to what? How clicky is it, and when does it get that clicky? Does the damage feel sad, or can you spend most of your time doing the DPS chain with no survivability concerns, or do the incarnate powers make it feel good? Any other comments?

I suppose the first thing to do if I'm thinking of pulling the trigger is to pull Werner out of retirement and learn to play Regeneration again. I bet I totally suck now.

Mind you, that would take playing the game again. I've barely touched it in months. A mission now and then. I just don't like the incarnate trials all that much, and the lack of a solo path to advance upsets me to the point where it has tainted the solo activities I normally find fun. Yes, yes, I know the only reason to advance is to run the incarnate trials. But if there was a solo path, I assume there would be a solo challenge as well. Sorry, way off topic.

But yeah, back on the original subject, just about everything goes well with Katana. Heck, Super Reflexes goes fine with Katana, and it probably benefits the least since you can soft cap without Divine Avalanche, and Divine Avalanche is kind of the reason to go Katana. It'll really smooth the leveling out, though, which is a nice bonus. I loves me some Katana.

Did you kit yours out? Are you playing it? Is it really that good compared to your Katana/Willpower?

(I'm still tempted. Not enough to pull the trigger on a build yet, but tempted.)

Katana:
74.6 DPS 0 parry @ 250% recharge
65.5 DPS 1 parry @ 103% recharge
60.9 DPS 2 parry @ 90% recharge

Broad Sword:
71.6 DPS 0 parry @ 304% recharge
65.5 DPS 1 parry @ 219% recharge
59.6 DPS 2 parry @ 108% recharge

So Katana has slightly better DPS, but really only on high end recharge builds running top DPS chains. The bigger advantage for Katana, in some cases at least, is that it can achieve that DPS at somewhat lower recharge rates. The recharge advantage is almost meaningless for a high end Regen, though, as you're going to have gigantic recharge anyway, and you'll want to be using at least one Parry most of the time.

As far as burst damage, yes, Broad Sword has the single hit advantage if that's something you're after, but that advantage won't last for long.

In other words, the differences are pretty small on a high end Sword/Regen. The Reactive interface might swing DPS slightly further in Katana's direction, but I doubt it's all that big a deal. So in case you were going to ask, there's absolutely no reason to start over with Katana in my opinion. The linked thread was just about Katana/Regen because that's what I happen to have.

Do they? I was interpreting (or perhaps misinterpreting) this information to mean that it wasn't much of an issue:

It seems like you would sometimes suffer from a minor regen debuff (minor when we're averaging instant healing sorts of regeneration), but that this wouldn't have a large overall effect, and wouldn't affect your heals. Again, I haven't fought Hamidon in forever, so I'm relying on second-hand information trying to figure this out.

Edit: This just seems to be a discussion of mitos on second reading. I assume Hamidon blasts can't shut of primary healing any more than mitos can, but perhaps the Hamidon blasts have a much larger regeneration debuff than the mitos?

I haven't fought Hamidon since the 150-person raids, so I have no idea what's involved these days. But Arcanaville said that the Hamidon nucleus puts out about 200 DPS. Some of the builds in the thread you link to are healing an average of 250 hit points per second. I doubt the healing is consistent enough, but maybe, just maybe, Regeneration can solo-tank Hamidon again.

Also, I'm thinking that with all the extra defense available in modern builds, that in most circumstances, a top end Regeneration these days is MORE survivable than a top end Regeneration in the glory days. I didn't have one back then, though. I could be totally high. And certainly it takes a lot more effort and concentration these days.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are a lot out there, but there are not a lot coming up for sale, and the frequency of the sales seems to keep getting lower and lower. Gladiator Armors are still being produced, so there isn't the same kind of problem with supply, even if both have very low supply.

Leave multiple gigantic bids for the 51-53 level range on the market for month after month. Also check the market forum, since they sometimes come up for sale there. Now ignore all that because I want them all. Mine mine mine!!!

I'm too tired/busy this evening to do any math, but I'd guess that you're right, particularly if you're running the DPS chain instead of a defensive chain (so that Soaring Dragon represents a larger percentage of your attacks). I seem to always end up with a Mako's Bite set in Soaring Dragon which makes the question moot for me, but then, I build and play defensively instead of offensively. Offensively is probably better most of the time.

Actually, Aid Self is great for AV soloing on a Super Reflexes. I think greens are better in normal play, but I think describing Aid Self as useless is overstating the case. As far as the interruptibility, slot one or two interrupt reductions and practice your timing.

With good hit points, slotted Tough, and properly slotted and used Aid Self, the "you are invincible until you suddenly die" feeling should go away, replaced by simply "you are invincible".

These days, though, I'd probably go with Rebirth, and at that point, Aid Self might be a little redundant in most circumstances.