Simak
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Posts
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Joined
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While I don't fully agree with Tokyo's opinion of slotting Shadow Fall the main idea I agree. If min/maxing is what you want then you have quite a many powers slotted a bit weirdly.Main things:
-PICK Fearsome Stare.
-Discard personal attacks
-Make Dark servant permanent
-Read once more the things Tokyo pointed out concerning slotting.
-Try to play tankermind. The damage mitigation of well built bots/dark MM (like a few other MM prim/sec combos) is imo plain crazy.
-Learn to play Tankermind
Search some builds in these forums and and check how they are slotted . I'd recommend a respec really soon. If you can afford to spend ~200mil to a build try my cheapo bots/dark build for a couple of weeks. Then recheck some more builds in forums. Maybe ask a few questions and reshape the build according to your personal likings.. IMO it's easiest and fastest way to learn and test another type of MM. In case you dont like this build I'd recommend to check for example spiritfox's version. They are quite a like tho me thinks mine has a minor upper hand at performance and a bit bigger at value. But it's very good option. (Of course I prefer my own build
)
There's also a bots/dark build from Powerforge in MM forums that will also perform very well tho iirc it's the most expensive one of these three.
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Quote:Giant Monsters have a regen >300/sec. One of the key things for soloing those is Reg debuffing. You can easily gain bigger advantage from good reg debuffing abilities than you would get from an extra 200 DPS. Actually probably even bigger than that (depending on ones real DPS)Originally Posted by mintmiki
Yet, I think the GM thing is impossible without some form of -regen or debuff of some sort.
soloing.
I just wonder what AT (combo) is fastest at soloing GM's? Care to share your opinion Silverado..? I'd think Bots/Traps MM is really high on that list and doesn't even need insps/temps for solo unlike many of other ATs. Probably Fire/Rad corruptor is also wicked one..
I know My Bots/Dark can solo some GM under 10mins (personal record is Eochai in 8:20 without insps/temps) But I'd think /Traps will probably be a bit faster than /Dark.
And Gz Silverado! -
Quote:Achilles Heel's proc and Lady Grey's proc both have has 20% chance to proc when ever enforcer uses a power that has def debuff on it.Originally Posted by Tokyo
Best to slot achilles heel in your Enforcers. Lady grey negative damage is also A good choice. Both have a very good chance to proc.
My experience with Gaussian's and soulbound is that they tend to proc when you summon. Rarely if ever while they are active.
Soulbound's chance for Build Up has deffinately chance to proc whenever henchmen it's slotted with uses damaging power. Some say chance is 17%/target that power hits. I'm not totally sure about that, but it does proc a lot.
Gaussian's Build Up has 5% chance to proc every 10 seconds while enforcers are having their Tactics power enabled.
Imo Achilles Heel > Lady grey >> Gaussians
I'm not sure whether Lady Gray proc is 71 points of damage while slotted on enforcers because I know similar proc slotted to drones only procced for ~50% of that amount. Even if it procs for full amount Achilles Heel gains upper hand if target of the proc is attacked by more than 35,5 DPS which isn't much. -
Quote:I've never paid over 22mil for lvl 50 Syntehtic Nucleoulus (acc/dam) Hami's and I've bought a few. Altough they aren't allways available I think I've never waited more than 1week to get 1-2 with that price. Imo it's not expensive at all.Originally Posted by spiritfox
I see that hammis and the full blood mandate in thugs are the primary differences there.
I don't like slotting hammis, they're always ridiculously expensive and my villainside population is small enough that when you CAN find them they cost ridiculous amounts, especially something like Acc/dam, so I go for recipes which are just easier to come by.
Is the 6% ranged defense really a 50% difference in damage? I like your changes except for the hammis, and without hammis I can't possibly fit soulbound and both pet uniques into the bruiser without them.
Plus there aren't any for sale at the moment and I couldn't afford them atm if there were =/
The amount 6% change in defence means to total damage is dependant on what percentages you are comparing. That was rough estimation because I didn't remember excat amount of defence one gains from Enforcer's Maneuvers. But I belive the estimation is pretty close..
Here's how it works: I've you've got a build with 0% defence that will get hit 50% of time (50% base defence + 0%). Adding 6% defence would decrease total damage by 12% (you compare 44% hit rate to 50% hit rate). But If you've got softcapped defence (45%) that will get hit only 5% of the time (50%+45%) and compare it to 6% lower defence (89%) you realize the latter will get git 11% of the time. That means the increase in incoming damage is 120% (5% vs 11%).
Every percent of defence will cut fully unmitigated damage equal amount. But the thing is you'll never see unmitigated damage. You'll allways see the change in damage you are/were taking. That's why the change from 40% def to 45% def (10% hit chance vs 5% hit chance) has equal effect to dmg that you are taking than going from 0% def to 25% (50% hit chance vs 25% hit chance). Or from 25%def to 37,5%def or from 37,5% def to 43,75%... -
Quote:Don't get me wrong. I like this build a lot more than the original. But I fail to understand why you completely overkilled s/l defence; it's 6% over softcap before Enforcers' buffs and meanwhile you don't softcap ranged/aoe.Originally Posted by spiritfox
First things first, take a look at the advanced totals. 51% smashing lethal defense, with 28%+ positional defenses. Thats as high as I was able to reasonably get it without sacrificing too much recharge.
I remember that you don't like to slot aura IO's to high tier henchmen or underslotted Enfeebled Operations. But IMO you would get better totals from your build with a few marginal changes no matter how much hated those slottings. I took liberty to edit your build a little bit.
If you compare you build to the edited version you can see that edited one will take roughly 50% less ranged and aoe damage, has ~0.16/sec better endurance efficiency, in cost of 1.3% decrease to global recharge and decreased but still softcapped s/l. Other changes are so minor I don't mention 'em here.
(I wouldn't take scorpion armour at all. Instead I'd aim to cap/almost cap all positional defences, but that's another issue.)
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Quote:LOLOriginally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
see what you did there?
I was so looking forward to the show that no doubt you could put on and now you're telling me you were just messin around? That's just not right.
Well I guess it could have been my fault as 12 of those 15 views are probably mine. It usually takes me 10 times to read through something and 2 more times after that to understand what I just read.
ohhhhhhh...
99.9% of the time, the scrapper forun is probably the most helpful and friendliest of them all. That .1% falls to me as I usually just post stupid useless junks like this one you've just read...
another useless post I guess -
Quote:I've actually got lvl 50 spines/fa and while she's really comparable to elm/sd what comes to killing endless amount of minions she simply cant compete against harder targets (IMHO). I just haven't felt like playing her for various reasons. But I can farm that toon if needed and of course there's also possibility of some "market farming"Originally Posted by MutantX_7
To each there own, but if I was strapped for cash and wanted something to help earn, I'd definately go with the Elm/SD first, then work on the Fire/MM and slot him once you've earned the infl. I've just been too lazy blue side to do neither in last months.
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Very very very expensive build which I'm afraid wouldn't perform well. I'm not that familiar with either thugs/traps that I could quickly make an example of another build. But here are some things that troubles me:
Your defence is low, only ~20% at every position. Yet you have even personal melee attack (in addition of 1-2 other attacks). Gang war has a terrible recharge. Enforcers have only 23% defence buff. Thug upgrades have unneeded extra slots that could have been used somewhere else etc etc.
I don't mean to offend you but you asked opinion. One thing I liked was slotting of Caltrops. But other than that, well it's expensive build. -
I recently got a couple of "test drives" of my friends EM/SD and tbh I was totally amazed of enormous aoe capabilities it has. I'm sure many of you are familiar with capabilities of aao saturated Shield Charge combined to 1-2 other good AoE attacks so I don't describe it any further.
The thing is that I've been levelling fire/ment blaster a short while. He's at low twenties atm. I thought he'd be able to cut through /8 spawn like hot knife through butter. But after I saw performance of em/sd scrapper I started to be more and more conserned about whether he really would be able to compete at least to some degrees with scrappers.
I've got build (in Mids) that has almost capped s/l and ranged def with pretty high recharge. The thing is that I've perhaps 20% of the founds of the build. (I've played more on the red side with my MM). So before levelling him and "deperately" acquiring needed founds I'd like to hear if any of you have experience of this type of blasters builds. Do you think they can be nearly as good for soloing/farming as many ot the scrapper builds? I don't mind if he isn't quite as survivable as scrapper would be but I'd like to be able to gain in damage and speed all that I loose in survivability.
Here's also the build in case someone feels like commenting it.
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Quote:I'd drop either Flight or Speed pool. Propably Flight because without IO's you anyway won't be able to softcap your build. But it's up to your taste.Originally Posted by Seipherwood
If i were to take Presence / Provoke, would it be wise to drop hasten and grab it?
*EDIT* Hmm whats this 2nd build thing i see at the Arbiter now? Can we make 2 builds now?
Yes we have two different builds nowadays. You can swap every 15 minutes between those at Arbiters. If you haven't used it yet you don't even have to respec. Just use it for your new build.. -
Here are some modifications to your build. I changed some slotting, but mainly chose chants for a few powers a bit differently. I believe this one will be much more endurance friendly.
I changed your patron pool to Mu Mastery. It's "common consensus" that because of -KB that electric Fences has it's generally the best patron pool for bots/?. It prevents knockbacks from your bots so mobs will stay in tar patch and burning batches.
I'd really recommend you to consider also taking presence pool and Provoke. It'll really help you to keep your bots alive. While in BG mode your resistance to damage is almost comparable to softcapped tankers and in general won't have any problems with tanking. I didn't make this change hence it's up to your decision if you want to swap some of your curreny pool to Presence.
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Quote:Thx for the reply. I can't argue with either of the issues you brought up. I actually already respecced and even edited a build a bit while respeccing. (Usually very clever decisionOriginally Posted by spiritfox
With how often I see things run from me for no apparent reason, I love being able to immobilize. More than once I've had an AV take off at about half damage and even after I clear around them they manage to seek out the closest enemy possible. Doing lower level AVs alone is hell sometimes, I've had 20+ minute AV battles because they run and run and run away, I've even reset encounters hoping that it will reset the AI enough to keep things in one place.
The added benefit is that with a decent ability to immobilize, you can worry alot less about AoE defense to handle those point blanks by parking whomever somewhere and standing about 10 yards away next to your bots. Then its just a quick sideways dash when its time for TG.
)I edited changes into previous post.
If I'm starting to experience problems you were describing I guess I have to respec once more and move those two additional slots into EF. -
Ok, I changed my build a bit. I think it's now even further adapted to my personal preferences.
Cons:
* Decrease in rng/aoe def (-1.25%/-0.9%) Now 39,5%/40.1% with the bubble
* EF still not stackable thrice when hasten is down
* Build looks even more abnormal than it used to
Pros:
* Additional taunting power
* 3.1% gain to s/l def. Now 40,7% with the bubble.
* Better order of power selections (thx to spiritfox for this)
* 5% increase to global recharge (67% average now with hasten)
* Minor increase in dps (~5/sec)
* Build looks even more abnormal than it used to
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Pps. Dont pay attention to order of slotting. I'm too lazy to change this in Mids. -
Quote:Builds are closer to one another than one would think at first glance. Differences are pretty much the ones you mentioned except I wouldn't really say my global recharge is slower if one takes hasten into consideration. Over long period of time my global recharge is ~61%.Originally Posted by spiritfox
I like the balance I got in this build. I've got just about the same defense numbers you've got (the discrepancy is more from slotting maneuvers and shadowfall for more def than I did) but my shadowfall resistance is a bit better, my global recharge is a bit higher, and my endurance recover is a bit higher. Slight performance improvements with a few changes that you might or might not like depending on playstyle. I took provoke earlier than you, with bots/dark I always want to start tankerminding as soon as I've got all my minions for BG, but for a 50 that doesn't much matter. I find that the late 20s is kind of the breakpoint for that, if I exemp lower and don't have full bots I'll never need provoke, but if I'm high enough level to have all my bots still I'll want provoke to let me handle the extra damage enemies start pumping out as the SO levels start to flesh out.
And then there's electric fences. This is one area where I felt your build kind of lacked (my opinion)
With my slotting, I've got 10 sec recharge and 35 second duration, which means that I can maintain a triple stack of fences on a single target, which is usually enough to hold an AV immobile. With your 12 second recharge and 32 second duration you're 4 second shy of a triple stack where I have 5 seconds padding. When facing a tougher AV, this can give you some breathing room. When I talked about performance differences, this was an example. 3 seconds duration and 2 of recharge being the difference between immobilizing an AV and not.
Take a look, see what you think.
What comes to order of power selections I'll pay attention to your comments when respeccing. This is my lvl 50 respec build and while I did try to make it "exemplarable" I didn't pay as much attention to it as to some other things.
Is immobilization of AV really needed? Tbh I haven't really used it or needed it so far against AVs. As long as they have been attacking me instead of running like headless chickens (which they haven't done so far) it hasn't made difference if they preferred to stay in melee or ranged. But I haven't actually faced many AVs because only Scirocco felt like any challenge and it was only because of tornados. So I got bored and stopped fighting 'em. Perhaps the ones I fought just happened to be easy ones.. Can you recommend some tough ones that I could easily face in a "sparring fight" in AE building. This is my 1st character that I've used to solo avs. I'm kinda newbie in CoH.
The more I think about it the more convinced I'm that while respeccing I won't put any additional slots to Charged Armor. One of those three slots will be for six slotting Fearsome Stare. It'll actually enhance my AoE def by 0.62%. The rest of 'em I'll propably use to either six slot Electric Fences(!) or for two additional Basilisk Gaze chants on fluffy. Probably I'll choose EF.
One thing I'd suggest you to try is slot end/rech/slow from Tempered Readiness instead of End reduction in Tar Patch. It's less than 1mil to test in and slot End red back if you don't like the change. But I'd be surprised if you dont.. You'll gain faster recharge, lose only 1ep/cast and double the time it takes from mobs to run outside Tar Patch. Btw do you know that res debuffs of two Tar Patches do stack? In practice 30s recast time of Tar Patch can improve your overall dmg output by ~10% when compared to 45s recast time.
Edit: Ok, Lord Recluse does cause some grey hair to me LOL. Looks like I just can't keep 4 bosses and him under control and then it's bye bye to bots and visit to hospital. L2p issue I guess.
Does he really allways summon those Executioners at the beginning of a fight as he did at every one of my three attempts? Does he also resummon 'em during the fight? I guess.. That guy is a challenge; to me at least. I shut me mouth
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Quote:Reg should be better that's true. But still it's doesn't seem to make any big impact. In matter of fact I haven't yet bought Miracle +recovery.Originally Posted by spiritfox
You're right. I didn't notice that hasten wasn't on in Mids and posted mine, thinking yours needed a rebuild to increase recharge. Sorry about that. Honestly then yeah the only thing I don't like about your build is the recovery rate, but I couldn't get mine above 2 eps recovery net either. Honestly the build differences are down to style.
Whats your opinion on end redux in the bots? Never been a problem?
During long fights I don't use Darkest Night or Charged Armour. Which helps a lot. In fact I'm considering to remove all slots from CA and use it as a mule for +3def IO. Have to think about it a it more, but it looks like I have almost allways CA detoggled anyway.
My build has 33% end rdx at prot bots. Iirc they have run out of end only while fighting Ghost of Scrapyard. I think I've actually dismissed and resummoned 'em once because of that.
In short: They seem to need small amount of end rdx but most of the time 33% is enough (in my build and my playing style at least). -
Quote:Enfeebled Operation is not fully slotted because I'm feeling I'm gaining more with those slots elsewhere. 3,75% global recharge is nothing (to me) compared ~+15rech % in HT. Especially because most of the other powers don't need it at all. 1.25 s/l would interest me but then I had to hurt recharge time in HT and slow/rech in tar path OR actually hurt my defences more than I'd be gaining to s/l. I did consider former option while making the build but the latter is deffinate No Thanks.Originally Posted by spiritfox
You didn't fully slot out enfeebled operation (worth it for the set bonuses), and considering you've got tactics and you aren't facing +4s you've got way too much accuracy in the protbots and battle drones. You fully slotted blood mandate in the battle drones which is terrible, you should never, ever not put a pet unique in your bottom tier minions. They just don't do enough damage to justify fully slotting, and the pet unique there would have let you fully slot out your protbot for defenses. Its true, you got 29 percent defense, but your protbots have weaker shielding, which affects every one of your bots AND you. You took howling twlight way, way too early in the build gimping you both teams and solo at lower levels, you don't need -regen until the 20s at the earliest and the rez isn't amazing without recall friend.
Drones don't have Blood Mandate because of +dmg. It's there because of +3,75 aoe and rng defense. I need those bonuses and will deffinately not slot it to either prot bots or A-bot. Otherwise I'd slote 'em with 3 Hami acc/dam, chance for Smash IO from Explosive strike and propably put both of Unique aura IO's also there. This way I'd free one slot from A-bot and prot bot. But I've failed to find a way to gain anything better with those two extra slots than the set bonuses BM is giving.
It's true that prot bots dont have ED capped bubbles, instead of 51% bonus (-diminishing return) they only have 45,5% bonus to bubble. If I recall correctly I lost 0,2-0,3% defence. You did notice that one of the hamis is Cytoskeleton that gives +def and end reduction? That can be easily replaced by common +def IO if you prefer it.
I agree that one can pick HT also later, but on the other hand I really don't need anything else at that lvl that I could have chosen. Autohitting aoe stun also is nothing to spit neither. Anyway IMO this one is more than any other thing matter of taste.
Tactics is there mainly for set bonuses. But while droids are fighting +4 or higher (+2 or higher to me) they do benefit from it. Some of my own powers (at least Taunt) also benefit from accuracy boost.
I know I've made a few "less traditional" choices while slotting but as a whole I have failed to find any way of slotting that would give me better combination fo things that I'm looking for: res/def aura uniques, Perma fluffy, dmg capped henchmen, good dmg slotting for A-bot, Stamina, aoe taunting power, combination of high (ok, mediocre) global recharge (hasten included in this case) and high personal defence. Also >95% speed reduction in rech capped Tar Patch and recharge capped HT is something I'm finding more than useful. These can be achieved with other pool selections that's for sure. But as far as I've seen with Speed pool the build is by far cheapest. I'm sure there are some ways to enhance build even with these pools I've selected and I'd be grateful for those suggestions. Can you show me in mids the changes you would be doing instead of commenting single powers please? Because as far as I see changes you mentioned would either decrease my defenses or slow recharge of the most crucial powers.
Fluffy is permanent with decent margin. You failed to take hasten into consideration.Quote:Originally Posted by spiritfox
But the truly damning thing is that fluffy isn't permanent. Perma'ing fluffy isn't really hard, a few more slots and maybe a tiny bit more global recharge could have done it. His massive point blank debuff and his heals (which have the normal radius, not the tiny ******** one they stuck you with) will heal you AND the bots a ton. With enhancement he will fully heal all your bots every time he fires his heal (which is pretty damn often).
What comes to fluffy I completely agree with you.
May I ask what are those things you were referring by the quoted phrase that you believe this build can't handle unlike your build??Quote:Originally Posted by spiritfox
Bots/dark is a very powerful combo, but the fact is that you aren't using it to its potential. If you slotted and setted out better you could spend just a bit more and have a build that can handle quite literally anything the game can throw at it.
I'm not saying my build can take anything from game. But so far I've soloed GM 5 times (Eochai x2, Ghost of Scrapyard x2, Deathsure x1). So far they have failed to kill me even once. I've also done RWZ challenge. These all of course without using any insps/temps. Actually I feel the question isn't whether GM/AVs can be soloed by bot/dm. It's more question of how fast they can be taken down. So far killing time's for GM have been from 8:20(Eochai) to 12min(Deathsurge). Tho GoS still took a tad over 20 mins thx to those darn scrapyarders. I have failed to find a spot where I wouldn't get constant adds into fights in form of scrapyarders. My average Pylon killing time is about 4:45 and 4:09 is my personal record (both without insps/temps). (I believe at least bots/traps is even faster than bots/dark hopefully some of you will post these killing times so we could compare different builds and primaries/secondaries at least under some spesific conditions..) I also don't even use Darkest Night anymore during GM/AV/Pylon fights because it's not neccssary. So actually I feel there is even some survivability reserve in my build.
If something, I'd need even better aggro management for situation where I'm attacked from many sectors and in many waves (like in Arcanaville's Scrapper challenge). I'm sure there still are some l2p issues what comes to optimal positioning my self/bots and also how to "train" mobs in narrower "cone". Perhaps I should really give a serious try to scrapper challenge now, because the one time I tried it I failed miserably.
I dont have time to check you build. But I'll do so later. If it seems as much better as you are describing perhaps I'll give it a try. But I have to confess I'm kinda sceptic about it because you seem to have failed to notice so many things in my build
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Quote:At least Mr Stamper and Gobinda are from 007. So probably also the rest of 'em(?) Can I have now my bonus points pleaseOriginally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Bonus points to anyone who recognizes more of the names than Odd Job and Jaws. =)
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I'd really suggest listening what brophog02 is saying. Tankedminding is not the only way of playing, that's for sure. But there hardly are any other more survivable ways for playing MM. And in fact I believe well built and played mastermind is one of the hardest AT to kill. I understand why you are saying you dont want henchmen taking any more damage. They are quite fragile. But the most efficient way to protect your pets is directing aggro on yourself and bodyguard mode helps you survive even GM attacks with ease. As brophog02 said one of the very few problems are huge radius aoes, especially autohitting ones. Another situation I find challenging are fights where you are being attacked from multiple directions in multiple waves. It gets difficult to keep fight under control and that's pretty important for tankerminding MM.
I'll make one demonstration of BG mode: Lets say you are facing two nasty AVs. Both are using attack that does 800 points of dmg before mitigation every 2 seconds. Sounds nasty. They would be two shotting most of your henchmen and three shotting you even with resists. Lets assume you defence against their attacks is 0%, meaning 50% of their attacks are going to hit you (this would be 5% with softcapped build). 800points/second would turn into 800 points every 2 seconds. Still enough to kill you in 2 seconds without heals/mitigation in 4-6 seconds with 40% resists. Lets assume they do most common dmg type; slashing and you have picked Charged Armour and have 40% slashing resist -> now you are only being hit 480 points every 2 seconds. Still nasty isn't it. You wouldn't survive it 10 seconds (without constant use of greens). Now lets assume you are fighting in BG mode which divides damage among you and your 6 bots -> you are now taking only 68,6 points of dmg every 2 seconds. That's actually no big deal. Your bots would take 80 points of dmg every 2 second if we assume they have 30% res against sl. That's nasty but it's still something you would be able to overcome by only using Twilight Grasp. In theory you can heal roughly 2800 points of taken (400 points of heal to you and 6 bots) and BG splitted damage every 4(-8) seconds with TG, that's 700 points/second. Of course in reality it's usually not possible because of small radius of TG. But on the other hand 700 points of heals/sec is not even needed in reality. Actually it's seldom that I even have to heal my bots while fighting GM. Mainly prot bots and dark servant are healing enough.
Here are some numbers to demonstrate differet forms and combinations of damage mitigation against even lvl opponent (The number is percentage from fully unmitigated damage that you are actually taking after mitigation):
0 def, 0 resistance: 50%
0 def, 50% resistance: 25%
softcapped build, 0 resistance: 5%
softcapped build, 50% resistance: 2,5%
0 def, 0 resistance, BG mode: 7,1%
0 def, 50 resistance, BG mode: 3,6%
softcapped build, 0 resistance, BG mode: 0,7%
softcapped build, 50% resistance, BG mode: 0,36%
For the comparison:
Tanker, softcapped to every position, capped (90%) resistances to every dmg type: 0,5%
Combination of 99,3% mitigation (not counting resists) and healing ability of 700/sec (100/sec/target) corresponds ~14300 unmitigated damage/second. Pretty crazy?
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Quote:Electric Fences is only Immob power that has -KB component on. That's great advantage with bots becauce they have bad habit of KBing mobs outside burn patches..Originally Posted by Knightslayer
Any particular reason everyone is going for Electric Fences and not Web Envelope (from Mace Mastery)?
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Quote:You managed to get really high defense numbers for bots/dark MM that's true. But I'm afraid that you'll run into a few problems with this build. I find a few things a little confusing if I may say so.Originally Posted by vernichterhelge
here is a build i made out of yours
its more def and less debuff but should do it well:
1st and foremost you have really built tankermind from yourself. With the (unbuffed) bubble from prot bot you are softcapped to ranged and aoe (46,9 and 52,2) and have also almost softcapped s/l (42,8). You also decided not to include +def or +res aura uniques into your build. And yet you don't have any means to keep agro on you which for bot/dm would mean Presence pool and taunting power. I'm afraid that even in "normal fights" like 0++/6++ spawns your A-bot will be dying. A lot. And the problem will be a much bigger (devastating) when fighting AVs/GM. I find this biggest drawback of your build. "Fixing it" would also require you to change one of your original pools to presence. Or to include every way to increase survivability of you bots in your build (unique aura IO's, different slotting of Shadow Fall, buffed Prot Bot bubbles and so on). Still I belive there's hardly any other way more survivable than playing in bodyguard mode with softcapped MM and henchmen (the latter is I'm afraid impossible with /dm)
Secondly original topic was about maximizing bot/dm aoe dmg. There are very few things buildwise more crucial than optimal slotting of A-bot. And that really means (at least IMHO) build up proc from Soulbound Allegiance set. I'd also use smashing proc from Explosive Strike set, but it's not that crucial. I'd personally consider once more to change slottings in A-Bot and Prot Bots. No matter whether you decide to take Presence pool or not. Think it this way:
If you slot A-Bot with 3xNucleolus acc/dam, def aura unique, res aura unique, and soulbound build up and Prot Bots with 2x def IO, and acc/dam+acc/dam/end (from Blood Mandate and Sovereign Right sets) your personal defence changes from 42,8/46,9/52,2 (sl/rng/aoe) to 46,5/41,2/46,5 AND all of your henchmen will gain ~8,75 def to every position and 10% resistance to every dmg type. In addition the dmg of A-Bot will be significantly(?) higher.
Third thing is quite low endurance gain (only 1.1 end/sec after toggles). Of course this can be solved at least partly by just detoggling Charged Armour, Tough and perhaps by avoiding Darkest Night at least to some extent.
Then few opinions of certain slotting:
Howling Twilight, I'd certainly want this power up as much as possible. Especially during AV/GM fights. Slot at least 2x Recharge IOs here.
Health, You really don't need +regen (+health). You have Twilight Grasp.
Twililight Grasp, are you sure you don't need +accu here even more because you don't have tactics.. +27 global accurace just isn't enough. If your debuff misses, you aren't gaining any heal either. And please notice that TG debuffs dmg by 7,5%, to hit 3,75% AND regen by 50%(!!). This is IMO one excellent power to use every time you don't have anything else to do against hard opponents.
Shadow Fall, I'd deffinately slot there at least +def and +def/res IO instead four slotting with Impervium armour. You'd actually gain defence to every position (from 0,25 in s/l to 1,5 in aoe) with this change
These are just my opinions and I'm talking about general performance of build. If you feel this build suits to your concept go with it and have fun!! But what comes to min maxing the performance I'd personally recommend some reconsideration as I pointed out.
My 2 cents. -
This is cheap build (<200m) that I've used to solo few GM's/AV's and that's also able to wipe spawns up to 2/8 pretty easily:
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200-250m more expensive (and somewhat better) version of the same build:
I've soloed Eochai twice, Ghost of Scrapyard twice and Deathrsurge once without using insps/temps. I used cheaper version of these two builds (except that Prot Bots are having the slotting of 2nd build and I also replaced +heal ToN enhancement in Twilight Grasp with chance for neg enhancement because one really doesnt even need as much heals as bot/dm can offer. In fact I havent even been killed by GM yet tho Scirocco had my head once.) I haven't used Darkest Night or Charged Armor during last four GM fights which helps a lot with endurance recovery. Tho Darkest Night is really nice debuff usually it's not needed and it's just better to use that ~0.4end/sec somewhere else..Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1416;709;1418;HEX;| |78DAA593DB4E13511486F7F440693B6D29E5D85268CBA1B4C85862483C252682261| |A26410982A036230C32D24E9B4E9BC89D0FE085261AAFBCF318DF00D1E843188DFA| |029EAFBCAEEBB0A1245E3A69FF6FF69ABDD7FAF7DA33FAAD595588DBA784D231533| |21CA7A81B4EDDAC952D7BDDAB1B37AC35E11342C45BD1E242A35CAED8DAC5CAF54A| |DD5A7312071E9D6E6C6C68B3466DABA85B865336A2E7EC4DB366DA756DEF26305FA| |994B485AA69AEAB747BD6AADBA6E3446830671AEB66CDD9B4AA511AEB866D551B25| |A36E55ECF899AAB5A61D28A637A4D7ED3E709883FF8E57C8ABE915BF0053C2F59DF| |19BE0F9C6F84168FB4958F4ECAFF2885E373DE922B4C718DD84401FE1124C5778BA| |4B99A00C0146DF4B05B10413DC0ABB70B7D31A55650408613FA13348E8F21176C13| |BDB6F0A6F9AF265A0F33E0E293E2ED1C35886127EE9C12F8B3326D9C31B4815949D| |080ED293F83400D6C54F3207FE5078400E5392C350312453873EB9C8EF67C2E417C| |265981491DB8B84A95A479011207446085D2AA127446883B4515E25A2E354D907A1| |980CC5CEC34D56AC40EE6E7914DDDCAC147729C55D4A733FF3DCC176C8D0CB195CB| |D0FC95D3A250EE02DB4A15FB6A19F36E81683922392D9AF024BE766687D6E1B1013| |9D9039214F23C1A711855052EE3B1924BB832A83F73DC63B1DE39E64B90BEFC0C19| |04C34C489629028234D659E51D5E1A78C278C178491C78CE784ABD09A515EE51EFD| |00A1A4187B4FC8F2EB99C75737297641C7D9A67B7C9A3CE4B04749913F42A3C902E| |135CC9B90F926EE52E8D03DC603C67D421CDC6AD2AD7693AC1CB61865468930B5C5| |D824AC82DB827C750B6C73EA2361A0F5B5C10F2E31F74F64BEF5890985227A6BCE7| |F5D3BEA5E1EFF8500E802CA22CA12CA32CA0ACA2ACA15946B284594E6ABFDD591A3| |68E818CA719413287770920F3FBB208A8A124209A344503A5062283D2871944728C| |DBFEFA7F99A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
IMO these are also pretty solid bot/dark aoe builds. Thx to hasten important powers like Tar Patch and Fearsome Stare will recharge fast as well as Howling Twilight for Big game hunting.
These are deffinately not the only solid options for bots/dm, but I do like these builds especially because they are so d**n cheap and yet perform pretty well.
What comes to maximizing aoe damage I'd recommend that you just make sure your A-bot is slotted with Build Up proc from Soulbound Allegiance, smashing dmg proc from Explosive Strike, is having >90% +DMG and enough +ACC. Then imo aoe dmg is more dependant on your tactics than anything else. It's crucial to learn how to get as many mobs as possible in burn patches and keep 'em there a few seconds. Use Tar patch and Electric fences a lot. I personally prefer to keep all the other bots except A-bot in BG mode but for him I select targets to make sure he's using aoe to slowed/immobilized mobs. -
First and foremost I give you thumbs up for a new idea. At least I haven't seen this kind of build yet. I have allways liked unusual usage of classes.
While I don't have enough experience with /traps that I can really comment how effective this build might be I wish you luck. I'm a bit sceptic whether random procs will give you enough additional crowd control to really legitimate Dom part. I'm sure "fender" role you can fill well enough.
I understand your idea is mainly use common IO's but I personally would still prefer to use cheap set IO and some frankenslotting. Without throughly checking your build I'm still pretyt sure you could save quite a few slots and propably(?) improve your build a bit while still maintaining very cheap label on it.
GL with your build, I hope it will be good enough to really fill DomFender role
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I also think it's among best powers in /dark.
It's excellent dmg mitigation tool if s**t is going to hit the fan (aoe autohit stun)
It can be used to negate alfa's, tho I personally use Fearsome Stare for this purpose.
-500% reg debuff is just awesome against hard targets like av's etc. -
Quote:Yes, those are the ones I'm talking about. It's popular survivability and dps test among scrappers.Originally Posted by Raterro
Simak,
I have not tried this build on the Rikti Pylon. Are you talking about the ones in the Rikti War Zone? If so I'll give it a go when I get back home. Currently I'm at a project site and will not get back until this upcomming week.
Pylons have 38343,75 hp, and their regen is 127,8 hp/s.
So if one is able to solo Pylon (which in itself is already good accomplishment to many AT) one can count dps with this formula: DPS= 127.8125+(38343.75/"killing time in seconds")
To be more accurate I should say effective dps, since most of MM builds will debuff Pylons regen, (diminishing 127,8.. part of formula) and debuffing resistance. But nevertheless this formula shows what's the dps that corresponds your ability to hurt Pylon.
Of course it's just one test in certain conditions and should be taken as such. But it's still very repetable way of testing toon.
My best time is 4:09, but usually I clock times in 4:30-5:30 range. I start the clock when I've run into spot where I want to stay. So tbh my 1st taunt has actually landed few seconds earlier but thats before any other power usage. -
If you are interested in trying extremely cheap build (<200m) that still can solo big game (GM's) while also able to do spawns of 0(-2)/8 with relative easy. I'd suggest trying something like this:
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1413;705;1410;HEX;| |78DAA593DB4E13511486F7B4949EA62DA5D0424BA11CDB52194B8C89A7C444D0C48| |449508220A8CD08838CB4D3A6D32672E70378A189C62BEF3CC6374034FA1026469F| |C0F395D7751D36B489974EDAFF9BBDF65E6BFF7BCD8C7E675E15E2EE59A1F4CC950| |DC729E986D330EB15CBDEF4E8C62D6B43788510C976B4B4D4AC54AAB676B97AB3DA| |B0369C54C7D4B9E6D696366FD4774ABA653815237AD1DE36EBA6DDD00E6E028BD56| |A595BAA99E6A64AB717AC866D3A4E84060BA6B169D69D6DAB16A5B16ED856AD5936| |1A56D54E9EAF591B5AC7667A537ADD1D008779F8EF7984BC5A1EF10B302B5CDF19B| |F095DDF183F08DD3F09CB5D87595D22E1A6993E822FC6E82704E2842BB05CE1E52E| |A54015028C81D70A620516B81576E1F6518EAA320284B09FD01B24F47909FBE09DE| |DB7846794EA8D41E7BD5C48F1F21671C62A6CE1971EFC7273C60C7B7807A582B213| |C1619A494A9C0140FAD01F1A0E710F32323A0E5B86384F097D7691DB2F84AB301B9| |1A78A8469939E202340E88D10FA54423C44E8867A51CE12D11C6DE585504C86622D| |B8C41A94EE97A5FBB94519EE4D867B33CA5D9CE6BECD70337D5027C159AEC463F23| |89A111D780F3D18943D18A4F3B9C5B0E48464F62B302BF273949FDF05C4442F544E| |C94791E2471185505A5A4CE3B1B3625865F0E9A7F8BC53DC992CF7E203381891854| |6B8500C0A8D4953632F68D7F1E78C678C578489A78C9784EBD0A149CE724F7E8250| |5A4C7D2464F9DD9CE637751F34C736DDB9E3E4218F3D4A8BE963349A2912DEC2BA8| |2AC57B84FA1230F188F180F094970AB49B7DA6DB272D462541865C2EC0E639BB00E| |6E8BF2252AB2CD59363DD4FED4E087CF7EE19FC862FBFB120A45F4F69AFFBAF6D48| |33AFE4B01D02594659415945594359475946B2837504A28AD3787D9911368E824CA| |2994D328F7709117BFB9208A8A124209A344507A506228719424CA1394D65F37A8F| |D5A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
200-250m more expensive (and somewhat better) version of the same build:
They aren't excatly the very best builds one can come up with bots/dark. But gain/inf is IMHO very good. (Tbh I feel the value of cheaper version is even better than that).Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1416;709;1418;HEX;| |78DAA593DB4E13511486F7F440693B6D29E5D85268CBA1B4C85862483C252682261| |A26410982A036230C32D24E9B4E9BC89D0FE085261AAFBCF318DF00D1E843188DFA| |029EAFBCAEEBB0A1245E3A69FF6FF69ABDD7FAF7DA33FAAD595588DBA784D231533| |21CA7A81B4EDDAC952D7BDDAB1B37AC35E11342C45BD1E242A35CAED8DAC5CAF54A| |DD5A7312071E9D6E6C6C68B3466DABA85B865336A2E7EC4DB366DA756DEF26305FA| |994B485AA69AEAB747BD6AADBA6E3446830671AEB66CDD9B4AA511AEB866D551B25| |A36E55ECF899AAB5A61D28A637A4D7ED3E709883FF8E57C8ABE915BF0053C2F59DF| |19BE0F9C6F84168FB4958F4ECAFF2885E373DE922B4C718DD84401FE1124C5778BA| |4B99A00C0146DF4B05B10413DC0ABB70B7D31A55650408613FA13348E8F21176C13| |BDB6F0A6F9AF265A0F33E0E293E2ED1C35886127EE9C12F8B3326D9C31B4815949D| |080ED293F83400D6C54F3207FE5078400E5392C350312453873EB9C8EF67C2E417C| |265981491DB8B84A95A479011207446085D2AA127446883B4515E25A2E354D907A1| |980CC5CEC34D56AC40EE6E7914DDDCAC147729C55D4A733FF3DCC176C8D0CB195CB| |D0FC95D3A250EE02DB4A15FB6A19F36E81683922392D9AF024BE766687D6E1B1013| |9D9039214F23C1A711855052EE3B1924BB832A83F73DC63B1DE39E64B90BEFC0C19| |04C34C489629028234D659E51D5E1A78C278C178491C78CE784ABD09A515EE51EFD| |00A1A4187B4FC8F2EB99C75737297641C7D9A67B7C9A3CE4B04749913F42A3C902E| |135CC9B90F926EE52E8D03DC603C67D421CDC6AD2AD7693AC1CB61865468930B5C5| |D824AC82DB827C750B6C73EA2361A0F5B5C10F2E31F74F64BEF5890985227A6BCE7| |F5D3BEA5E1EFF8500E802CA22CA12CA32CA0ACA2ACA15946B284594E6ABFDD591A3| |68E818CA719413287770920F3FBB208A8A124209A344503A5062283D2871944728C| |DBFEFA7F99A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
I believe Bots/Traps by Anshar Seraphim at 1st page is superior in performance compared to these builds especially when fighting against 2+/8 boss spawns. But I nevertheless feel this kind of bot/dark builds with hasten can hold their own spots as well..
Ps. Just out of curiosity: Have any of you tested that build against Rikti Pylon? How fast you can take Pylon down?