Very very very expensive build which I'm afraid wouldn't perform well. I'm not that familiar with either thugs/traps that I could quickly make an example of another build. But here are some things that troubles me:
Your defence is low, only ~20% at every position. Yet you have even personal melee attack (in addition of 1-2 other attacks). Gang war has a terrible recharge. Enforcers have only 23% defence buff. Thug upgrades have unneeded extra slots that could have been used somewhere else etc etc.
I don't mean to offend you but you asked opinion. One thing I liked was slotting of Caltrops. But other than that, well it's expensive build.
the main strength to thugs/traps is being able to softcap your defense to all your thugs, and it is not that hard at all. two defense io's in your enforcers, the defense to all pets proc and slot your ffg and bam, softcap. thats what makes the set imho
Hoo boy. Where to start.
- Bruiser should be six slotted, and the soulbound proc should be with him. Put one pet unique aura, soulbound proc, and four franken slots. With a Dam, Acc/Dam, and two Acc/Dam/End you get satisfactory endurance reduction with good accuracy and close to max damage. I mean, you've got an accuracy/recharge and damage/recharge in enforcers. Acc/recharge! You wasted 40 some odd points of enhancement there that could have let you slot it more efficiently.
- Caltrops is great for procs, but you're better off not six slotting it with procs and increasing the standard performance of the set, you sacrifice too much to proc out your traps as much as you did. Your equip powers should always be single slotted with End reduction, you'd do better to put those slots into stamina to increase its performance.
- The medicine pool is unneccesary. If you approach thugs from a tankermind perspective (and you should, else you'll be resummoning your arsonist fifty times per mission, and your bruiser about a third of that as he's your tank if you're not tanking) then you can handle a ridiculous amount of damage.
I don't have the calculations, but someone did it out with dark, and an enemy would have to be doing about 450-500 DPS (through your defenses) in order to overcome your regen if its all single target. With dark, its more like 1400, but with the small area regen from triage beacon you can still take more damage than most single enemies can ever approach dishing out, and you've got decent personal defense.
So lets look at mine.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Dmg(5), EdctM'r-PetDef(7)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(5), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(9), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(9), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(11), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(11)
Level 2: Caltrops -- Posi-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dam%(13), ImpSwft-Dam%(46)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal(15)
Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- ULeap-Stlth(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Call Enforcer -- BldM'dt-Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Achilles-ResDeb%(19), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(21)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(36), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(36)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 18: Provoke -- Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(36), Zinger-Taunt(46)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(21), RgnTis-Regen+(34)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(23), EndMod-I(23)
Level 24: Acid Mortar -- RechRdx-I(A), LdyGrey-%Dam(25), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(25), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg(37), Posi-Dam%(39), Achilles-ResDeb%(40)
Level 26: Call Bruiser -- S'bndAl-Build%(A), SvgnRt-PetResDam(27), BldM'dt-Dmg(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(34)
Level 28: Poison Trap -- Lock-%Hold(A), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29), Lock-Acc/Rchg(39), Lock-Acc/Hold(39), Lock-Rchg/Hold(43), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(46)
Level 30: Gang War -- C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(A), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(31), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(31), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33)
Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Seeker Drones -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(40), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(43)
Level 41: Trip Mine -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Web Envelope -- Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(48), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(48), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(48), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(50), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(50)
Level 49: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal-I(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 6% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 6% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 6% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 6% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 6% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 6% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 6% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 6% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 10% Defense
- 8.13% Defense(Smashing)
- 8.13% Defense(Lethal)
- 6.56% Defense(Fire)
- 6.56% Defense(Cold)
- 3.44% Defense(Energy)
- 3.44% Defense(Negative)
- 8.75% Defense(Melee)
- 6.88% Defense(Ranged)
- 7.5% Defense(AoE)
- 33% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 63.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 2.5% Enhancement(Held)
- 6% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 42.2 HP (5.25%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Confused) 2.5%
- MezResist(Held) 4.7%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.5%
- MezResist(Sleep) 5.25%
- MezResist(Stun) 2.5%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 7.45%
- 13.5% (0.23 End/sec) Recovery
- 40% (1.34 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 20% Resistance(Smashing)
- 20% Resistance(Lethal)
- 23.8% Resistance(Fire)
- 23.8% Resistance(Cold)
- 20% Resistance(Energy)
- 23.8% Resistance(Negative)
- 20% Resistance(Toxic)
- 20% Resistance(Psionic)
- 5% RunSpeed
Set Bonuses:
Blood Mandate
(Call Thugs)
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- 1.88% Defense(Fire,Cold), 0.94% Defense(AoE)
(Call Thugs)
- 5% Defense
(Web Grenade)
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 1.88% Resistance(Negative)
- 2.5% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Melee)
- 3.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.13% Defense(Melee), 1.56% Defense(Lethal), 1.56% Defense(Smashing)
(Triage Beacon)
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Combat Jumping)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Call Enforcer)
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
(Super Jump)
- 3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)
- 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
- Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
(Force Field Generator)
- 10% (0.34 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 9.04 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Provoke)
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
- 10% (0.34 HP/sec) Regeneration
(Stamina)
- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
(Acid Mortar)
- 12 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
(Call Bruiser)
- MezResist(Sleep) 2.75%
- 10% Resistance(All)
(Call Bruiser)
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- 1.88% Defense(Fire,Cold), 0.94% Defense(AoE)
(Poison Trap)
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 2.5% Enhancement(Held)
- MezResist(Held) 2.2%
- 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
- 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)
(Gang War)
- 5% Defense
(Gang War)
- Status Resistance 2.5%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 10% (0.34 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 10% Resistance(All)
(Maneuvers)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Seeker Drones)
- 12 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Trip Mine)
- 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Scorpion Shield)
- 10% (0.34 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 9.04 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Web Envelope)
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 1.88% Resistance(Negative)
- 2.5% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Melee)
- 3.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.13% Defense(Melee), 1.56% Defense(Lethal), 1.56% Defense(Smashing)
Code:
First things first, take a look at the advanced totals. 51% smashing lethal defense, with 28%+ positional defenses. Thats as high as I was able to reasonably get it without sacrificing too much recharge. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1407;725;1450;HEX;| |78DAA5935B4F135110C7CFB6947229B4A5944229972208082CD45BBC444D444D545| |631E0256A241B586013D836DD3611AF7C001F14353EF9EA5700F1C918A390F805D4| |27DF343118116F2FF5CCFC0F977737E9FFD7333B336766CE1EE3FAB18010B347841| |6EA9F325D77C430DD9C959DB69D319F614ED8A3C22F84886D5A4786F2D3D369471F| |9ECC4FB8D12DF6A3F9F1717D386B66DCF04967D2CA5A4E4E5FFF13184CA7A7F401C| |BCCD8CE041627EC9C63B96E981786E9D899FC9499B3D34E70DD77CCCABA93762671| |3C638FEA5B3632CC514B9539532B8BEB94BF573EA19E4291F82291129EAFC02AA36| |88551FC59A25DCC146DB8FBC47D8D1D1E314A1E00738CB287C063C60D19A521CAA3| |2D70BEC0210FA1E799B437889BD2C1ABA10AEF198E293ECD08188CCA01E02CE3B52| |C1A7517842FC9F96AE4B4FDC8A0F9BD9C3B154522F9A6146F4469073BBF91C1E5AA| |8B72F41742D321345DF552668888AA465E55033199A8427551F19EB7D8F611F8C0B| |82DBB0862276F109B27AA19AD2120C288CB446195289C418634C6E130FCD2218244| |9EC8058EA93EA5D1FC9387795E25D221AA1CA2731C53F30468E65A6FC95262AAC35| |8179B6ADFB143ED32A37589B11DA7D18E7E97E45CEA90D657D7CF0EF1357688634A| |CD985212534AE27BB923F7AA577BD5FFE5A8C41F64FF09AC3176FC428FBF196F7DD| |408A21A3E7968D1F883DF34AE02DF19CD2BC037C6B28C6A5227DF84930FCB59B4A8| |F36DC1D4EFCA8ADAE0E56D5BE4C0F605601EA53C67CC4ABF0EF5F177EC6453E72E6| |037B007EE7B190B5E21BAD4F97661A76E9C6F370EB61BC73C2FFD74D59A8EFBD08B| |DBD18B2BD38BDB91C2CD49E19244641F7DAA8F3EB496D8BC6D42C4D934B0D5D4C3A| |6C1CDDB25B4563619E4855CFFF52C06D6772B3D5726330E4911E7492ED2F212C965| |922B64BB4A728D6484A4F062233AB88F0ADA4F7280E420C93D72F2D33D2C2709905| |49054920449422411921A9238C95392C23F2E660341| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Thugs are 5 slotted with a pet unique (procs in them are largely worthless, they don't do enough damage to justify a build up and they don't accept any other procs that actually work). Enforcers have sacrificed a little accuracy and damage to get that achilles proc uptime, though I haven't actually found the proc yet so right now thats an acc/dam. Bruiser has the other aura and a soulbound proc, plus some franken slotting.
Provoke at 18, that can be pushed up but I don't suggest it, tankerminding as thugs really gets useful around the 20s. Stamina much earlier (why would you wait?) and slots for uniques or just heal IOs and Endmod IOs in both health and stamina. Two procs in acid mortar plus recharge and some additional -defense, I can get about 25 seconds of stacking acid mortars and PGtrap is down for five seconds out of thirty five.
Trip mines and seeker drones are an absolute godsend, traps without trip mines is like Shield defense without shield charge. Sure, you can still kill stuff, and still be soft capped, but its not half as much fun. I can drop twenty trip mines and have time to pull. Twenty trip mines does alot of damage. ALOT.
Gang war can actually be quite useful for chaos and taking the alpha as well, you can put one both recharge uniques and four slot with expedient reinforcement and you get five expedient bonus plus your 10% defense and 20% resistance.
Last, Patron pools. Mace is no contest, web envelope is a huge immob that you can slot out for melee defense bonuses. Open with seeker drones, then immob, then provoke, and your thugs can go to town while you sit next to the spawn dropping trip mines. Everything will die. Very, very quickly.
Take a look, see what you think. Some of your slotting can be chalked up to preference, but alot of it just doesn't work that well with thugs or traps.
Quote:
Don't get me wrong. I like this build a lot more than the original. But I fail to understand why you completely overkilled s/l defence; it's 6% over softcap before Enforcers' buffs and meanwhile you don't softcap ranged/aoe.|
Originally Posted by spiritfox
First things first, take a look at the advanced totals. 51% smashing lethal defense, with 28%+ positional defenses. Thats as high as I was able to reasonably get it without sacrificing too much recharge.
|
I remember that you don't like to slot aura IO's to high tier henchmen or underslotted Enfeebled Operations. But IMO you would get better totals from your build with a few marginal changes no matter how much hated those slottings
. I took liberty to edit your build a little bit.If you compare you build to the edited version you can see that edited one will take roughly 50% less ranged and aoe damage, has ~0.16/sec better endurance efficiency, in cost of 1.3% decrease to global recharge and decreased but still softcapped s/l. Other changes are so minor I don't mention 'em here.
(I wouldn't take scorpion armour at all. Instead I'd aim to cap/almost cap all positional defences, but that's another issue.)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1410;721;1442;HEX;| |78DAA593594F135114C76F370A744A5B4A2994B28380C0006E718D89A889CA28065| |CA2463281012629D3DA691371E503F8A068E293AF7E052A3C19631412BF80FAE49B| |2B46C4EDA59EE596125F6D32FF5FEF99FF3DF79C7BE76A570F2B42CC1D148EE0604| |2B7ED314DB733467AC6B4263C9A3E658E0BAF10225A8C8E8D64676692963A3A9D9D| |B2239BE287B29393EA685A4FD9A163D6B49136AC8C5AF8A30C27930975C8D053A63| |5C583A366C6326C3B44034DB7CC5436A167CCA4152878278CB43D6DA6E24752E6B8| |BA69214D1F376499B335505C173CCF3C42FEF21EF10530209CAB8C0F04F74742C92| |742F967C2AC7B63964BDC7590EF01A1F41E639E700D7C0EF6391D39CEF01802F542| |39E0C4D17530B8C89177BB4ED29C9213044523540C314E119E43B55C705E789A295| |F356CB39733086F843340A84C86CA3AC9F50266F9649B3EEE2FC8AD04D708954FA1| |9EB0A86CA05115230A89FCB27CFF6B2AB8F52DE30DE126941FE0959C015EBC2DC80| |81362902124372A94A239F12B84E624A1D72678C117E6448EF0599A5A751CD0214A| |E14D442E11992773F54346131579036A88CAD6A2DD14AA7945869A1542DB32610BE| |F7F0737BA0C1B52CB693DB5836488AD9321F65EE0BA4DFB0190BAF91FDE82A74E2E| |57F7873BFACD0BFC60AC13B6FEE4FE7E115E7AF0D07956FD3B270E1ABED39B8635C| |63742D32AE32B61056635CAE36EE4E30EC176B4C8BA5B02B451AD15849E7242AF8F| |30A030FC84DB5074BB3C86F645CADD91632C70B54F0873E0EB649FBB731B85BAB63| |3763076B27D1721E712A25B9E4D371F7F0F9F7B0F7F050B6050653E95AF441F5F90| |3EBE357DF7B94CBE3C6168AE5F7EB8FDDC6FBC78D3848851686873A89742C3C57B2| |61C6D14D2D0C5B9FEEBB7A814562B3B5D0E194740C4199473383C8F7201E522C62E| |A15C461943C92F6DCC0EECC682F6A0EC45D98772074D5EBC983E1405C58F5281124| |009A28451AA5162288F50F27F01BEF70020| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Quote:
Hmmm...well no you didn't offend me at all, I *did* ask for opinions. To cover some of the points you brought up:|
Originally Posted by Simak
Very very very expensive build which I'm afraid wouldn't perform well. I'm not that familiar with either thugs/traps that I could quickly make an example of another build. But here are some things that troubles me:
Your defence is low, only ~20% at every position. Yet you have even personal melee attack (in addition of 1-2 other attacks). Gang war has a terrible recharge. Enforcers have only 23% defence buff. Thug upgrades have unneeded extra slots that could have been used somewhere else etc etc. I don't mean to offend you but you asked opinion. One thing I liked was slotting of Caltrops. But other than that, well it's expensive build. |
1. Up until now, if I need more defense, I simply pop a luck. They'll never be a luck shortage so I figure I'll use them. Also the patron +resist shield further increases the usefulness of Bodyguard mode, so far I've been doing well with that. Still, I wouldn't mind more defense.
2. Gang War is in there simply to provide a place to put the pet IOs, I feel Gang War is rather useless for anything else against the type of enemies I plan to face. Any damage and they fall over. I went a little lax on def on my enforcers because between the pet IOs in gang war, the FFG, and their maneuvers, my pets are at 46% def to everything. Shots still get through occasionally, whiich was the reason for slotting the pet +res IOs as well.
3. I'll try your suggestion about one less IO in the upgrades. I don't like the idea from the outset, because during fights (especially in pvp) where I lose pets, bringing them out and back up to speed again, while still maintaining my output of traps, sucks a LOT of end. Still, I'll give it a shot. Thank you for your input.
Gaheris
"I know that will get glossed over and 6 months from now someone here on the forums will make a statement like "Remember back when walk was crashing the mapservers" and someone else will say "Oh yeah, I remember that" and I will drop my face into my palm and die a little bit more inside." - BABs
Hi spiritfox, your post is too long to quote so I'll simply try to cover some of your points in this one. And thank you for taking the time to respond.
1. Ok well, the first thing I should say is that I strongly disagree with trying a "tankermind" out of anything other than a bots/XX because, no matter how much def you can get from sets, you'll get more from your bots giving you a shield. I had provoke on my thugs/traps for over a year, I finally tossed it and don't miss it. I think a bots/FF or something like it would tank much more reliably. If I need defense I'll pop some lucks.
2. Why does the Bruiser need to be six-slotted? The whole idea is to maximize output with the fewest amount of slots, isn't it? You can't beat Hamidon Origins in this particular case, and I was fortunate to get mine to be 52+ . As far as the soulbound proc goes, it's only in there cuz I wanted 2 +HP bonuses from those sets, it's a playstyle preference mostly I suppose. I'll toss around the idea of getting the soulbound Proc over to him, though, but with the way he attacks it seems like a waste.
3. You mentioned that you felt too many procs takes away from the set, but really procs are what makes the /Traps set, aren't they? Slotting Poison Trap for anything other than procs and recharge is a real waste IMHO, the damage you're sacrificing to do so is considerable. 10 procs in 2 AoE auto-hit powers? Why would you pass that up?
4. I really do miss trip mine. Letting it go was just a playstyle preference, and because I really like to pvp. I'm too impatient to set them up before battle, and toe-bombiing when I'm plowing through +8 mobs becomes problematic even with max Defense. I miss seeker drones too, I dropped them for acrobatics as a pvp decision...if I find that I don't need it after all, I'll put one of these two powers back in.
5. Again, I hear the recommendation to only leave a single end rdx in my upgrade powers. I really don't like the idea but I'm willing to try it.
Anyways, thank you for your replies. I have a few things to think about that I didn't before, which was the whole point of the original post.
Gaheris
"I know that will get glossed over and 6 months from now someone here on the forums will make a statement like "Remember back when walk was crashing the mapservers" and someone else will say "Oh yeah, I remember that" and I will drop my face into my palm and die a little bit more inside." - BABs
Quote:
I see that hammis and the full blood mandate in thugs are the primary differences there. |
Originally Posted by Simak
Don't get me wrong. I like this build a lot more than the original. But I fail to understand why you completely overkilled s/l defence; it's 6% over softcap before Enforcers' buffs and meanwhile you don't softcap ranged/aoe.
I remember that you don't like to slot aura IO's to high tier henchmen or underslotted Enfeebled Operations. But IMO you would get better totals from your build with a few marginal changes no matter how much hated those slottings . I took liberty to edit your build a little bit.If you compare you build to the edited version you can see that edited one will take roughly 50% less ranged and aoe damage, has ~0.16/sec better endurance efficiency, in cost of 1.3% decrease to global recharge and decreased but still softcapped s/l. Other changes are so minor I don't mention 'em here. (I wouldn't take scorpion armour at all. Instead I'd aim to cap/almost cap all positional defences, but that's another issue.) Code:
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I don't like slotting hammis, they're always ridiculously expensive and my villainside population is small enough that when you CAN find them they cost ridiculous amounts, especially something like Acc/dam, so I go for recipes which are just easier to come by.
Is the 6% ranged defense really a 50% difference in damage? I like your changes except for the hammis, and without hammis I can't possibly fit soulbound and both pet uniques into the bruiser without them.
Plus there aren't any for sale at the moment and I couldn't afford them atm if there were =/
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Oh, I get that. Believe me I do. Tankerminding on my bots/traps is patentedly unfair, before provoke Id only died twice when I had just started a large spawn, and the protector bot bubbles started expiring and I lost both protectors, the *** bot, and then myself in about ten seconds. |
Originally Posted by Gaheris
Hi spiritfox, your post is too long to quote so I'll simply try to cover some of your points in this one. And thank you for taking the time to respond.
1. Ok well, the first thing I should say is that I strongly disagree with trying a "tankermind" out of anything other than a bots/XX because, no matter how much def you can get from sets, you'll get more from your bots giving you a shield. I had provoke on my thugs/traps for over a year, I finally tossed it and don't miss it. I think a bots/FF or something like it would tank much more reliably. If I need defense I'll pop some lucks. |
Thugs though, I take provoke because it cuts my average endurance use down to about a quarter of what it usually is, as I almost never have to resummon my arsonist. Better, my pets are all softcapped, so I can keep them tight to me. I've actually got a macro that casts provoke on target while also putting my arsonist in defensive goto so I can move him away from whatever is attacking him because it was out of range of the first provoke's radius when I pulled and a boss ended up in a burn patch.
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2. Why does the Bruiser need to be six-slotted? The whole idea is to maximize output with the fewest amount of slots, isn't it? You can't beat Hamidon Origins in this particular case, and I was fortunate to get mine to be 52+ . As far as the soulbound proc goes, it's only in there cuz I wanted 2 +HP bonuses from those sets, it's a playstyle preference mostly I suppose. I'll toss around the idea of getting the soulbound Proc over to him, though, but with the way he attacks it seems like a waste.
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| 3. You mentioned that you felt too many procs takes away from the set, but really procs are what makes the /Traps set, aren't they? Slotting Poison Trap for anything other than procs and recharge is a real waste IMHO, the damage you're sacrificing to do so is considerable. 10 procs in 2 AoE auto-hit powers? Why would you pass that up? |
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| 4. I really do miss trip mine. Letting it go was just a playstyle preference, and because I really like to pvp. I'm too impatient to set them up before battle, and toe-bombiing when I'm plowing through +8 mobs becomes problematic even with max Defense. I miss seeker drones too, I dropped them for acrobatics as a pvp decision...if I find that I don't need it after all, I'll put one of these two powers back in. |
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5. Again, I hear the recommendation to only leave a single end rdx in my upgrade powers. I really don't like the idea but I'm willing to try it. Anyways, thank you for your replies. I have a few things to think about that I didn't before, which was the whole point of the original post. Gaheris |
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I've never paid over 22mil for lvl 50 Syntehtic Nucleoulus (acc/dam) Hami's and I've bought a few. Altough they aren't allways available I think I've never waited more than 1week to get 1-2 with that price. Imo it's not expensive at all.|
Originally Posted by spiritfox
I see that hammis and the full blood mandate in thugs are the primary differences there.
I don't like slotting hammis, they're always ridiculously expensive and my villainside population is small enough that when you CAN find them they cost ridiculous amounts, especially something like Acc/dam, so I go for recipes which are just easier to come by. Is the 6% ranged defense really a 50% difference in damage? I like your changes except for the hammis, and without hammis I can't possibly fit soulbound and both pet uniques into the bruiser without them. Plus there aren't any for sale at the moment and I couldn't afford them atm if there were =/ |
The amount 6% change in defence means to total damage is dependant on what percentages you are comparing. That was rough estimation because I didn't remember excat amount of defence one gains from Enforcer's Maneuvers. But I belive the estimation is pretty close..
Here's how it works: I've you've got a build with 0% defence that will get hit 50% of time (50% base defence + 0%). Adding 6% defence would decrease total damage by 12% (you compare 44% hit rate to 50% hit rate). But If you've got softcapped defence (45%) that will get hit only 5% of the time (50%+45%) and compare it to 6% lower defence (89%) you realize the latter will get git 11% of the time. That means the increase in incoming damage is 120% (5% vs 11%).
Every percent of defence will cut fully unmitigated damage equal amount. But the thing is you'll never see unmitigated damage. You'll allways see the change in damage you are/were taking. That's why the change from 40% def to 45% def (10% hit chance vs 5% hit chance) has equal effect to dmg that you are taking than going from 0% def to 25% (50% hit chance vs 25% hit chance). Or from 25%def to 37,5%def or from 37,5% def to 43,75%...
Ok here is that I thought up. Money issues aside, for a toon that wants to excel in PvE and occasionally drop into a PvP zone, what do you think? I'm kind of on the fence as far as Acrobatics go, it was a pvp choice, I dont' need it in PvE. What to replace it with if I toss it, though?
MaikaMan
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
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Level 50 Natural Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs -- S'bndAl-Build%(A), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), S'bndAl-Dmg(9), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(9), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(A), GravAnch-Hold%(15), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(15), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(31), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 2: Caltrops -- JavVoll-Dam%(A), Erad-%Dam(3), Sciroc-Dam%(3), Oblit-%Dam(5), Armgdn-Dam%(5), Posi-Dam%(7)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- Panac-Heal/EndRedux(A), Panac-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Panac-Heal/Rchg(29), Panac-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(29), Panac-Heal(33)
Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 10: Acid Mortar -- HO:Lyso(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(11), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(19), LdyGrey-%Dam(25), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(31), JavVoll-Dam%(31)
Level 12: Call Enforcer -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Cyto(13), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(13), S'bndAl-Dmg/EndRdx(17), S'bndAl-Acc/Rchg(17), Achilles-ResDeb%(19)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(34), Zephyr-ResKB(42)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- SW-Def/EndRdx(A), SW-Def/Rchg(21), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Krma-ResKB(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 22: Aid Self -- Panac-Heal/EndRedux(A), Panac-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Panac-Heal/Rchg(34), Panac-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(36), Panac-Heal(40), IntRdx-I(46)
Level 24: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 26: Call Bruiser -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(27), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(33)
Level 28: Poison Trap -- RechRdx-I(A), UbrkCons-Dam%(34), NrncSD-Dam%(37), G'Wdw-Dam%(39), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(39), GladNet-Dam%(40)
Level 30: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 35: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 38: Gang War -- EdctM'r-PetDef(A), SvgnRt-PetResDam(39), C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(43), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(46)
Level 41: Bile Spray -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(43), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Knockout Blow -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(45), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(45), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Spirit Shark Jaws -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Dmg(48), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(48), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Shark Skin -- GA-ResDam(A), GA-End/Res(50), GA-Res/Rech/End(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy