how to get as much as possible aoemdg out of a robo/dm MM?
By
Eek a Mouse,
Posted on: 2009-11-21 06:34 in Masterminds
Grab Electric Fences immob from the Mu Epic, immob something, whack down a Tar Patch and let the Assault Bot do what he does best.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
|
i was more intrested in a build for it
with som egreat resis and good amount of def
made self one but didnt get mu into it
Helge corr lvl 50 rad/cold
Helge2 corr lvl 50 ice/rad
Techbothelge MM lvl 50 robo/dark
Helge Mauz def lvl 50 emp/ele
illuhelge troller lvl 50 illu/rad
Wiederbelebter helge nk lvl 50 bs/reg
Maennerschreack nightwidow lvl 44
Quantenjaeger ws lvl 3
Quote:
Sorry my reply was a bit flippant, I was in a rush |
Originally Posted by vernichterhelge
i was more intrested in a build for it
|
Unfortunately although I know Bots quite well I don't know /Dark much so can't help much further. The only thing I can say is that an immob with -kb is an absolute godsend, I played my Bots/FF for ages without Electric Fences, then as soon as I respecced I felt like a god!
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
|
An Immob is good, and Mu Mastery has the best overall Immob.
Leadership is a quick way to get some extra damage. Just get assault and/or tactics.
Why not put a proc in Fearsome Stare? You're going to be using it all the time, anyway.
Make good use of Tar Patch in order to help lower enemy resistance.
Your secondary is your best means to keep your pets alive and well, so use it the best you can in order to keep from having to resummon them often, which will lower DPS.
This is cheap build (<200m) that I've used to solo few GM's/AV's and that's also able to wipe spawns up to 2/8 pretty easily:
Code:
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200-250m more expensive (and somewhat better) version of the same build:
Code:
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IMO these are also pretty solid bot/dark aoe builds. Thx to hasten important powers like Tar Patch and Fearsome Stare will recharge fast as well as Howling Twilight for Big game hunting.
These are deffinately not the only solid options for bots/dm, but I do like these builds especially because they are so d**n cheap and yet perform pretty well.
What comes to maximizing aoe damage I'd recommend that you just make sure your A-bot is slotted with Build Up proc from Soulbound Allegiance, smashing dmg proc from Explosive Strike, is having >90% +DMG and enough +ACC. Then imo aoe dmg is more dependant on your tactics than anything else. It's crucial to learn how to get as many mobs as possible in burn patches and keep 'em there a few seconds. Use Tar patch and Electric fences a lot. I personally prefer to keep all the other bots except A-bot in BG mode but for him I select targets to make sure he's using aoe to slowed/immobilized mobs.
here is a build i made out of yours
its more def and less debuff but should do it well:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1,601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
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Level 1: Battle Drones BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(5), BldM'dt-Acc:50(5), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(7)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(40), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), Dct'dW-Heal:50(43), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(43)
Level 2: Tar Patch RechRdx-I:50(A), Slow-I:50(23), Slow-I:50(25), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 4: Darkest Night SipInsght-ToHitDeb:50(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb:50(7), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg:50(11), SipInsght-%ToHit:50(11), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34)
Level 6: Equip Robot EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(9), Zephyr-Travel:50(9)
Level 10: Howling Twilight RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 12: Protector Bots BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(13), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), BldM'dt-Acc:50(15), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(17)
Level 14: Super Jump Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(17)
Level 16: Hurdle Jump-I:50(A)
Level 18: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(19), Mrcl-Heal:40(19)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-EndMod:50(A), P'Shift-End%:50(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(33), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(34)
Level 22: Shadow Fall RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(25), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(27), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(37)
Level 24: Fearsome Stare Abys-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear:50(34), Abys-Acc/EndRdx:50(46), Abys-Dam%:50(48), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg:50(48)
Level 26: Assault Bot BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(27), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), BldM'dt-Acc:50(33), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(33)
Level 28: Kick Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough RctvArm-EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam:40(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(31)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 35: Weave RedFtn-Def:50(A), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(36)
Level 38: Dark Servant SipInsght-ToHitDeb:50(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb:50(39), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg:50(39), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), SipInsght-%ToHit:50(40)
Level 41: Charged Armor RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(42)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob:50(45), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx:50(45), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng:50(45), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg:50(46), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob:50(46)
Level 47: Maneuvers RedFtn-Def:50(A), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(48), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(50), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(50)
Level 49: Assault EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
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Set Bonus Totals:
4% DamageBuff(Smashing)
4% DamageBuff(Lethal)
4% DamageBuff(Fire)
4% DamageBuff(Cold)
4% DamageBuff(Energy)
4% DamageBuff(Negative)
4% DamageBuff(Toxic)
4% DamageBuff(Psionic)
18,3% Defense(Smashing)
18,3% Defense(Lethal)
19,6% Defense(Fire)
19,6% Defense(Cold)
15,5% Defense(Energy)
15,5% Defense(Negative)
3% Defense(Psionic)
13% Defense(Melee)
22,4% Defense(Ranged)
27,7% Defense(AoE)
27% Enhancement(Accuracy)
2,75% Enhancement(Terrorized)
4% Enhancement(Heal)
3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
15% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
13% FlySpeed
30,1 HP (3,75%) HitPoints
13% JumpHeight
13% JumpSpeed
Knockback (Mag -8)
Knockup (Mag -8)
MezResist(Immobilize) 7,7%
MezResist(Stun) 4,95%
MezResist(Terrorized) 2,2%
9,5% (0,16 End/sec) Recovery
3,78% Resistance(Fire)
3,78% Resistance(Cold)
1,88% Resistance(Negative)
1,26% Resistance(Toxic)
1,26% Resistance(Psionic)
13% RunSpeed
4% XPDebtProtection
Code:
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Helge corr lvl 50 rad/cold
Helge2 corr lvl 50 ice/rad
Techbothelge MM lvl 50 robo/dark
Helge Mauz def lvl 50 emp/ele
illuhelge troller lvl 50 illu/rad
Wiederbelebter helge nk lvl 50 bs/reg
Maennerschreack nightwidow lvl 44
Quantenjaeger ws lvl 3
Quote:
You managed to get really high defense numbers for bots/dark MM that's true. But I'm afraid that you'll run into a few problems with this build. I find a few things a little confusing if I may say so.|
Originally Posted by vernichterhelge
here is a build i made out of yours
its more def and less debuff but should do it well: |
1st and foremost you have really built tankermind from yourself. With the (unbuffed) bubble from prot bot you are softcapped to ranged and aoe (46,9 and 52,2) and have also almost softcapped s/l (42,8). You also decided not to include +def or +res aura uniques into your build. And yet you don't have any means to keep agro on you which for bot/dm would mean Presence pool and taunting power. I'm afraid that even in "normal fights" like 0++/6++ spawns your A-bot will be dying. A lot. And the problem will be a much bigger (devastating) when fighting AVs/GM. I find this biggest drawback of your build. "Fixing it" would also require you to change one of your original pools to presence. Or to include every way to increase survivability of you bots in your build (unique aura IO's, different slotting of Shadow Fall, buffed Prot Bot bubbles and so on). Still I belive there's hardly any other way more survivable than playing in bodyguard mode with softcapped MM and henchmen (the latter is I'm afraid impossible with /dm)
Secondly original topic was about maximizing bot/dm aoe dmg. There are very few things buildwise more crucial than optimal slotting of A-bot. And that really means (at least IMHO) build up proc from Soulbound Allegiance set. I'd also use smashing proc from Explosive Strike set, but it's not that crucial. I'd personally consider once more to change slottings in A-Bot and Prot Bots. No matter whether you decide to take Presence pool or not. Think it this way:
If you slot A-Bot with 3xNucleolus acc/dam, def aura unique, res aura unique, and soulbound build up and Prot Bots with 2x def IO, and acc/dam+acc/dam/end (from Blood Mandate and Sovereign Right sets) your personal defence changes from 42,8/46,9/52,2 (sl/rng/aoe) to 46,5/41,2/46,5 AND all of your henchmen will gain ~8,75 def to every position and 10% resistance to every dmg type. In addition the dmg of A-Bot will be significantly(?) higher.
Third thing is quite low endurance gain (only 1.1 end/sec after toggles). Of course this can be solved at least partly by just detoggling Charged Armour, Tough and perhaps by avoiding Darkest Night at least to some extent.
Then few opinions of certain slotting:
Howling Twilight, I'd certainly want this power up as much as possible. Especially during AV/GM fights. Slot at least 2x Recharge IOs here.
Health, You really don't need +regen (+health). You have Twilight Grasp.
Twililight Grasp, are you sure you don't need +accu here even more because you don't have tactics.. +27 global accurace just isn't enough. If your debuff misses, you aren't gaining any heal either. And please notice that TG debuffs dmg by 7,5%, to hit 3,75% AND regen by 50%(!!). This is IMO one excellent power to use every time you don't have anything else to do against hard opponents.
Shadow Fall, I'd deffinately slot there at least +def and +def/res IO instead four slotting with Impervium armour. You'd actually gain defence to every position (from 0,25 in s/l to 1,5 in aoe) with this change
These are just my opinions and I'm talking about general performance of build. If you feel this build suits to your concept go with it and have fun!! But what comes to min maxing the performance I'd personally recommend some reconsideration as I pointed out.
My 2 cents.
Quote:
No offense intended, but I'd never use either of those builds. |
Originally Posted by Simak
This is cheap build (<200m) that I've used to solo few GM's/AV's and that's also able to wipe spawns up to 2/8 pretty easily:
200-250m more expensive (and somewhat better) version of the same build: . |
You didn't fully slot out enfeebled operation (worth it for the set bonuses), and considering you've got tactics and you aren't facing +4s you've got way too much accuracy in the protbots and battle drones. You fully slotted blood mandate in the battle drones which is terrible, you should never, ever not put a pet unique in your bottom tier minions. They just don't do enough damage to justify fully slotting, and the pet unique there would have let you fully slot out your protbot for defenses. Its true, you got 29 percent defense, but your protbots have weaker shielding, which affects every one of your bots AND you. You took howling twlight way, way too early in the build gimping you both teams and solo at lower levels, you don't need -regen until the 20s at the earliest and the rez isn't amazing without recall friend.
But the truly damning thing is that fluffy isn't permanent. Perma'ing fluffy isn't really hard, a few more slots and maybe a tiny bit more global recharge could have done it. His massive point blank debuff and his heals (which have the normal radius, not the tiny ******** one they stuck you with) will heal you AND the bots a ton. With enhancement he will fully heal all your bots every time he fires his heal (which is pretty damn often).
Bots/dark is a very powerful combo, but the fact is that you aren't using it to its potential. If you slotted and setted out better you could spend just a bit more and have a build that can handle quite literally anything the game can throw at it.
My build makes one concession to expense, and thats the LOTGs. Simply put, I think they're more than worth it.
My build is centered around a dark tankermind perspective. You stand face to face with your bots parked just out of PBAoE range, you have bodyguard and about 32% defense, enough to stand toe to toe with GMs. Fluffy stands right next to you, and between his heals, his debuffs, your debuffs, and your heals, you are softcapped defensively with massive healing going on. Tar Patch will keep anything not being knocked back or resistant pretty immobile, but if you're high enough for electric fences everythings staying where you tell it to.
The non protector bots have about 30% defenses, you've got more than 30% defenses and 43% resistance to a few types, the pets have decent resists as well. You've got taunt to keep things on you, and enough -tohit to effectively softcap yourself against anything that isn't an AV, AVs sadly will turn your Tohit debuffs into practically nothing, but thats what bodyguard and healing are for.
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Actually, my bot/dark runs with about 25-30ish defense to the three positions and when i lay all my debuffs down, Darkest Night, Fearsome Stare, with Fluffy standing next to the target, the AV/GM has the lowest chance to hit be possible for their mob class.
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Originally Posted by spiritfox
The non protector bots have about 30% defenses, you've got more than 30% defenses and 43% resistance to a few types, the pets have decent resists as well. You've got taunt to keep things on you, and enough -tohit to effectively softcap yourself against anything that isn't an AV, AVs sadly will turn your Tohit debuffs into practically nothing, but thats what bodyguard and healing are for. |
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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Enfeebled Operation is not fully slotted because I'm feeling I'm gaining more with those slots elsewhere. 3,75% global recharge is nothing (to me) compared ~+15rech % in HT. Especially because most of the other powers don't need it at all. 1.25 s/l would interest me but then I had to hurt recharge time in HT and slow/rech in tar path OR actually hurt my defences more than I'd be gaining to s/l. I did consider former option while making the build but the latter is deffinate No Thanks.|
Originally Posted by spiritfox
You didn't fully slot out enfeebled operation (worth it for the set bonuses), and considering you've got tactics and you aren't facing +4s you've got way too much accuracy in the protbots and battle drones. You fully slotted blood mandate in the battle drones which is terrible, you should never, ever not put a pet unique in your bottom tier minions. They just don't do enough damage to justify fully slotting, and the pet unique there would have let you fully slot out your protbot for defenses. Its true, you got 29 percent defense, but your protbots have weaker shielding, which affects every one of your bots AND you. You took howling twlight way, way too early in the build gimping you both teams and solo at lower levels, you don't need -regen until the 20s at the earliest and the rez isn't amazing without recall friend.
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Drones don't have Blood Mandate because of +dmg. It's there because of +3,75 aoe and rng defense. I need those bonuses and will deffinately not slot it to either prot bots or A-bot. Otherwise I'd slote 'em with 3 Hami acc/dam, chance for Smash IO from Explosive strike and propably put both of Unique aura IO's also there. This way I'd free one slot from A-bot and prot bot. But I've failed to find a way to gain anything better with those two extra slots than the set bonuses BM is giving.
It's true that prot bots dont have ED capped bubbles, instead of 51% bonus (-diminishing return) they only have 45,5% bonus to bubble. If I recall correctly I lost 0,2-0,3% defence. You did notice that one of the hamis is Cytoskeleton that gives +def and end reduction? That can be easily replaced by common +def IO if you prefer it.
I agree that one can pick HT also later, but on the other hand I really don't need anything else at that lvl that I could have chosen. Autohitting aoe stun also is nothing to spit neither. Anyway IMO this one is more than any other thing matter of taste.
Tactics is there mainly for set bonuses. But while droids are fighting +4 or higher (+2 or higher to me) they do benefit from it. Some of my own powers (at least Taunt) also benefit from accuracy boost.
I know I've made a few "less traditional" choices while slotting but as a whole I have failed to find any way of slotting that would give me better combination fo things that I'm looking for: res/def aura uniques, Perma fluffy, dmg capped henchmen, good dmg slotting for A-bot, Stamina, aoe taunting power, combination of high (ok, mediocre) global recharge (hasten included in this case) and high personal defence. Also >95% speed reduction in rech capped Tar Patch and recharge capped HT is something I'm finding more than useful. These can be achieved with other pool selections that's for sure. But as far as I've seen with Speed pool the build is by far cheapest. I'm sure there are some ways to enhance build even with these pools I've selected and I'd be grateful for those suggestions. Can you show me in mids the changes you would be doing instead of commenting single powers please? Because as far as I see changes you mentioned would either decrease my defenses or slow recharge of the most crucial powers.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spiritfox
But the truly damning thing is that fluffy isn't permanent. Perma'ing fluffy isn't really hard, a few more slots and maybe a tiny bit more global recharge could have done it. His massive point blank debuff and his heals (which have the normal radius, not the tiny ******** one they stuck you with) will heal you AND the bots a ton. With enhancement he will fully heal all your bots every time he fires his heal (which is pretty damn often).
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What comes to fluffy I completely agree with you.
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Originally Posted by spiritfox
Bots/dark is a very powerful combo, but the fact is that you aren't using it to its potential. If you slotted and setted out better you could spend just a bit more and have a build that can handle quite literally anything the game can throw at it.
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I'm not saying my build can take anything from game. But so far I've soloed GM 5 times (Eochai x2, Ghost of Scrapyard x2, Deathsure x1). So far they have failed to kill me even once. I've also done RWZ challenge. These all of course without using any insps/temps. Actually I feel the question isn't whether GM/AVs can be soloed by bot/dm. It's more question of how fast they can be taken down. So far killing time's for GM have been from 8:20(Eochai) to 12min(Deathsurge). Tho GoS still took a tad over 20 mins thx to those darn scrapyarders. I have failed to find a spot where I wouldn't get constant adds into fights in form of scrapyarders. My average Pylon killing time is about 4:45 and 4:09 is my personal record (both without insps/temps). (I believe at least bots/traps is even faster than bots/dark hopefully some of you will post these killing times so we could compare different builds and primaries/secondaries at least under some spesific conditions..) I also don't even use Darkest Night anymore during GM/AV/Pylon fights because it's not neccssary. So actually I feel there is even some survivability reserve in my build.
If something, I'd need even better aggro management for situation where I'm attacked from many sectors and in many waves (like in Arcanaville's Scrapper challenge). I'm sure there still are some l2p issues what comes to optimal positioning my self/bots and also how to "train" mobs in narrower "cone". Perhaps I should really give a serious try to scrapper challenge now, because the one time I tried it I failed miserably.
I dont have time to check you build. But I'll do so later. If it seems as much better as you are describing perhaps I'll give it a try. But I have to confess I'm kinda sceptic about it because you seem to have failed to notice so many things in my build
Quote:
You're right. I didn't notice that hasten wasn't on in Mids and posted mine, thinking yours needed a rebuild to increase recharge. Sorry about that. Honestly then yeah the only thing I don't like about your build is the recovery rate, but I couldn't get mine above 2 eps recovery net either. Honestly the build differences are down to style.|
Originally Posted by Simak
Enfeebled Operation is not fully slotted because I'm feeling I'm gaining more with those slots elsewhere. 3,75% global recharge is nothing (to me) compared ~+15rech % in HT. Especially because most of the other powers don't need it at all. 1.25 s/l would interest me but then I had to hurt recharge time in HT and slow/rech in tar path OR actually hurt my defences more than I'd be gaining to s/l. I did consider former option while making the build but the latter is deffinate No Thanks.
Drones don't have Blood Mandate because of +dmg. It's there because of +3,75 aoe and rng defense. I need those bonuses and will deffinately not slot it to either prot bots or A-bot. Otherwise I'd slote 'em with 3 Hami acc/dam, chance for Smash IO from Explosive strike and propably put both of Unique aura IO's also there. This way I'd free one slot from A-bot and prot bot. But I've failed to find a way to gain anything better with those two extra slots than the set bonuses BM is giving. It's true that prot bots dont have ED capped bubbles, instead of 51% bonus (-diminishing return) they only have 45,5% bonus to bubble. If I recall correctly I lost 0,2-0,3% defence. You did notice that one of the hamis is Cytoskeleton that gives +def and end reduction? That can be easily replaced by common +def IO if you prefer it. I agree that one can pick HT also later, but on the other hand I really don't need anything else at that lvl that I could have chosen. Autohitting aoe stun also is nothing to spit neither. Anyway IMO this one is more than any other thing matter of taste. Tactics is there mainly for set bonuses. But while droids are fighting +4 or higher (+2 or higher to me) they do benefit from it. Some of my own powers (at least Taunt) also benefit from accuracy boost. I know I've made a few "less traditional" choices while slotting but as a whole I have failed to find any way of slotting that would give me better combination fo things that I'm looking for: res/def aura uniques, Perma fluffy, dmg capped henchmen, good dmg slotting for A-bot, Stamina, aoe taunting power, combination of high (ok, mediocre) global recharge (hasten included in this case) and high personal defence. Also >95% speed reduction in rech capped Tar Patch and recharge capped HT is something I'm finding more than useful. These can be achieved with other pool selections that's for sure. But as far as I've seen with Speed pool the build is by far cheapest. I'm sure there are some ways to enhance build even with these pools I've selected and I'd be grateful for those suggestions. Can you show me in mids the changes you would be doing instead of commenting single powers please? Because as far as I see changes you mentioned would either decrease my defenses or slow recharge of the most crucial powers. Fluffy is permanent with decent margin. You failed to take hasten into consideration. What comes to fluffy I completely agree with you. May I ask what are those things you were referring by the quoted phrase that you believe this build can't handle unlike your build?? I'm not saying my build can take anything from game. But so far I've soloed GM 5 times (Eochai x2, Ghost of Scrapyard x2, Deathsure x1). So far they have failed to kill me even once. I've also done RWZ challenge. These all of course without using any insps/temps. Actually I feel the question isn't whether GM/AVs can be soloed by bot/dm. It's more question of how fast they can be taken down. So far killing time's for GM have been from 8:20(Eochai) to 12min(Deathsurge). Tho GoS still took a tad over 20 mins thx to those darn scrapyarders. I have failed to find a spot where I wouldn't get constant adds into fights in form of scrapyarders. My average Pylon killing time is about 4:45 and 4:09 is my personal record (both without insps/temps). (I believe at least bots/traps is even faster than bots/dark hopefully some of you will post these killing times so we could compare different builds and primaries/secondaries at least under some spesific conditions..) I also don't even use Darkest Night anymore during GM/AV/Pylon fights because it's not neccssary. So actually I feel there is even some survivability reserve in my build. If something, I'd need even better aggro management for situation where I'm attacked from many sectors and in many waves (like in Arcanaville's Scrapper challenge). I'm sure there still are some l2p issues what comes to optimal positioning my self/bots and also how to "train" mobs in narrower "cone". Perhaps I should really give a serious try to scrapper challenge now, because the one time I tried it I failed miserably. I dont have time to check you build. But I'll do so later. If it seems as much better as you are describing perhaps I'll give it a try. But I have to confess I'm kinda sceptic about it because you seem to have failed to notice so many things in my build |
Whats your opinion on end redux in the bots? Never been a problem?
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Reg should be better that's true. But still it's doesn't seem to make any big impact. In matter of fact I haven't yet bought Miracle +recovery.|
Originally Posted by spiritfox
You're right. I didn't notice that hasten wasn't on in Mids and posted mine, thinking yours needed a rebuild to increase recharge. Sorry about that. Honestly then yeah the only thing I don't like about your build is the recovery rate, but I couldn't get mine above 2 eps recovery net either. Honestly the build differences are down to style.
Whats your opinion on end redux in the bots? Never been a problem? |
During long fights I don't use Darkest Night or Charged Armour. Which helps a lot. In fact I'm considering to remove all slots from CA and use it as a mule for +3def IO. Have to think about it a it more, but it looks like I have almost allways CA detoggled anyway.
My build has 33% end rdx at prot bots. Iirc they have run out of end only while fighting Ghost of Scrapyard. I think I've actually dismissed and resummoned 'em once because of that.
In short: They seem to need small amount of end rdx but most of the time 33% is enough (in my build and my playing style at least).
Quote:
Take a check at this|
Originally Posted by Simak
Reg should be better that's true. But still it's doesn't seem to make any big impact. In matter of fact I haven't yet bought Miracle +recovery.
During long fights I don't use Darkest Night or Charged Armour. Which helps a lot. In fact I'm considering to remove all slots from CA and use it as a mule for +3def IO. Have to think about it a it more, but it looks like I have almost allways CA detoggled anyway. My build has 33% end rdx at prot bots. Iirc they have run out of end only while fighting Ghost of Scrapyard. I think I've actually dismissed and resummoned 'em once because of that. In short: They seem to need small amount of end rdx but most of the time 33% is enough (in my build and my playing style at least). |
Code:
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And then there's electric fences. This is one area where I felt your build kind of lacked (my opinion)
With my slotting, I've got 10 sec recharge and 35 second duration, which means that I can maintain a triple stack of fences on a single target, which is usually enough to hold an AV immobile. With your 12 second recharge and 32 second duration you're 4 second shy of a triple stack where I have 5 seconds padding. When facing a tougher AV, this can give you some breathing room. When I talked about performance differences, this was an example. 3 seconds duration and 2 of recharge being the difference between immobilizing an AV and not.
Take a look, see what you think.
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Builds are closer to one another than one would think at first glance. Differences are pretty much the ones you mentioned except I wouldn't really say my global recharge is slower if one takes hasten into consideration. Over long period of time my global recharge is ~61%. |
Originally Posted by spiritfox
I like the balance I got in this build. I've got just about the same defense numbers you've got (the discrepancy is more from slotting maneuvers and shadowfall for more def than I did) but my shadowfall resistance is a bit better, my global recharge is a bit higher, and my endurance recover is a bit higher. Slight performance improvements with a few changes that you might or might not like depending on playstyle. I took provoke earlier than you, with bots/dark I always want to start tankerminding as soon as I've got all my minions for BG, but for a 50 that doesn't much matter. I find that the late 20s is kind of the breakpoint for that, if I exemp lower and don't have full bots I'll never need provoke, but if I'm high enough level to have all my bots still I'll want provoke to let me handle the extra damage enemies start pumping out as the SO levels start to flesh out.
And then there's electric fences. This is one area where I felt your build kind of lacked (my opinion) With my slotting, I've got 10 sec recharge and 35 second duration, which means that I can maintain a triple stack of fences on a single target, which is usually enough to hold an AV immobile. With your 12 second recharge and 32 second duration you're 4 second shy of a triple stack where I have 5 seconds padding. When facing a tougher AV, this can give you some breathing room. When I talked about performance differences, this was an example. 3 seconds duration and 2 of recharge being the difference between immobilizing an AV and not. Take a look, see what you think. |
What comes to order of power selections I'll pay attention to your comments when respeccing. This is my lvl 50 respec build and while I did try to make it "exemplarable" I didn't pay as much attention to it as to some other things.
Is immobilization of AV really needed? Tbh I haven't really used it or needed it so far against AVs. As long as they have been attacking me instead of running like headless chickens (which they haven't done so far) it hasn't made difference if they preferred to stay in melee or ranged. But I haven't actually faced many AVs because only Scirocco felt like any challenge and it was only because of tornados. So I got bored and stopped fighting 'em. Perhaps the ones I fought just happened to be easy ones.. Can you recommend some tough ones that I could easily face in a "sparring fight" in AE building. This is my 1st character that I've used to solo avs. I'm kinda newbie in CoH.
The more I think about it the more convinced I'm that while respeccing I won't put any additional slots to Charged Armor. One of those three slots will be for six slotting Fearsome Stare. It'll actually enhance my AoE def by 0.62%. The rest of 'em I'll propably use to either six slot Electric Fences(!) or for two additional Basilisk Gaze chants on fluffy. Probably I'll choose EF.
One thing I'd suggest you to try is slot end/rech/slow from Tempered Readiness instead of End reduction in Tar Patch. It's less than 1mil to test in and slot End red back if you don't like the change. But I'd be surprised if you dont.. You'll gain faster recharge, lose only 1ep/cast and double the time it takes from mobs to run outside Tar Patch. Btw do you know that res debuffs of two Tar Patches do stack? In practice 30s recast time of Tar Patch can improve your overall dmg output by ~10% when compared to 45s recast time.
Edit: Ok, Lord Recluse does cause some grey hair to me LOL. Looks like I just can't keep 4 bosses and him under control and then it's bye bye to bots and visit to hospital. L2p issue I guess.
Does he really allways summon those Executioners at the beginning of a fight as he did at every one of my three attempts? Does he also resummon 'em during the fight? I guess.. That guy is a challenge; to me at least. I shut me mouth
Ok, I changed my build a bit. I think it's now even further adapted to my personal preferences.
Cons:
* Decrease in rng/aoe def (-1.25%/-0.9%) Now 39,5%/40.1% with the bubble
* EF still not stackable thrice when hasten is down
* Build looks even more abnormal than it used to
Pros:
* Additional taunting power
* 3.1% gain to s/l def. Now 40,7% with the bubble.
* Better order of power selections (thx to spiritfox for this)
* 5% increase to global recharge (67% average now with hasten)
* Minor increase in dps (~5/sec)
* Build looks even more abnormal than it used to
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Pps. Dont pay attention to order of slotting. I'm too lazy to change this in Mids.
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With how often I see things run from me for no apparent reason, I love being able to immobilize. More than once I've had an AV take off at about half damage and even after I clear around them they manage to seek out the closest enemy possible. Doing lower level AVs alone is hell sometimes, I've had 20+ minute AV battles because they run and run and run away, I've even reset encounters hoping that it will reset the AI enough to keep things in one place.|
Originally Posted by Simak
Is immobilization of AV really needed? Tbh I haven't really used it or needed it so far against AVs. As long as they have been attacking me instead of running like headless chickens (which they haven't done so far) it hasn't made difference if they preferred to stay in melee or ranged. But I haven't actually faced many AVs because only Scirocco felt like any challenge and it was only because of tornados. So I got bored and stopped fighting 'em. Perhaps the ones I fought just happened to be easy ones.. Can you recommend some tough ones that I could easily face in a "sparring fight" in AE building. This is my 1st character that I've used to solo avs. I'm kinda newbie in CoH.
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The added benefit is that with a decent ability to immobilize, you can worry alot less about AoE defense to handle those point blanks by parking whomever somewhere and standing about 10 yards away next to your bots. Then its just a quick sideways dash when its time for TG.
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The more I think about it the more convinced I'm that while respeccing I won't put any additional slots to Charged Armor. One of those three slots will be for six slotting Fearsome Stare. It'll actually enhance my AoE def by 0.62%. The rest of 'em I'll propably use to either six slot Electric Fences(!) or for two additional Basilisk Gaze chants on fluffy. Probably I'll choose EF. One thing I'd suggest you to try is slot end/rech/slow from Tempered Readiness instead of End reduction in Tar Patch. It's less than 1mil to test in and slot End red back if you don't like the change. But I'd be surprised if you dont.. You'll gain faster recharge, lose only 1ep/cast and double the time it takes from mobs to run outside Tar Patch. Btw do you know that res debuffs of two Tar Patches do stack? In practice 30s recast time of Tar Patch can improve your overall dmg output by ~10% when compared to 45s recast time. Edit: Ok, Lord Recluse does cause some grey hair to me LOL. Looks like I just can't keep 4 bosses and him under control and then it's bye bye to bots and visit to hospital. L2p issue I guess. Does he really allways summon those Executioners at the beginning of a fight as he did at every one of my three attempts? Does he also resummon 'em during the fight? I guess.. That guy is a challenge; to me at least. I shut me mouth
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Thx for the reply. I can't argue with either of the issues you brought up. I actually already respecced and even edited a build a bit while respeccing. (Usually very clever decision |
Originally Posted by spiritfox
With how often I see things run from me for no apparent reason, I love being able to immobilize. More than once I've had an AV take off at about half damage and even after I clear around them they manage to seek out the closest enemy possible. Doing lower level AVs alone is hell sometimes, I've had 20+ minute AV battles because they run and run and run away, I've even reset encounters hoping that it will reset the AI enough to keep things in one place.
The added benefit is that with a decent ability to immobilize, you can worry alot less about AoE defense to handle those point blanks by parking whomever somewhere and standing about 10 yards away next to your bots. Then its just a quick sideways dash when its time for TG. |
)I edited changes into previous post.If I'm starting to experience problems you were describing I guess I have to respec once more and move those two additional slots into EF.
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Why do you say that Electrifying Fences is the best immob? Compare to Web Envelope:|
Originally Posted by JWatt
An Immob is good, and Mu Mastery has the best overall Immob.
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Electrifying Fences
range 40
radius 10
end 12.7
recharge 20s
duration 17.9s
cast 1.17s
accuracy 75%
Web Envelope
range 80
radius 15
end 12.7
recharge 20s
duration 17.9s
cast 2s
accuracy 78.8%
It looks to me like Web Envelope is better on range and (critically) radius. The accuracy bonus is not that big of a deal. It loses out on cast time, but that's a fair trade. The larger radius of Web Envelope translates to more than twice the area covered (707 vs 314).
Plus you can get Web Envelope earlier and without any prerequisites, which is nice if you don't want Static Discharge or Charged Armor.
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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For a Bot/ MM -KB is gold, it allows you to keep mobs from being scatter due to the various KB attacks of the henchmen, which means more burning patch damage. The other immobilizes would be work better with the other primaries|
Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse
Why do you say that Electrifying Fences is the best immob? Compare to Web Envelope:
Electrifying Fences range 40 radius 10 end 12.7 recharge 20s duration 17.9s cast 1.17s accuracy 75% Web Envelope range 80 radius 15 end 12.7 recharge 20s duration 17.9s cast 2s accuracy 78.8% It looks to me like Web Envelope is better on range and (critically) radius. The accuracy bonus is not that big of a deal. It loses out on cast time, but that's a fair trade. The larger radius of Web Envelope translates to more than twice the area covered (707 vs 314). Plus you can get Web Envelope earlier and without any prerequisites, which is nice if you don't want Static Discharge or Charged Armor. |
Also, almost every MM worth their salt gets at least the epic shield from the patron set, res shields stack with BG-Mode and many MMs build for defense and Scorp Shield helps.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
I didn't realize Web Envelope didn't have -KB. Now I feel dumb. Good thing the patrons give us a respec...
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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don't feel bad |
Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse
I didn't realize Web Envelope didn't have -KB. Now I feel dumb. Good thing the patrons give us a respec...
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I asked the exact same question a couple of weeks ago, which is when I found out that electric fences had -KB and the others don't. MIDs is such a wonderful tool that I frequently forget that it doesn't always show everything about a power. electric fences is one such case. comparing the information in there for fences vs. web, web appears to win hands down.
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Yeah, I didn't look at the actual power data, just the simple summary that Mids puts on the "Info" box for the power. But if you select the power and click the "Effects" tab you can see the -KB for EF and not for WG. I just didn't look.
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Originally Posted by kendo
MIDs is such a wonderful tool that I frequently forget that it doesn't always show everything about a power. electric fences is one such case. comparing the information in there for fences vs. web, web appears to win hands down.
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[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
as in the title mentioned i wanna get as much aoe dmg out of my robo/dark miasma MM as possible
would be great of you could mention a map which will be good to clean with it then
Helge corr lvl 50 rad/cold
Helge2 corr lvl 50 ice/rad
Techbothelge MM lvl 50 robo/dark
Helge Mauz def lvl 50 emp/ele
illuhelge troller lvl 50 illu/rad
Wiederbelebter helge nk lvl 50 bs/reg
Maennerschreack nightwidow lvl 44
Quantenjaeger ws lvl 3