Repulsion Field & Force Bubble

Heya folks, i was wondering if it's worth getting both of these and whether they stack?

They both do different effects (I think) so don't 'stack', but they can both work at the same time.

Force Bubble is KB, Repulsion Field is repel, and different mobs are resistant to one or the other.

Personally Repulsion field is a bit small for me, but Force Bubble has situational uses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

forcebubble is repel and knock up (mag 0.1 kb) only togglecost (0.86 end/sec)
repulsion field is high knock back (mag 4.99 kb) togglecost and endcost per target which is knocked back (0.98 end/sec and 1.25 end/target)
repulsion field effect is in meleerange
force bubbles effect has a radius of 50 feet

Force bubble is way better IMO. Since it has a longer range and it wont waste as much Endurance as Repulsion Field.

But RF can take in Enhancement Sets. Either way, its your call!

I'm trying to decide whether to go with one or the other of these, as I'm approaching L38 now. I'm not sure which is better, if indeed either is a good choice.

Here's the build:

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Lord Dire: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), Acc-I(3), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(7)
Level 1: Force Bolt -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(7)
Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(9), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(11), Dmg-I(11)
Level 4: Pulse Rifle Blast -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(13), Dmg-I(13), Dmg-I(15), Dmg-I(15)
Level 6: Equip Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Air Superiority -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(17), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(19), Dmg-I(19)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(21), Acc-I(21), DefBuff-I(23), DefBuff-I(23), DefBuff-I(25)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(25), Flight-I(27)
Level 16: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(27), DefBuff-I(46)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(29), Heal-I(29)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(31), EndMod-I(31)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(33)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(34), DefBuff-I(34)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(34), Acc-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(37)
Level 28: Photon Grenade -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(37), Dmg-I(37), Dsrnt-I(39), Dsrnt-I(39), Dsrnt-I(39)
Level 30: Group Fly -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(40), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Repulsion Bomb -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(40), Dmg-I(42), Dsrnt-I(42), Dsrnt-I(42), Dsrnt-I(43)
Level 38: Force Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Static Discharge -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(43), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45)
Level 44: Charged Armor -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(46), ResDam-I(46)
Level 47: Thunder Strike -- EndRdx-I(A), Acc-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(50)
Level 49: Electric Shackles -- Acc-I(A), Hold-I(50), Hold-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy



The character tends not to get personally involved if possible, but should be able to defend himself. Repulsion Field looks nifty and all, but I found it to be of extremely limited use on my FF Defender. I didn't bother with Force Bubble on either as yet.

Are they really of any value, and if so which is superior?

I would always take Force Bubble, because with it you can pin mobs against walls and into those lovely burn patches.

In your build I would also find room for Electric Fences (The AoE immob) because that also keeps large groups in those burn patches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

I picked Mu because the character should really have blasts of his own (I grow weary constantly running back to Siren's Call to buy EMP Gloves). I'm not sure why I didn't pick Electric Fences... Must have been an oversight.

Just a minor quibble, force bubble is knockdown. This doesn't happen often, however, but the repel is steady.

Unlike KB, repel just gives a stead 'push back' rather than the 'send 'em flying' that KB does. This makes it far easier to control and guide enemies into a nice clump, but allows them to do their ranged attacks as they don't get caught in the knocked back/get up animation. A small price to pay to completely protect your metal buddies from all melee attacks. I've done missions set for 8, and you can almost fall asleep and still win with the forcefield defense combined with your robo-pose standing their ground blasting the things that can't get near them.

Even on teams, force bubble is useful. All ranged team, you can sit back and watch things die. If you have a brute who want to be front man, just bubble him up, let them do their thing while you sit behind in your force bubble calling the shots with the bots. Anything running to you or away from battle get shoved back into the brute's reach.

Hm. I'm unconvinced that the Force Bubble is really all that useful. After trying it for a while now, I'm wondering if I wouldn't have been better with the Repulsion Field (since Knockback does mitigate damage somewhat), especially since the Force Bubble pushes foes out of range of my attacks but usually not theirs.

I'm wondering if I might not be better taking Assault or Aid Other (or Repair, though that is only useful to my bots).

Any other thoughts?

Repulsion Field, from what experience I've had with it, is a piece of garbage that seems to have been specifically designed to make people who take it weaker. It costs, on its own, more than any combination of other toggles I can think of, and can drain your endurance to NOTHING if you have a large spawn that persistently tried to get into melee range, and it does almost nothing since people will just shoot you to death. It's even worse on a Mastermind, since it's a form of self-protection that doesn't help you protect your henchmen. And since henchmen are your REAL self-protection, not protecting them is silly, especially when it costs you so damn much to not protect them.

Also, the range on Force Bubble is 50 feet. The ranges on Pulse Rifle Blast, Pulse Rifle Burst, Photon Grenade and Force Bolt are 80 feet and the range on Repulsion Bomb is 70 feet, easily longer than the reach of the bubble. How are you managing to not be able to fire your rifle blasts past the range of Force Bubble when they have a longer range? Secondly, the primary use of Force Bubble is to sweep enemies into a corner and jam them into a clump so that your Assault Bot can burn-patch them to death without them scattering, and if you jam them in a corner, you can approach past your bubble's outer wall since there's nowhere for the enemies to be nudged back to.

I've been over this before. People extorted the virtues of Repulsion Field and how it helped with enemies resistant to repel (I don't remember WHICH enemies), but even then, the thing ticks once every two seconds, which is plenty of time for people to run in and punch you or your bots in the face. Also, with so many enemies firing AoEs from range, a 9-feet-wide kinda-sphere isn't going to do anything to save you. Specifically since YOU shouldn't need saving in the first place, with your bots around you, Protector Bots bubbling you and your own Dispersion Bubble protecting your from attacks and adverse effects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

On my Bots/Bubbles I do like Force Bubble, but I only even use it in office/warehouse/crey style maps with nice square walls, and even then only on the mobs in corners or dead ends.

Basically it doesn't need to be used often, but when you do use it, it can be very effective.

If you ever face Cimeroran Traitors though it is a godsend, since they are all but immune to stun and immob, Force Bubble helps keep your bots from being slashed to pieces. Though the kill speed is slow since they won't stay in your burn patches

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

There is another difference between these two powers. Repulsion Field is relatively team friendly (unless you go psycho and run around the field knocking stuff everywhere). It's especially good for a character with capped Ranged defense--which, as a FF'er, is easily within reach. The idea is that it is another layer of protection in case your efforts to stay at range fail.

Force Bubble is something else altogether. It has its uses but its likely to tick a lot of teams off. It's also a good way to aggro every group on the map all at the same time. Maybe not an issue for a MM, but a huge one for Controllers and Defenders.