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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by ORACLE View Post
    I have one and it is great but not ideal for farming. Go for a fire kin if thats what you want...not a tank.
    Fire kins have a disadvantage from tanks/scrapper/brute though, they're much more squishy. It's not like their AoE disables will hit the whole group all the time (and even then, there's still the 16 target limit), and spending slots on softcapping also means the slots aren't spent on stuff like haste and damage bonuses. They're nice when grouped, but solo, not really that good compared to a scrapper or brute imho (fire armour means they don't really need to softcap def when fighting fire-based minions).
  2. Also speaking in favor of specific powers..

    1) Sometimes you want to stealth, get in and get out. Stalkers can naturally do this, though there're some issues regarding their stealth when teaming. Illusions has the best stealth power, period: their superior invisibility doesn't suppress when attacking, allowing you to pick fights (do note that linked mobs will still fight you as a group baring pulling and such) Other minor stealth (such as from dark armour, or storm summoning) can be combined with superspeed (or a stealth IO if you can afford one) for practical full stealth save for perceptive enemies.
    2) Defense is not the only way to protect yourself from attacks, to-hit debuffs also work in a pinch. The best by far is hurricane from storm summoning (37.5% unbuffed on a defender and 30% for corrupter/controller, a single IO for defender drops base to-hit to the minimal softcap of 5%), if you can handle the pushback. Dark blast, dark melee and dark miasma also gives to-hit debuffs, and more controllable, though not nearly as much to-hit debuff. Of course, you can combine both dark blast with storm summoning or dark miasma too.
    3) The best "control" status is confuse, being rarely resisted, often doesn't cause aggro to yourself, and lasts a long time. Both illusion and mind control offers a good single target confuse ability. Both plant control and mind offers a good AoE confuse ability.

    From the above, I would also recommend illusion/storm. You get invisibility, confuse to keep big mobs from smacking you, hurricane to keep anything from hitting you, among other useful and fun abilities like freezing rain (ultimate AoE debuff: debuffs def, res, recharge, movement speeds substantially, and causes knockdown) and phantom army (summons which are invincible and likes to take aggro for you) .
  3. Signpost

    Issue 19.5

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Glowworm_Nexus View Post
    I wish that the different origins reflected sub-genres and affected what missions were available to you (or possibly affected specific elements within missions). So Natural characters got more film noir-ish stories, Tech got some evolution of a tech-society stories (Blade Runner, etc), Mutant got stranger-in-a-strange-land, identity politics, etc stories, Science got some cerebral detective stories (ala "Bones" or more fantastically "Dr. Who") and Magic got some spiritual searching, nature of reality stories.
    If it helps, I recall there's at least one Praetorian mish which has origin-specific dialog lines when disarming a bomb. I recall magic spoke to a fire demon or some such, natural cut the correct wires..

    Also, technically the mish lines which delves to specific origin enhancements are supposedly origin-themed; which is why you get the magic origin contacts at Croatoa..
  4. Signpost

    Judgment slot

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by srmalloy View Post
    Of course not... When you're fighting mobs that debuff Defense, you need someone for veng bait...
    Actually, a good SR build will not fall due to def debuffs because they can easily cap their def debuff resistance (95%).
  5. Signpost

    Issue 19.5

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Sister Psyche implies in the Origin of Power arc that genetic mutation isn't the sole story behind people who have power that appears to come from genetic mutation: that there is some deeper thing at work. But that isn't really about whether our understanding of the mutant origin is invalid in the metagaming sense: Sister Psyche is doing what all the Origin of Power contacts seem to be intending to do, which is to imply that there is a root cause to all superpowers that transcends the five origins. Which is possibly a reference to the revelation that the Well of Furies is the source of all Incarnate power, and possibly ultimately the source of all power.
    Technically more than that though. Both sides imply that Mutant, as an origin, only came about after 1938, the splitting of the atom. Certainly genetic mutations existed before 1938. But as a discrete source of power, it apparently draws from a different source even if genetic, at least until that 1938 event. Also because it's from atomic structure, it also means that Mutant doesn't necessarily have to be from mutation whatsoever.

    More importantly, Sister Psyche also implies that there may be more origins that the quaint 5 (or 6) categories we have.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome View Post
    If you've slotted Taunt with duration you shouldn't loose aggro in the 30 seconds you're in time out.
    Just remember that taunt hits only 5 mobs though. Multiple casts may hit more, but based on cast time and etc you may lose some, not to mention that you don't know if the taunt would hit the same mobs again.
  7. Just a thought, but want to see a zone where Metronome killed everyone (as opposed to primal-version clockwork king)

    ....


    (scribbles into AE ideas notepad)
  8. Signpost

    Issue 19.5

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
    When I started writing my post yours wasn't there. I typed up something about the Discworld, then started writing about the Mu, because I thought they had a pact with Hecquat to get power, but couldn't remember her name, so I went to research and discovered that it wasn't really a pact with Hecquat.
    Maybe not this post, but I edited a previous post too. Still, I just want to correct this major misconception being thrown around here.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
    I could see DE/human hybrids playing a similar role in Praetoria to the Lost on Primal Earth.
    I think the ghouls/experiments already take up that position.
  10. Signpost

    Issue 19.5

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
    In City of Heroes... why aren't the Mu mutants? From what I've read, they improved their magic abilities by selective breeding.
    I guess you missed my posts and/or edits. Either way, both are wrong, Mutants are NOT genetic based on CoH lore. See the post above yours.

    (Also noting because it's atomic, fixadine-related mutations are also liable to fall under Mutant despite not being genetic.)
  11. Signpost

    Issue 19.5

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    To be a mutant, there has to be a genetic cause of your powers. Just being born able to do magic doesn't make you a mutant, even if it runs in families (i.e. Sourcery). The same thing is true even in CoH: the Mu have familial sources of magical ability, but they are not mutants.
    Actually according to some COH lore, it may have to be more than genetic. Dmitri Krylov and Sister Psyche speculates it to be atomic. In that sense, pure genetic mutations may very well be classified Natural instead.

    Also note that the same speculation states that Origins can change over time. Which makes the whole thing more complicated... or more simple. In that sense, by doing the incarnate arcs, we're changing origin from whatever we were, to Incarnate.

    (EDIT: Also because it's atomic, fixadine related mutations may potentially be considered Mutant origin despite not being genetic. And theoretically, it may also affect more than just biological beings. Just a thought.)
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
    Okay, this is getting me a bit puzzled, since as I look at it, the in-game numbers are expressed as a different range than what the paragon wiki indicates... and moreover, I see a disconnect between the combat monitor and the 'maximums' that paragon wiki offers for health regeneration.

    On a level 50 blaster, repeating Bosstone's test, I also get 8.33%/sec health regeneration while resting.. From a base of 0.42%. I cannot arrive at a maximum of 1900% or 2000% health regeneration buff from that.

    Where are those maximums from?
    You forgot that the number is rounded. 8.33/20 is 0.4165.
  13. IMHO.... change the 2 minute ones to 4 minute ones. Buffing 7 people every 2 (or less) minutes, assuming 2 seconds per buff, which is 14 seconds, out of 120 seconds, that's over 10% of the time buffing. That's all.
  14. Signpost

    Issue 19.5

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Radmind View Post
    It's says any 2 Rare will be needed to craft the Very rare.
    Three problems.
    1) The chart differs from the in-game chart, which links all the rares together before splitting to the very rares.
    2) If assuming it's not linked, why any two rares, as opposed to the rares underneath them?
    3) Is that rare boost slot, OR rare components? It may very well mean any two rare components, along with ALL boost slots underneath them.
  15. Signpost

    Issue 19.5

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balanced View Post
    The Common boost costs 3 common components, which is equivalent to 12 shards.

    The Uncommon boost costs a Common boost, 2 common components, and an uncommon component. That's equivalent to 12 + 8 + 12 = 32 shards.

    The cost of a Rare boost is unknown. I assume that it will include at least one Uncommon boost, plus other stuff. My guess would be that it will cost two Uncommon boosts, which would make its total equivalent cost 64 shards.

    The Very Rare boost costs "Any 2 Rare", according to the official Going Rogue site, which Teeko linked above. If that's still accurate, and if my guess about Rares is anywhere near the mark, that gives us an equivalent cost in the vicinity of 128 shards.

    Of course, stockpiling components as well as shards will help, but that's still a lot of stuff to make one Very Rare.
    Also, the way the upgrade chart is drawn, it looks like you need ALL rare boosts to unlock the very rare boost, which would increase the costs further.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
    Outside of the first arc you can do blueside, is there anything else based on origin? Out of curiosity.
    Well, some temp powers grant additional effect based on origin, and since some prigin powers have an energy component, they can be used to light oil slicks...

    Personal opinion, I'd think there should be a dual origin option, but that would mess with single origin enhancements. Also note that all 5 origins had never always existed, and apparently, it's possible for an origin to change, if Dmitri Krylov is correct.
  16. Signpost

    Epicness??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan View Post
    Let me put in a good word for a Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker. Why? You do everything with EXPLOSIONS.
    - Attack nearby enemies? EXPLOSIONS.
    - Attack distant enemies? EXPLOSIONS.
    - Heal yourself? EXPLOSION.
    - Buff your damage? EXPLOSION.
    With the Tech Booster, you can even kill yourself with an EXPLOSION, and then resurrect yourself with another EXPLOSION.

    tl;dr Fire/Fire/Pyre = EXPLOSIONS
    IMHO robot MMs have more EXPLOSIONS, but only because of all those missiles flying everywhere... (Mental note: get Vanguard temp summon for more giant robot goodness)

    Only problem is that it turns EPIC only at 32. But what a lovely EPIC it is.
  17. Signpost

    Epicness??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Humility View Post
    For blasting plus survivability you'll want a VEAT. :P
    Or a MFing Warshade. Thought that's technically blasting plus tanking plus survivability, so that doesn't really count..
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by halfflat View Post
    Aie, I did not! I'll have to crack open Mids or check the stats sites to see what this counts as in terms of base regen %. (that is, as a figure that be compared with the regen bonus percentages). I may have a wrong understanding of the regen bonus percentages!

    EDIT: Oops, no dramas. My understanding was correct: the (1 + g) [where g is the additional regen bonus from Health, etc.] is multiplied by the base regeneration rate, which was represented above by hmax c. For absolute values of where the immortality line sits, the base regeneration is of course important. For comparing improvements though, it all cancels out.
    Random note though, past level two, one can consider base regen to be 140%, cause of inherent health.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crashed View Post
    I enjoy KB quite a bit (see my Storm/Energy Defender), but as an avid AR Blaster, I dislike the KB inherent in the set. Having to hover above a mob just to keep it from hurting the other powers in the same set is an unnecessary obstacle. In Storm Summing, the entire set works around moving foes around. Lightning Storm alone can cause a lot of KB, and Hurricane causes MORE KB which lets you shift enemies around and cluster them together so that you can make the most out of Storm's damage and debuffs. All of that is within the set itself. The KB is designed to make the set as a whole work better (in the right hands, of course).

    In order to make AR's KB not force enemies out of your cone radius, you've got to take an additional power that doesn't come in the set. That's where, in my opinion, AR gets the short end of the stick. I agree Neogumbercules that AR could definitely use being looked at. It's fun, and my AR/Mental is one of my favorite characters, but the set as a whole is just a little off.

    I actually think the Flamethrower idea is pretty good after glancing at it quickly. It was always weird to me that somehow, Flamethrower was the sloooooowest fire in the woooooooorld.
    Maybe it's just me then. But as an AoE set it really isn't all that bad, and I don't compulsively force myself to be optimal. And it's not like it's the set with the most KBs. (glances at energy blast, which also has 2 (ignoring nuke) AoEs with KB.)
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
    Absolutely. I only mentioned WP and Regen because they can get permanent passive regeneration over 400% relatively easily. IO builds for certain powersets can hit 400% passive regen with a great deal of effort, but have a hard time going much farther.

    The powers you mention are good for regen, but each comes with some sort of drawback.
    Regen Aura, for instance cannot be made permanent (60% uptime on most mature builds).
    Well, at least Suppress Pain (MM version, or in PvP) is easy without any drawbacks since that's 200% base, along with Health for another 40%, you just need a single health IO to hit 425%. Still, point taken.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
    Realistically, only WP and Regen are going to get over 400%
    constant regeneration, which brings us back to the whole point made in the thread that Defense and Regen are only comparable at lower amounts.
    1) Drain Psyche
    2) Suppress Pain, Painbringer
    3) Regeneration Aura, Adrenalin Boost

    I'm sure there're other ways of boosting regen to fun levels, just can't remember..
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG View Post
    Very poor single-target damage, Ignite being an unreliable damage dealer. Yes, you can immob (with the right secondary) but other sets can just hit their close-range damage dealer for the same effect -- or their fourth ranged attack.
    I never had any issues with ignite. I use it as a combat starter (mobs turn around shoot me, by the time they realize they're burning, they've already taken some damage. Oh, and on blasters, they give a whopping +15% defiance bonus), as an anti-melee (mobs come in, take a whack, realise they're taking heavy damage, run off..), and yes, against AVs and GMs and stationary objects where movement is unlikely. And on my corrupters, I use them when they're under half health regardless since each individual tick can scourge, leading to relatively stable (and fast) foe-melting.

    Yes, Ignite is unreliable. But it does 150% the damage of similar attacks (on blasters), uses half the endurance, it's drawbacks are negligible when single damage is most needed (AV/GMs), is AoE (granted small AoE, but that's better than NO AoE). And it is entirely fire damage, giving a secondary element to a "lethal" set when lethal is heavily resisted/defended.

    On a side note, it deals the same damage on corruptors, blasters, and defenders. Meaning that on defenders, it does ABSURD amounts of damage, especially when considering it does nearly x3 damage of blazing arrow, or snipes for that matter.

    Checklist:
    On Blasters: 15.1% defiance for 11.5 seconds
    On Corruptors: Each tick can scourge
    On Defenders: Highest damaging attack save for tornado.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Neogumbercules View Post
    I guess I'll justify my nomination of AR.

    Burst and Slug are perfectly serviceable ST attacks, if not lacking in creativity/visual flair.

    Buckshot is tied for second for lowest damaging early Blaster cone attack. Only Sonic's cones do less base damage, but they all give good -res. It has the added "benefit" of random AoE KB. In a set full of cone AoEs, random KB is a detriment to the AoE chain. It's closest competitor is Fistful of Arrows, which has no Knockback. Considering Sonic's -res and the non-scattering reliability of Fistful, I consider Buckshot the worst Blaster early tier cone attack.
    Technically you forgot Dual pistol's empty clips. Also technically, in it's recharge range, it is also tied first for highest damaging 8 second recharge cone attacks. If we're talking about the 16 second ones, that's what flamethrower is for.

    Quote:
    M30 Grenade does slightly less damage than Buckshot, is pure S/L damage, and has a huge mag random knockback effect. Again, in a set full of cones, KB is detrimental to your AoE chain. Starting to sense a theme here?
    That's the same with all KB attacks, however, using hover, you can turn that KB into a KD. Not really hard, just hover above. And because it's not a cone, hovering 1 feet above doesn't affect the size of your AoE. Also, it hits 16 mobs instead of 10. Also, it's a SECOND AoE. Both which are spammable.

    Quote:
    I know KB lovers may take issue with this complaint. You can mitigate the detrimental effects of KB with positioning, but you can't ever account for the totally random nature that these powers present. M30 is even harder with it's much higher mag and higher target limit.

    Beanbag is OK if you like the stun effect. I'm not a fan.
    It's an option. If you hate stuns... Archery has an entirely identical skill.

    Quote:
    Sniper Rifle is your bog standard Snipe. It's pure lethal damage in a set without Aim, so the damage isn't great, but if you like snipes then you probably like them for reasons other than pure damage.

    Flamethrower. Ok. Where to start? First off, when they did the AR "buffs" they lowered the cast time to 2.33 seconds. That was good. But then they went and totally screwed up the projectile speed. That means the further away you are from your target, the longer it takes for your damage to start hitting the enemy. It's soooo slow. BaBs said at the time that this made more sense because the flame has travel time. Maybe he had never actually seen a flamethrower being used before. They are fast. Like OMG FIRE!!! fast. Seriously. Youtube it.

    Once your damage does hit the targets, they will slowly begin to take moderately high damage. SEVEN SECONDS later, the DoT will have finally dealt all that damage. A lot can happen in seven seconds. In seven seconds you can unload the rest of your AoEs. In 7 seconds your team can murder the entire spawn. In seven seconds your targets are gonna be dead and the endurance that you spent to deal all of that damage is going to go to waste. Then you're stuck with a slow, expensive, narrow cone attack.

    It's even worse on Corrs because this is typically gonna be an opener either before or after Full Auto. If you use it before Full Auto you have no chance of ever scourging and if you use it after Full Auto you might scourge, but you're pulling so much aggro that using another long animating, rooting attack like FA will be extremely dangerous.
    Only thing I agree with. But since AR is overloaded with AoEs, I drop the single weakest one, even if it's one of the two fire damage ones.

    Quote:
    Ignite: This power is good. Good IF you can immobilize enemies. Good IF you don't mind spending around 6-7 seconds to set up this combo (4s to cast, + ~2s to use your immob/slow/whatever AND redraw the rifle). Good IF you get more than a couple of guys in the microscopic AoE. Good IF you don't mind having an attack that takes so long to set up and deal all of it's damage that you could literally have used every other AoE attack in the set in the amount of time it takes to pay off this combo. Good IF your team doesn't just slaughter the enemies while you stand there like a moron hosting down corpses. Good IF... oh. It's not good. It sucks. Never mind.
    Actually, it's not good if you set up the combo, it's AMAZING. And the combo happens more than you think. On teams, I'm going to assume you have at least one controller/dominator. Something they like to do is hold/immobolize mobs, especially pesky bosses. Or AVs. Or GMs. It just needs to tick for 2.5 seconds on a single mob to justify the end cost for a blaster. It just need to tick for a second to justify the end cost for a defender. Personally, I never bother to set up the combo, the damage is JUST THAT GOOD. (especially since if I'm not taking down single targets, I've 3/4 other AoEs to choose from..)

    Quote:
    Full Auto: This power is awesome, but it angers me. Why? Well, because it's got a pathetically narrow cone. On top of that, it's got a measly 10 target cap. It's next closest competitor, Rain of Arrows (especially on Corrs), is so much better in so many ways it's astonishing. This is supposed to be the big awesome power that completes the set. You wait till level 32/38 to get it, and when you finally get it, it's really really... boring. Unimpressive. Just bland.
    It's also the longest ranged cone. Admittedly it's weaker than Rain of arrows. But since there's only three crashless nukes, it's still good for people who don't like nuke crashes.


    Quote:
    Assault Rifle stands out to me because it's a set that has some good ideas, but constantly trips over it's own feet. It's a cone focused set with random scattering KB. It has narrow cones that are the complete opposite of what you want with all those spread out enemies. It has long animation times even after the buffs and the only powers that aren't hampered by lowish S/L damage or random KB are both excruciatingly long DoTs. One of which requires insane time to cast and use effectively because it is utterly useless unless you can somehow manage to keep an enemy from instantly escaping it's area of effect.

    With just a few minor changes AR could be really awesome. With some visual improvements it could become very cool and with some minor mechanical tweaks it can become so much more playable.

    Visual: Add tracer trails to burst.

    Take M30 off of the rifle and make it an actual tossed grenade. Pull the pin with your teeth and lob it into the crowd.

    Have the character get down on one knee to aim down the sight for Snipe.

    Make Flamethrower a quick, fiery, smokey blast of fire.

    Ignite can be a canister tossed with one hand, then your character holds up a triggering device with the other hand and pushes the button, resulting in an explosion that sets the ground on fire.

    Full Auto can start with your character pulling back the cocking mechanism on the gun, holding the weapon at the hip, and unloading a massive spray of bullets with tracer rounds flying everywhere and tons of bullet casings flying out of the gun all over the place. When the shooting stops, your character holds the gun up at a 45 degree angle, and pulls the cocking mechanism again to "reload" as the barrel sends up trails of white smoke.

    Mechanical:

    Flamethrower should get the same treatment that Midnight Grasp got. I'm thinking 75% upfront damage, 25% percent DoT and it should be LESS than 7 seconds. This is super annoying to me because IIRC the AR buffs came out in the same update as the Dark Melee buffs, but they overlooked Flamethrower and didn't apply the logic of changing Midnight Grasp to Flamethower.

    Ignite would actually be ok if the animation time was shorter and the area of effect was larger. Maybe not Oil Slick Arrow huge, but if it was bigger it would be much easier to keep enemies inside of it. You can even give it a slow effect and call it a sticky, napalm like substance.
    And that would make it overpowered. The closest comparison would be "burn" from fiery armour, since it has nearly the exact same mechanic as the old versions Thing is, it's MEANT to fear, as a form of area denial. It's more than just a damage attack, it's also mitigation.

    Quote:
    M30 and Buckshot should have their KB mag reduced to .63 so they can only knock down enemies. This allows you to strategically combo these attacks with the larger radius of Ignite in order to create *gasp* synergy within the damn powerset!! The random knock down will give you the ability to control enemies inside of your ignite patch ensuring they never get out. Because the KD chance is only somewhere like 60%, you won't be able to keep them all in the patch, but that's what makes it exciting, fun, and balanced.
    Or you can hover above the mobs, and do the exact same thing. Or you can use the kb in other interesting ways. Face it, you just don't like KB. I'm going to assume you also don't like the Storm Summoning set.

    Quote:
    Full Auto should either get a damage increase and a cone size increase OR a target cap of 16 and a cone size increase. Either way, it needs a bigger cone. Archery is the closest basis for comparison. The sets are very very similar in many ways. If Rain of Arrows is balanced for Archery, then 16 targets and a bigger cone would be balanced for AR.
    Because cone sizes increase exponentially with distance, the cone is HUGE especially when used at max range. Making the angle bigger would me it extremely likely to tag a spawn beside it. Only thing I agree with is the 16 targets thing, but I'm uncertain that's possible with the current game code.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
    Hm. Yes, I think I see. You're eliminating the stance by making all the attacks the Right Hand stance, but then the weapon is added by the power.

    Sounds really complex, though, and I'm not sure I'd want to say it is possible. Yes, you can change FX depending on a buff (now, I'm not sure if that was possible before Dual Pistols) but I'm not sure you can cause a weapon to appear on an attachment node.

    Plus, you would have to deal with dual wielding as well. Either there would still be redraw as you switched between Right Hand and Dual Wield stance, or dual wielding would have to take place in the Right Hand stance. Either way, it's looking more and more like a total redesign of every animation in the game.
    Not really every animation, just every animation attached to a special stance (and a buff attached to every special stance). Still, since there are quite a few special stances it's still going to be substantial amounts of animation changes, not to mention the codes to remove the buff on stance change (which though probably not as complicated, leaves another avenue for bugs).

    For clarity, the buff doesn't cause the stance. The calling of an attack checks if the buff is present in addition to stance. if the stance (and buff) is present, there is no change from current. If there is no stance (and no buff) present, an alt attack with caster animation and cast time is called, along with activating the buff. Anything which causes the user to change away from this stance removes the buff. In effect, the buff is only used to determine which attack is called, the stance is used to determine whether to redraw the weapon, and works on two separate levels, save for when deciding when to remove the buff.
  24. Signpost

    Judgment slot

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
    I think you are on to something

    All Defenders and Masterminds get Inherent Leadership,
    Tankers and Stalkers get Inherent Presence,
    Scrappers and Brutes get Inherent Fighting,




    Just kidding here
    Yeah, it should be tanks and brutes getting presence and scrappers and stalkers getting fighting!
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
    Willpower and Pain Domination.
    Pain dom is one of the few ways to actually damage teammates, and one of the few support
    sets with skills that gives different buffs to you and your team mates