Sentry4
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I actually explained this yesterday on Virtue in arena chat, so I thought I'd mention it here for you.
If you're taking /fire, the only time to use an attack -outside- of Flares/Fire Blast/Blaze is if you have [Dominate] from Mind Control or [Char] from Fire Control. Those two attacks are the only attacks that will increase your DPS.
For example, a plant/fire and an ice/fire will do the exact same DPS because they won't be using anything from their primary (Except for secondary effects, but never for DPS).
A plant/fire or Ice/fire should use their hold once every 15 seconds, but other than that they should only be using their fire attacks.
Really, anything is fine when paired with /Fire because of that. Only mind and fire can contribute to it, and even then only barely.
EDIT: [Lift] from Gravity with 2 procs is slightly better than Fire Blast when Embrace of Fire is down. -
MrLiberty has a good point.
You're saying that regen is overpowered under a specific set of rules you force yourself to play under
The devs will not balance around player made rules that are not actual rules in the game.
If I make my own rules, say, whoever heals the most is the winnning, I can't complain about emps being overpowered. The devs are going to tell me that balance of their game isn't subject to my rules. Basically, a regen's weakness is ranged toons, and just because you subject yourself to melee only doesn't change the fact that outside of your specific ruleset, regen is not anything special.
This is why duels shouldn't be ranged to ranged and melee to melee only. What could kill a regen easy? A dark defender, which any poison could kill, which a fire blaster might take the poison, but the fire would die to a MM which could die to a fire/ss tank and so on and so forth.
Regen isn't overpowered if you -move-, whether you do that or not is not the devs fault, it's yours.
Run a tourny with regen banned and problem solved. If something is broken in your ruleset, you ban it, like TK in leagues. Why hasn't anyone done this? And why did I only ever think of it after stripping all melee toons? Oh well. -
New weekly event:
Every Monday will be "Arena Night" where we'll form teams with anyone who comes in order to have some 8v8 arena matches.
When the first 16 are in one event, the next event will be started at the same time by another leader. This time, we're prepared for more people to show up, so nobody is left out.
Everyone is invited, although it's recommended to join the PvP Redux channel to keep up to date with events.
The event will start around 5PM(PST), 7PM(CST), 8PM(EST) every Monday from now on. I'll let everyone know ahead of time if I cannot make it. -
Quote:I noticed this a while back and tried to see if it would actually KD an ally. I couldn't get it to proc (Long recharge, not enough trials).Originally Posted by Codewalker
Mastermind Painbringer's 1% chance to knock down an ally player when used on them. lolwut? Why does this even exist? I didn't even know about it until now.
I figured that maybe since it's PvP tagged that it would only work in a PvP zone, but I didn't get it there either.
I'm still waiting for that day I give someone painbringer, they KD in a PvP zone and die to 5 stalkers. -
Quote:Melee characters in PvP have +10000% resistance to KB and KU so they aren't affected by any KB/KU.Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
I haven't done pvp in awhile; how does it affect player targets?
[nvm, found my answer (thanks PWiki); 10 second suppression between K-effects.]
PvP Ranged characters have somewhere around 41-50 KB protection to resist things like Power thurst and Power Push.
Even if it didn't have suppression, it wouldn't affect anyone. Even if it did, I'd rather KB my target than KD them (Less time on their feet and no AoEs in PvP).
That being said, I'm glad someone actually cared enough to mention it's effects on PvP.
PS Blaster changes, Proc changes, Hybrid Incarnate and basically everything else introduced to the game breaks PvP more and more. Not this proc though! -
Quote:I have, as well as the other thread. I suppose I was really arguing against the point rather than asking, but seeing as I like this thread, I didn't want to start anything. I felt it was the most polite way to mention it as an alternative.Originally Posted by Jade Ivy
Sentry, Organica explains why she is starting from 0 in the first post. Rather than me paraphrasing, please read the 1st post of this thread.
The reason is, as stated at the end of this quote...
My point is that anyone -could- ask for money and receive it, since with the kind of environment and market we have, it's impossible not to have rich generous individuals.Quote:Originally Posted by Organica
Restrictions: No AE. No borrowing money from any other character. The whole point is to show that anyone can manage this, starting from nothing.
Organica brought up a good point about people not being comfortable asking, but that's a player limiting themselves by their own measure of ability, which can't be a factor if we have a 7 year vet conducting the experiment.
Also,
Jade Ivy, Organica responds to my post directly after in her post. Rather than me paraphase it, please try to contribute something to this thread. -
Quote:If we assume it's a PUG, even if it's annouced as a badge run, you'll get people who don't care either way about the badge.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If its an announced badge run, I don't think there exists a badge hunter worth the name that wouldn't trade a component for ten threads and an easy shot at ATGS.
I'm one of them for starters. I think I hit 500 badges once by accident.
I won't join a badge run if getting the badge will prolong the trial to long, but it's always a pleasure to team with people who are concentrating on teamwork rather then people just mindlessly grinding. Some of the best and fastest runs I've had are from badge runs.
That being said, I'll usually find one of Snow Globe's posts on what needs to be done so I don't mess everyone up either.
I wouldn't give up 1 thread for a badge (Unless it had a title I fancied), and I could be the guy on any of the badge runs people here run
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Quote:It actually does KD since it's 0.1 KBOriginally Posted by EvilGeko
It actually causes both, but the KB isn't enhanceable.
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Wanted to let everyone know about the new Zone Night advertised at the very top of the thread, for those who might have missed it.
As I mentioned in the thread on the PvP forums, this event was not originally advertised to the public to allow our members to train up with each other. Now that we have more skilled players, it's open to the public.
As I have said at the top, this night should be for those who some experience in PvP or have at least attended several classes and have a PvP build (Not expensive, just PvP oriented). -
I just wanted to let everyone know that every Thursday night at 5PM(PST), 7PM(CST), 8PM(EST) PvP Redux will hold it's weekly "Zone Night". This was originally broadcasted to only PvP Redux members as we had a lot of beginers, but is now advertised to everyone for a bit of a challenge.
It's about time we have some regular PvPers show everyone how it's done.
Feel free to bring any toon on either side. Our best players havebuilt toons on either side and are willing to switch when necessary to prevent simple base camping. -
Quote:If I'm at the end of a Keyes, and the leader allows me to AFK in hospital until it's finished, I know I'd love it. It's less discipline and more "laziness", and you can definitely expect laziness from a PUG.Originally Posted by Lothic
Besides (for the purposes of this thread) I would argue that any league disciplined enough to do the hospital trick for that badge probably couldn't be strictly called a pure PUG in the classical "totally random and zero organization" sense anyway.
If I'm correct, isn't the difference between threads and a component staying with your team anyway? Leader's happy, less work and I got something out of it...and a badge I suppose. -
Quote:In a way, yes and no.Originally Posted by macskull
Range and damage bonuses are DR'd. I'm not sure about HP bonuses, though.
If a power does 100 damage outside of PvP, that won't be diminished in PvP. The actual value isn't DRed at all.
100 Damage outside a PvP zone is 100 damage in PvP zone.
The percentage of enhancement is DRed, but the actual value itself is not. 95% enhancement will be DRed to enhance it -less-, but the value (Damage number) itself isn't DRed.
Think about it, if there was a DR curve on damage numbers, then you'd never get high damage numbers in general. Assassin's Strike would be terrible.
The same goes for range. While the 'slotting' of +range can be DRed (20% --> 19.3%), the actual value of range a power has will not be DRed. 150 ft is 150 ft.
Maybe some just assumed this is always the case, that the full value isn't touched, but it isn't the norm. In fact, in my Domination thread, I showed how even Magnitude is DRed. That's a base value being DRed.
I didn't include all this to clutter, but...
Here's a small list of things unaffected by DR
+HP
Damage Value
Range Value
Movement Control (CJ's +movement)
Movement Friction (Either fly or movement on ice)
Threat Level
Teleport (If lowered too much, not enough mag to actually TP)
Only Affect Self (If lowered too much, the mag would be too small to affect you = Attacking in PFF)
Intangible (If lowered, not enough mag to phase you)
Untouchable (If lowered, attacked right after rezes)
An attack's Radius
An attack's Arc
An attack's Activate Period
Here are some thing you wouldn't think DR affects, but it does (Enhancement + Total Value + Resistance)
Building Fury/Domination (Explains brutes)
Translucency (I thought this was just a visual effect?)
Placate (Hope the Mag doesn't drop too low on some)
Interrupt Time
End Discount
Repel
Fly Magnitude (This shouldn't be DRed, but oh well)
As far as I know, if you enhance -any- power in -any- way through enhancements, that percentage will be DRed. It's called the 'Strength' of the power and as far as I can see it's DRed in every aspect. -
Quote:DR -is- applied to debuffs.Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
In my opinion NOW Diminishing returns should be applied on: RESIST/DEFENSE DEBUFFS and ENDURANCE/REGEN DRAINS AND DEBUFFS because as we can't stack resist/defense because DR is applied to them we neither should be able to stack debuffs on a target without DR. Its logic.
In fact, Resistance debuff and Defense debuffs are resisted first, then DRed even further.
Barely anything is excluded from DR. +HP bonuses, +range, and damage are about it. -
Interesting read, although I have a question.
What's stopping you from asking outloud for some start up cash? The marketing would go much faster and with much less effort if you started with even a small 5 million.
I understand some may find it cheating, but the CoH environment, particularly it's generousity, is part of the game. Not only that, but if a market like ours exist, so does the overly rich who are willing to give some pocket change. You can't have one without the other in our online culture.
I understand the experiment is more for fun and to prove that it's possible even in the worst circimstances, but I thought I'd mention that this is worse then the worst. For any of you who complained about their last project, they didn't take advantage of this in that one either, challenging themself more than anyone would have to in the beginning of the game.
Anyone at all can start up a character, on any side or any server or any time, ask for 5 million in Help/LFG and get startup cash. In any game where I'm trying to understand and learn the economy, I would always start with that.
What could take any of us days in a new game may take a higher level seconds to give an unnoticable amount. -
60/PPM = X
Base Recharge Time + Activation Time = Y
Y/X = Percent chance of it going off
Mako is a 3 PPM.
60/3 = X = 20
Jab = 2 seconds (Rech) + 1.07 seconds (Activation Time) = 3.07
3.07/20 = 0.1535 = 15.35% chance to fire (Worse than regular proc)
Punch = 4 seconds (Rech) + 1.2 seconds (Activation Time) = 5.2
5.2/20 = 0.26 = 26% chance to fire (Better proc rate than normal Mako)
Haymaker = 8 seconds (Rech) + 1.5 seconds (Activation Time) = 9.5
9.5/20 = 0.475 = 47.5% chance to fire (Better than 2 Mako procs)
Knockout Blow = 25 seconds (Rech) + 2.23 seconds (Activation Time) = 27.23
27.23/20 = 1.3615 = 136.15% (Caps at 100% chance to fire)
There are some examples. Though yoy titled it purple procs, I'll use the Apoc proc in a couple examples.
Apoc is 4.5 PPM.
60/4.5 = X = 13.333
This means that if the Base Rech Time + Activation Time is 13.3 or higher, it's 100% chance for 107.1 NE damage (Resisted)
Flares = 2.18 seconds (Rech) + 1 second (Activation) = 3.18
3.18/13.333 = 0.2385 = 23.85% chance to fire (Worse than regular)
Fire Blast = 4 seconds (Rech) + 1.67 seconds (Activation) = 5.67
5.67/13.333 = 0.4252 = 42.52% chance to fire (Slightly better)
Blaze = 10 seconds (Rech) + 1 second (Activation) = 11
11/13.333 = 0.8250 = 82.50% chance to fire (Better than 2 apoc procs)
Now let's look at this closely. In Flares, the original proc has a 33% chance to fire giving off 35.343 damage on average.
In the chain Flares/Fire Blast/Flares/Blast, that gives 70.686 damage on average each small chain.
In Blaze, the new proc has a 82.50% chance to fire giving 88.35 damage each time it's used (on average). In the chain mentioned above, the proc will do more damage on average than in flares. What else is new? You've got more guanteed burst, which is extremely useful.
With a 82.50% chance to fire it off in blaze, you can pretty much depend on it. That means that every Blaze you use (almost every) has the apoc proc fire. That's damage that is more on average -and- dependable. I'm a fan of knowing how much damage my attacks are going to do before throwing them, and PPM helps a lot with that. If only I didn't have to pay for it, and if only they weren't nerfing that aspect.
Worth noting, Activation time is -not- the Arcanatime, but the actual ingame animation time.
Sorry about all the numbers, it's a little difficult for me to explain in words. -
Quote:I have a problem with this kind of line and I've seen it thrown around a lot.Originally Posted by Supermax
Economically, there is no reason to spend time on it. We're too far gone, and of the people that left, most would not come back even if things were changed. Fixing PvP would take an enormous amount of work, and 99% of the player base wouldn't care about it.
PvP isn't popular because it's broken.
Thing is, if they fix PvP, and make it really good, it -would- be popular.
If it was fixed, 99% of the player base wouldn't ignore it.
The percentage of players participating depends solely on the quality of the product, and logic using the percentage of player participation with a terrible terrible product shouldn't be a factor in whether or not it gets help.
If I give you a pizza that's been in my garage for 5 years, and you understandably hate it, that doesn't have anything to do with the popularity of my specialized pizzas right out of the oven.
The reason PvP isn't being fixed is because they don't know how.
If they could bring in someone who could revolutionize PvP in this game, making it fun for everyone, then with high participation levels from players it would be well worth it.
It's not so much that it makes economical sense, it's that they have no clue how to make PvP worth the time investment. They -know- that if they change anything, they're shooting randomly with a blindfold on and it won't be worth it.
The logic that, because it's not popular while broken there's no reason to fix it, is illogical.
If the 4 legged rig was broken in that it couldn't move, it would lose all its popularity. If ever fixed, it would be as popular as it is now.
That being said, some people say that PvP only had 10% of the population at its peak. That's great, but that's not some limit set in stone. If made well enough, PvP participation in some manner could go through 50%, if it was well tuned enough. Players could be drawn to City of Heroes simply for the idea of the PvP system.
I suppose the real problem I have is the logic that
-Fixing it would increase popularity
-It has low popularity while broken therefore we shouldn't fix it?
It goes against itself. It has nothing to do with investments, when PvP could become very profitable with the right quality of work. The real problem is they can't produce that quality of work.
I wish I could agree in that the only reason PvP doesn't have any attention is because they're using their money more wisely, because that's a choice I would make myself. Unfortunately, it's actually because of the lack of knowledge regarding PvP.
Z described it as Pandora's Box because they'd be opening something chaotic they have no clue about. It would take a lot of resources because of trial and error, since they don't know PvP. It would take meetings and brainstorms and talking with the community, since they have no idea where to even start.
Ask Posi his idea of PvP, and he'll mention getting rid of TS/HD as his only idea. One that's been stated for years by players and by far the most obvious improvement. Nothing fancy, nothing spectacular, just the most simple basic concept any one of us could have thought of in any instant.
It's a lack of ability that stops PvP's growth. If they could theoretically hire a new small team of experts to fix the PvP system and make it popular for everyone, I'm sure they could make money off of it, but I'm also sure these devs cannot. -
There isn't much to add here, SoulTouch explained everything nicely.
Force of Nature on blasters is only ever taken for extremely unique situations where the +recovery can be used. I would recommend against it unless someone had a plan that required it.
If you choose Ice Mastery, you -must- get tough in order to get some resistance.
As a rule of thumb, if your epic gives a +defense shield (Frozen armor, Scorpion Shield) it's almost mandatory to pick up tough for +resistance, and if your epic gives a +resistance shield (Fire Shield, Temp Invul) than you can skip on Tough to pick up Phase.
A squishy should have 1 +res toggle, but only one, or else they're wasting power picks and pools for only an extra +3% to +5% resistance (Arctic Air and the likes do not count as 1 +res toggle).
Nobody else mentioned it, but I would like to mention the value of range to a Psi/EM or anything that can spike well. The more range you can get, the more attacks you can fit into your spike chain. At around 160+ range, you'll find that you can pull off...
Will Dom/Psionic Dart/Pyronic/TK Blast
for an extra 300 damage or so, possibly 4 shotting some squishies in an instant, or overall just contributing to the spike even more.
Mids isn't necessary though it's still nice to have. If you've got all power selections, IOs, bonuses, base HPs, numbers etc memorized, you can still use a piece of paper like some of us still do when away from mids. I'd kill for a mobile mids app somedays.
Lastly, a lot of people don't realize, but +recharge is more useful for a Psi blaster than any other primary. Last I checked, even with 200% recharge, Psi blasters don't have a full attack chain.** They'll have a second pause regardless in their attacks, so the more recharge, the less the gap, and the more you can fill the gap with BU/Aim.
**Psionic Dart would need to be recharged in 1.188 (Or 0.9 if we want to get more technical) to go before/after TK Blast. Requiring 500% recharge for 1.188 and 1000% recharge for 0.9 (That's 20 kins speed boosting) -
Quote:As someone who played melee for years, the control hybrid put melees at a bigger disadvantage than ever.Originally Posted by PoisonHeart
i personally didnt see a problem with the control hybrid, it was the only way a melee could actually take down a ranged toon in pvp without them running and jumping all over the place, and i especially dont like the "fix" they made to it since now it does absolutly nothing in pvp zones.
however im glad they fixed the panther and dark holds.
If you could hit someone and permanently disable them, ranged attacks become the only useful attacks, and melees just become easy targets to pick off. You should be thankful they fixed it.
Aside from that, Dark hold durations are still broken and I doubt panther was fixed either. Only possess was fixed for dominators, making Dark even more broken with the long duration hold.
Still, I'm glad they fixed Control Hybrid, that was the biggest issue and I'm glad they understood that. Although one thing confuses me...
"Fixed an issue where Control Radial t4's Stun proc would almost never occur in PvP"
Looking at RedTomax -and- testing, this wasn't an issue at all. It would almost -always- occur in PvP, which is what made it extremely broken. A 10 second stun being constantly applied without a mez timer attached. Hopefully this is a typo and they didn't somehow buff it.
I'm interested in seeing how they changed Control, because it either won't have mez timers and become broken, or it will and the beginning fear will literally cancel every other mez it throws. I'll have to wait until TopDoc updates tomax to see what was done.
Anyone know what happened if you changed alignments in a PvP zone? I didn't see anyone go into base/change align/farm people, and I would suspect people would if possible, like they have in the past.
If they should fix something next, it should be Panther travel power, than dark holds, then Melee giving Status Protection and maybe someday Domination. -
Quote:The changes to snipes haven't been adjusted for PvP, so just like Dark Control, Panther Travel, and Hybrid, we're going to see something totally broken here and something worthless there.Originally Posted by Reiraku
Those might not be as bad in the future, though something with Build Up would likely serve you better. The changes to snipes could make a big difference.
First off, +22% tohit means you need +38% tohit before DR. That means that the typical blaster will only ever get it with Build up or Aim up, assuming they pick up tactics and kismet.
That's kind of a pain, but /Dev can still hit that high with Tactics and Targeting Drone.
The next part is just silly.
Let's look at fire, since that'll be popular with the snipe.
Blaze does 132 Dmg + 56 DoT in PvE, which is 188 dmg. A Time is 1.188. DPS = 158
Snipe does 172 Dmg + 45 DoT in PvE, which is 217. New A time is 1.848. DPS = 117
In PvE, Blaze does 35% more DPS than the snipe, and the devs are balancing around these numbers we get, with snipes still being good but not Blaze worthy good. In PvP however, the damage of Blaze goes down and the snipe more than doubles.
Blaze does 115 Dmg + 56 DoT in PvP, which is 171 dmg. A time is 1.188. DPS = 143 DPS
Snipe does 266 Dmg + 45 DoT in PvP, which is 311. New A time is 1.848. DPS = 168 DPS
Now, the snipe does 17% more damage with some amazing burst.
Are they even lowering the range on these things? Or do all blasters get a base 150ft snipe (more with /Em and PvP Bonuses) that hits like a truck? At a 12 second recharge, you can probably get it to every 4th attack on Fire.
To give everyone some perspective, [Shout] is the hardest hitting blaster attack, doing 208 Dmg. Total Focus only does 239 damage (At melee).
In fact, Blaster KoB only does 298 Dmg, which is only slightly more burst (while less with DoT counted, and the DoT happens quickly), while being Melee again and not having stupid 200+ range with a near instant animation. The fire snipe hits more like TK blast than it would Will Dom for example.
Everyone just give up now and roll a Fire/Psi/Dark blaster. Seriously.
With all I listed above, this, PPMs and every other mechanic they introduce not being tested with PvP, it's becoming a little hard to play PvP lately. If they aren't going to test things with PvP, they should automatically lock it out until they, or players, test it for them. -
My build suggestions for a new player would be a blaster, with powersets from the following...
Any of the Blaster Primaries listed
-Dark
-Fire
-Psi
-Rad
-Sonic
-Ice
Any of the Blaster Secondaries listed
-Energy Manipulation
-Device
-Mental
That's also in a specific order, from easiest to hardest IMO. Ice wouldn't be that bad paired with EM, but it would be pretty bad if paired with /Mental for example. I also wouldn't try /Mental unless you went with Dark/, Fire/, or Psi/.
Not to mention, without being able to tell which builds are good or bad, offering to pay is basically giving money to anyone with a copy of mids, and it attracts the wrong crowd. PMing a specific person ingame for help shows enough initiative that they'll probably give you a lot more help than you'd get here. (I don't mean me, I'm busy for a while) -
I would take Seeds of Confusion, just so that you can use confuse, which is on the separate mez timer than holds. It's great against MMs as well.
I'd take the pet for some extra damage, set bonuses and to aggro other players pets off of you.
I'd also take Carrion Creepers, assuming it did something against stalkers (Can anyone confirm this?).
Maybe Spore Burst for a sleep purple set too. -
I'd ask you to keep an open mind with this, but basically the lack of responses can be explained by the lack of familiarity with the build that the PvPers here would have.
It doesn't look like a PvP build at all. Here are some points with it off the top
-Too many attacks, you need 4 or 5
-+rech proc is worthless in PvP because it only ever hits 1 target
-Damage Procs are unresisted and should be used more often
-Darkness Mastery is never used
-No phase shift or hibernate
-No travel powers
-Empty powers (?)
-Sweeping Cross and Spinning Strike are AoEs (Not favoured in PvP)
-The only reason to choose Energy Aura (Overload) wasn't taken
-Defense is all over the place, instead of the only place it matters (S/L)
-0 Preception
-4 Kinetic Combats instead of 4 Glad Strikes
-No Burnout
-Accuracy is extremely low
-Tohit is extremely low
I could go on and on to be honest.
You also haven't asked what the build should be for.
Zone play? Casual? Melee Fight Club? Planning to Team? Solo?
I can tell you right now, that you want to aim for high S/L defense numbers (Mine touches 70% S/L with 1 Energy Drain), and aside from that your survivability will primarily come from Eye of the Magus/Overload/Burnout/Overload.
You'll want Speed/Fighting for sure, to give you burnout and some survivability. Aside from that, you can choose between Concealment/Tactics if you pick a mastery without +tohit or Concealment/Super Jump if you pick a mastery with +tohit.
There's a lot of work to be done on the build. Feel free to PM me directly ingame with any questions. -
I would disagree.
A stalker's role is contributing to the spike, not making a player waste his/her heals. If a stalker uses AS at the same time a blaster shoots his attack chain, it won't matter how many heals they have up or down.
If a stalker is running around, randomly ASing targets (including me), I do not consider them a high threat, but moreso a bit of disruption. I believe disruption is more suited for other characters (Ranged or with taunt) then stalkers.
Stalkers need to be more patient and wait until a target is called and they have a chance to contribute to the spike (With AS).
I would say Stalkers need patience and movement technique more than anything.
If you are a stalker running around in RV on freedom (or Virtue), please join a team, wait for a target to be called, and try to AS that target. That is the best suited role for a stalker. -
Quote:There is a cap. It's a cap none of us will ever hit though.Originally Posted by LIinfinity
Hi Sentry,
I was looking at your Dark/Poison Corruptor build - the 2nd one you posted. I see that your set bonuses for Range add up to 62.5%. This number is very impressive, but isn't there a cap on all ATs in regard to the amount that range can be enhanced?
I'm pretty sure there is a cap, but don't recall the number.
Try the first mission in the Alpha slot arc. In that mission, with max stats, you have capped range and you'll see what capped range is like. It's insane, and I wish I could get that much in PvP.
All that being said, my break is finished and I'm back. PvP Redux will start to see some action again. -
With focused accuracy, the precep IO and heightened senses, you'll reach perception cap. Tactics isn't necessary, and aside from that, with the enhancable 5% tohit from FA and another 6% from the kismet proc tied with the +20% accuracy from FA + acc bonuses, i'd skip tactics for SJ anyway.