While I'm not a PvPer, I can safely say that, like Incarnates, PvP IOs don't garuntee a match win.
If you were here since Issue 13, I think PvP hasn't changed. I keep getting told the Devs walked away so they didn't upset the fanbase anymore.
I think I was fighting against a Stalker way back when I first got to Purple on nearly all of my Incarnate Abilities. While, true, I had no PvP IOs, I found myself unable to defeat him, and he didn't even have Interface at the time.
It all comes down to what powers you take and how you use them, as well as what set bonuses and IOs you take that can compliment your abilities the most. PvP IOs help, but not entirely.
That is, at least, what i can gather from it.
they broke pvp in back in 12.
Like I said in my original post, there was a brute fully enhanced with PvP ios who was afk and I couldn't even damage him. That truly is unstoppable, and I had decent ios myself.
PVP is currently working as intended by the 5 people that beta tested that have never in their life pvpd. 
A friend was telling me Control Hybrid is still 'broken'.
I went in to rv healed and got TS on me and healed for progressivly less, seems broken to me.
I don't understand...This game isn't dead right? How could PvP (even if it's not a major focus point for the devs at the moment) be this terrible?? Does no one care?
At the player summit they were taliking about new sets and I asked "How will this set work in PvP.". I was told that there was no PvP panel at the summit and to stop asking questions about PvP. I found this to be odd since a new power set would be in both PvP and PvE.
Later I got a respose from a RED TAG who said that this is a PvE game and 90% of the population only played PvE. I was also told that when asked 90% said they did not PvP. I thought obout it and went....okay.
Then I really thought about it. If McDonnalds chicken nuggets tasted like pooo and they asked people "Do you eat our nuggets?" People would say no. If thats the case then you wouldn't say.. lets not fix them. If you make the nuggets taste better... more people order the nuggets. So szaying PvP is broken, but NO ONE PLAYS IT... is because it's broken.
I was also told that they had limited programers who are all working of PvE content and could not spare the time to fix PvP. And all i have to say to that is COYOTE TRAVAL POWER. You had time to make that.
Check out this!!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/LastRoninCoH/featured
Quote:
Nope the game is far from dead. PvP could be this terrible because the devs at that time in their infinite wisdom decided to listen to the wrong person/people and buggered it up in and effort to "balance" things. |
Originally Posted by PvP_Bot
I don't understand...This game isn't dead right? How could PvP (even if it's not a major focus point for the devs at the moment) be this terrible?? Does no one care?
|
PvP at that time needed some work but they just straight up broke it.
A lot of the people that did care left.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
The game is very much alive and is constantly getting new additions, improvements, etc. But only on the PvE side. The reason is basically yes, no one (from the dev team) cares. There are like 100 total players in the game that still care, but obviously there is no point to cater to such a small group of players, when thousands of people are buying items for PvE on a daily basis.|
Originally Posted by PvP_Bot
I don't understand...This game isn't dead right? How could PvP (even if it's not a major focus point for the devs at the moment) be this terrible?? Does no one care?
|
Issue 13 was, in my opinion, as big a failure as can possibly be imagined in a MMO game. They flat out destroyed PvP and drove away many of their most loyal clients. But at this point, they're doing the right thing to stay away from PvP. Economically, there is no reason to spend time on it. We're too far gone, and of the people that left, most would not come back even if things were changed. Fixing PvP would take an enormous amount of work, and 99% of the player base wouldn't care about it.
Quote:
I have a problem with this kind of line and I've seen it thrown around a lot.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
Economically, there is no reason to spend time on it. We're too far gone, and of the people that left, most would not come back even if things were changed. Fixing PvP would take an enormous amount of work, and 99% of the player base wouldn't care about it.
|
PvP isn't popular because it's broken.
Thing is, if they fix PvP, and make it really good, it -would- be popular.
If it was fixed, 99% of the player base wouldn't ignore it.
The percentage of players participating depends solely on the quality of the product, and logic using the percentage of player participation with a terrible terrible product shouldn't be a factor in whether or not it gets help.
If I give you a pizza that's been in my garage for 5 years, and you understandably hate it, that doesn't have anything to do with the popularity of my specialized pizzas right out of the oven.
The reason PvP isn't being fixed is because they don't know how.
If they could bring in someone who could revolutionize PvP in this game, making it fun for everyone, then with high participation levels from players it would be well worth it.
It's not so much that it makes economical sense, it's that they have no clue how to make PvP worth the time investment. They -know- that if they change anything, they're shooting randomly with a blindfold on and it won't be worth it.
The logic that, because it's not popular while broken there's no reason to fix it, is illogical.
If the 4 legged rig was broken in that it couldn't move, it would lose all its popularity. If ever fixed, it would be as popular as it is now.
That being said, some people say that PvP only had 10% of the population at its peak. That's great, but that's not some limit set in stone. If made well enough, PvP participation in some manner could go through 50%, if it was well tuned enough. Players could be drawn to City of Heroes simply for the idea of the PvP system.
I suppose the real problem I have is the logic that
-Fixing it would increase popularity
-It has low popularity while broken therefore we shouldn't fix it?
It goes against itself. It has nothing to do with investments, when PvP could become very profitable with the right quality of work. The real problem is they can't produce that quality of work.
I wish I could agree in that the only reason PvP doesn't have any attention is because they're using their money more wisely, because that's a choice I would make myself. Unfortunately, it's actually because of the lack of knowledge regarding PvP.
Z described it as Pandora's Box because they'd be opening something chaotic they have no clue about. It would take a lot of resources because of trial and error, since they don't know PvP. It would take meetings and brainstorms and talking with the community, since they have no idea where to even start.
Ask Posi his idea of PvP, and he'll mention getting rid of TS/HD as his only idea. One that's been stated for years by players and by far the most obvious improvement. Nothing fancy, nothing spectacular, just the most simple basic concept any one of us could have thought of in any instant.
It's a lack of ability that stops PvP's growth. If they could theoretically hire a new small team of experts to fix the PvP system and make it popular for everyone, I'm sure they could make money off of it, but I'm also sure these devs cannot.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
The issue is one of ego (and quick read this because I am sure to get mod smacked) - the developers listend to people who they are friendly with. Those people are hardcore pve people. We pvp people have a history of not being nice to the developers. Call it a viscious circle they ignore us, we call them fat, they get mad ignore us more, we call them fatter and so on.
So they asked their most loyal friendly folk, "why don't you pvp?" The responses were simple "I go in a zone and get ganked, my mace tank is not good in pvp but super awesome in pve, there are only certain builds in pvp that are good and they dont mesh with my Cat persona..."
and so on.
So the devs took all thier suggestions and lumped them into a few themes
"I attack someone and some other stupid player heals them, it should be like PVE where I can kill NPCs without having to think or use teamwork..I mean LOL they are not AVs...."
Thus we were given Heal Decay
"I attack someone but they run away, it should be like PVE where they stand there and let me kill them"
Thus we were given Travel Supression
"I attack this dominator and he pops domination like three times, and does so much damange and holds me! I mean LOL they are not AVs"
Thus we were given DR....
So TPTB said "if we change all this will you guys PVP?" and the Super Friends all nodded yes!
and they made it so. But the Super Friends were not happy. "My powers don't work like they do in PVE!!!"
"But you said this was how you wanted it!!"
"We don't like it, make us more hats!"
The PVPers who saw all this in beta said "Uhhhhhhhhhh wow" and left.
The sad part is - they could turn off HD and TS easy in zones. It is already a tick in arena. DR is harder because off it makes resisitance insanse and everyone hard to defeat...but 75% of the complaints about pvp are TS and HD.
So why don't they? Ego...(no not that EGO....RAWR)..The devs refuse to admit they made a mistake. They just go on making more hats, and panther stealth, and bird faces..because in the end that is what the Super Friends really want.
Hello everyone.
First I shall present myself. I am basicly a European player who started the game when City of Villain has been created and I joined up for pvp. I have been playing DaoC for long time mainly for pvp and also Anarchy Online (that has been grown and last long because they hear player's advices - And I believe NC-soft do also)
So I am a pvp'er, I ran hundreds RSF to gather HOs to increase my brute energy/invulnerability and some other toons. In that time began PL that was taking like a week at its beginning in warburg, btw cap level was 40 ^^.
I left the game afte E-13 because of the main fix about pvp (and energy transfer) but I left because I was not very happy of the NEEDED changes but it required to be done in my opinion. Who can say that the mezz duration pre-E13 in pvp zone about dominators were not broken ???? You could perma hold people and TK them for a walk all through the map without they can do anything (I had fun doing it but remember fun is not self exclusive)... So it needed a fix.
Stalker could one shot SA any toon under stealth, who can say it need no fix ???
Empath could full health every their team member without being detected because cap perception<cap stealth of the illu empath. So who can say it needed no fix ?
Regen T9 was minimal hp high def no resist X%(>100 of course) heal resist and anyone poping force of nature could one hit them under their T9. So who could ay it needed no up ???
Melee were only meat for range that has no movement penalty so it needed fix why a player can play the other not ??? they added -range in pvp for taunt that make the range AT have to come closer to melee.
Energy transfer was best single target attack/anim time/recharge but it needed to be fix (what I hate because it should be much lower damage but still 1sec with no hp loss instead of what we have now=> why??? because with new environment attack speed is first step to proc max and EM is way the worse set to use any proc and also to kill anyone in pvp)
So all these changes even if I didn't like them were needed pvper knows it: I had one of the very first perma-dom and it was ubber I even give my feedback on my own toons so..
I can't complain about the changes because we seek for balancing game. Unfortunately I doubt it can be so easy.
About some other things like heal decay for example. Now to meet back with old pvp system be an incarnate : Using incandescence allow to avoid heal decay and every good pvper knows it and use it to last longer in battle. the damage output possibly done now make that power very useful to increase your survivability.
Btw everyone know how psy damage were broke for long time in pvp no resist at all. Good they gave a pvp resist bonus to ANY TOON in zone (same for all that grant resist ALL damages). Rememeber defender psy/rad killing everything in zone ! ^^
About build up: I think it should increase only the kind of damages it's dedicated to (fire build up only to boost fire damages-energy build up for energy damages etc... and ONLY EPIK build up can be ANY dmaage type that would be a global balance about the double build up builds)
In 2008 in EU thread I proposed to have the fitness as inherent. I came back this year and it is like this now: that helped I am sure to make everyone able to set up their toon better way.
People complains always but it s better to keep some objectiv view on the game with facts and evidence about something better than complain with no reason nor explaination. Pvpers that left (including me) at E13 did because the easy pvp way was gone. Balance chance to anyone in zone is better and DEV LISTEN TO US. (btw last patch fixed stealth panther in pvp zone)
If they would need a panel for the pvp I would enjoy be in it but they never enquired anyone to be so..
In conclusion pvp is still broken but they work hard to keep fair environment for all every day. It s WAY WAY LESS broken than it was REALLY !
In my opinion NOW Diminishing returns should be applied on: RESIST/DEFENSE DEBUFFS and ENDURANCE/REGEN DRAINS AND DEBUFFS because as we can't stack resist/defense because DR is applied to them we neither should be able to stack debuffs on a target without DR. Its logic.
Well I am defending the DEV team and NC-SOFT because I am aware of every steps they did to make the game better and in my opinion it is now really BETTER.
I also believe than it's easier for people to complain than to learn powers and how to play. First should be learn to play your toon instead of powerleveling it and then complain not to know how it works 
City of Heroes/Villain can grow very much more if pvp is in some very large map area with some pvp goals/rewards/badges etc... Like capture the place/flag.
Anyway I am happy that I just answer I don't specially like to writte but I needed to tell that pvper are not only what has been described. I support Game and Dev Team for their great work just thanks to listen to us and make our game experience better and balance.
Have a good independance day !
Chaos War God, xX-Chaos-Team-Xx
Satan's friend, Death Dealer
Quote:
DR -is- applied to debuffs.|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
In my opinion NOW Diminishing returns should be applied on: RESIST/DEFENSE DEBUFFS and ENDURANCE/REGEN DRAINS AND DEBUFFS because as we can't stack resist/defense because DR is applied to them we neither should be able to stack debuffs on a target without DR. Its logic.
|
In fact, Resistance debuff and Defense debuffs are resisted first, then DRed even further.
Barely anything is excluded from DR. +HP bonuses, +range, and damage are about it.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
Bear with me here, because I'm going to tear this post apart.|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
stuff
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
Who can say that the mezz duration pre-E13 in pvp zone about dominators were not broken ???? You could perma hold people and TK them for a walk all through the map without they can do anything (I had fun doing it but remember fun is not self exclusive)... So it needed a fix.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
Stalker could one shot SA any toon under stealth, who can say it need no fix ???
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
Empath could full health every their team member without being detected because cap perception<cap stealth of the illu empath. So who can say it needed no fix ?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
Regen T9 was minimal hp high def no resist X%(>100 of course) heal resist and anyone poping force of nature could one hit them under their T9. So who could ay it needed no up ???
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
Melee were only meat for range that has no movement penalty so it needed fix why a player can play the other not ??? they added -range in pvp for taunt that make the range AT have to come closer to melee.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
About build up: I think it should increase only the kind of damages it's dedicated to (fire build up only to boost fire damages-energy build up for energy damages etc... and ONLY EPIK build up can be ANY dmaage type that would be a global balance about the double build up builds)
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Titan_Destroyer
In conclusion pvp is still broken but they work hard to keep fair environment for all every day. It s WAY WAY LESS broken than it was REALLY !
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
Barely anything is excluded from DR. +HP bonuses, +range, and damage are about it.
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
In a way, yes and no.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Range and damage bonuses are DR'd. I'm not sure about HP bonuses, though.
|
If a power does 100 damage outside of PvP, that won't be diminished in PvP. The actual value isn't DRed at all.
100 Damage outside a PvP zone is 100 damage in PvP zone.
The percentage of enhancement is DRed, but the actual value itself is not. 95% enhancement will be DRed to enhance it -less-, but the value (Damage number) itself isn't DRed.
Think about it, if there was a DR curve on damage numbers, then you'd never get high damage numbers in general. Assassin's Strike would be terrible.
The same goes for range. While the 'slotting' of +range can be DRed (20% --> 19.3%), the actual value of range a power has will not be DRed. 150 ft is 150 ft.
Maybe some just assumed this is always the case, that the full value isn't touched, but it isn't the norm. In fact, in my Domination thread, I showed how even Magnitude is DRed. That's a base value being DRed.
I didn't include all this to clutter, but...
Here's a small list of things unaffected by DR
+HP
Damage Value
Range Value
Movement Control (CJ's +movement)
Movement Friction (Either fly or movement on ice)
Threat Level
Teleport (If lowered too much, not enough mag to actually TP)
Only Affect Self (If lowered too much, the mag would be too small to affect you = Attacking in PFF)
Intangible (If lowered, not enough mag to phase you)
Untouchable (If lowered, attacked right after rezes)
An attack's Radius
An attack's Arc
An attack's Activate Period
Here are some thing you wouldn't think DR affects, but it does (Enhancement + Total Value + Resistance)
Building Fury/Domination (Explains brutes)
Translucency (I thought this was just a visual effect?)
Placate (Hope the Mag doesn't drop too low on some)
Interrupt Time
End Discount
Repel
Fly Magnitude (This shouldn't be DRed, but oh well)
As far as I know, if you enhance -any- power in -any- way through enhancements, that percentage will be DRed. It's called the 'Strength' of the power and as far as I can see it's DRed in every aspect.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
Nah, I don't think so. Like I said, we're too far gone. If it was like 5 years ago, then yeah. But at this point, people have long been playing CoH as a pure PvE game with no PvP whatsoever. Look no further than all the advertisements, videos, chats, etc made about the game in the last few years. You won't find a single mention of PvP anywhere. PvP essentially does not exist in the game, as far as the devs are concerned. The only reason it still exists at all is that it would take more work to remove it than to just leave it there. People play this game for the PvE, and that's how it's been for years now. If people want to PvP, they find a real PvP game.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
PvP isn't popular because it's broken.
Thing is, if they fix PvP, and make it really good, it -would- be popular. |
The fact is, fixing PvP would take a tremendous amount of work. Keep in mind, PvP was always broken. The phrase "lol PvP" which stood for the devs' attitude towards it was coined years before I13. Then they spent like a year working on I13. THAT was the time to make a difference. That's when they could have made PvP into a truly meaningful part of the game. Instead, they chose to destroy it completely. Now it would take even more work to fix it, because literally every single thing about it is broken.
They'd need to work on removing pretty much every aspect of I13, and then go back to the drawing board from there. Oh and then they'd need to figure out how to balance all the new stuff like Incarnates. Considering the I13 changes that ruined the game took them a year of work, I'd say that changes to actually fix the game would take about 3-5 years. And for what? A chance than some people may become interested? They already took that chance in I13. It failed miserably. Sure, it was 100% their fault that it failed. But to them failure is failure, and they will not repeat the same mistake twice.
I started up my subscription from a year long break just a couple of days ago. The reason I stopped playing a year ago was because of the PvP ios that made people OP to anyone who didn't have them. I had decent ios (certainly no where near PvP ios though). When I entered a PvP area there was an afk brute just standing there, and for 10 minutes I tried to attack him but he would regenerate health faster than I could dish it out. That was absurd and was wondering if this is still the case, where players with PvP ios are automatically going to win against players who don't no matter what?