Are regen scraps/brutes really unbeatable?

I'm at my wits end, I made a def killer who apparently was to little to late. because somewhere between making one everyone switched to regen without me noticing.

I've tried ss. which bugs the heck out of me how my dmg is so low even with 2 rages and like close to full fury, knockoutblow shouldnt be doing only 295 dmg or 320.. its friggan knockoutblow.. I've tried broadsword, Ninjablade. Martial arts(since day 1 of arena) and spines (which spines could beat a regen, you know... before SETS!).my i tried staff as well but no go . Now none of these things seem to work for me.

and each time ive been told my dmg is really slow, specially for superstrength and i don't know what to say to that, in pve its just fine easily hitting over 700 to bosses and such, but in pvp, im lucky if i even see 300 dmg when i hit someone with it.

I really am at my wits end. I remember a time when arena first launched and nrg blasters could easily beat regens with their legendary toggle IH. and i remember when zones first came in and spine/regen was all the rage but if you had spines vs a regen a regen could still be beaten. now.. all that seems gone

All I'm asking for here is a melee attack set that is guaranteed to get a regen to quake with fear in pvp. I know there has to be a combo out there that is really good... Personally i am a huge elec armor fan. soo I want whatever attackset that is supposed to work to work well with that armor. I believe in resistance and some defense is better than all def. after all i did make a def killer =P

I also want to know if it can be done without incarnates. afterall I've been successful at winning matches without ever even unlocking my alpha slot, let alone getting incarnates.

so is there any hope out there? or am i doomed to be forever beaten by regens?

The only thing capable of beating /regen is jblackstar.

wow... really? .. i guess i should just make a ss/regen brute then and become unkillable against other melee toons. seems how it has no weakness >(!

Regen is very beatable. Just not by melee. A half decent player could face roll the keyboard and still never lose to another melee, which is exactly why so many fiteklubbers use them, and why you see so many bad fiteklubbers try to enforce their own special rules to deal with them.

The important thing to know about regens is that their survivability is exponetial. Each addition in survivability multiplies their total survivability by an amount dependent on the size of the existing survivability.

As an example, let's imagine /Regens only have Reconstruction and Dull Pain. The fight would end quickly. When necessary, they would use Reconstruction/Dull Pain/Reconstruction, in that order. They would have no powers recharged, and die.

Let's put MoG in the mix. Now they have Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon. By adding 1 power, they've really added 2 into their chain because MoG gives the regen time to get the other heals back.

Add in IH, you've got Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/IH/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon. Adding 1 power had literally doubled the survivability chain.

Regens now have access to Barrier, Hibernate, Burnout. Not to mention that now it is on brutes, the only weakness the /regen has (killing it in a gap in their chain) is much harder to abuse. They have so much HP (Brute cap, 3202) that it's near impossible to wear them down. The +HP also increases their survivability by a multiple.

The current Regen brute chain is around....

Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/Barrier/Recon/IH/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/DEMONIC/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/IH/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon
/BURNOUT/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/IH/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon/DP/Recon/HIBERNATEorPHASE/Recon/Barrier/Recon/MoG/Recon.

I've done a lot more research and data collection on Fight Club than I wish I could admit. That is the exact chain used by myself and other vet regen players in fight club matches.
That is usually wear the chain ends, it takes over 20 minutes of straight damage to kill a Regen Brute factoring in healing yourself. Then again, hit them with heat loss and see how long they last. Debuffs seem to be the only option.

I'd fought some of the best Regen Brutes with my Claw/regen. What most people don't know is that melee characters actually have higher damage than ranged characters, but only if the target stands still. I couldn't even get a fire blaster to the DPS my claw/regen could pump out (Over 200, factoring resistance, procs, crits etc). Blasters have much better burst, but killing something like a tank, a scrapper or brute can accomplish faster.




To your question, no, there isn't a melee set that can defeat a SS/Regen brute without using an exploit (I know of 3 that have killed regens using something broken). If the fight clubbers decided to be smart, they'd ban /regen and /mace mastery with spiders. Invul, Elec, WP, Dark, SR, EA, Fire and Shield are all balanced really well. I'm not even sure which I'd roll if I got back into it. Regen is an outlier, and while it has always been good, it hasn't been this stupidly good in the past. They're unkillable now.


Also, to the PvP community, -this- is the exact reason I started playing ranged instead of melee. I'm really glad I switched over. I'd suggest playing ranged instead of melee for everyone. Ranged allows more teamwork, and just like PvE, a team of squishies is much more effective than a team of scrappers or brutes. Make some friends, jump on vent or skype, IO some squishies and have fun.

i agree fully on this thread, time and time again i see regen scrappers and brutes dominating the melee field of pvp, its definatly not fair that the ONLY other melee toon that can beat a regen.....is another regen, and this problem has been going on for years, i hope the devs. will work on this balancing issue ASAP.

It's really only an issue for lolfiteklub. In zones or team arena regens are pretty laughable. They have so little damage and die so fast to debuffing that they are only worth looking at if they are the only thing left to target.

Regin™: A solution for skill imbalance

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As far as I've seen the only way to beat regen brutes is with the damage of a claw scrap, dual blades brute, or a scrapper using spiders. Even still you'd have to survive quite a while. My dual blades still took around seven mins to kill decent regen brutes.
I think with hybrid regen will suffer a bit, as well as the new incarnates that will come after it. Don't get discouraged though, just stick with something you enjoy and don't worry so much about beating everything, nothing can.

i heard someone tell me that ice could beat a regen, but even with the slow debuffs a regen scrap with hybernate is still impossible to be beat 1v1 melee, i also tested fire,electric,and dark melee all built for 1v1 arena battles, and all them didnt stand a chance against a regen.

what confuses me the most is why arnt there so many people in a uproar about the broken mechanics on regeneration like we did about kinetic melee, this problem has been going on for years but some people tend to ignore it, but when your in a pvp zone like recluse victory and a see a BS/regen scrap with hybernate talking trash in broadcast chat, there is really nothing you can do, you cant arena the guy because he will win, and most people will only fight withen their faction (melee vs. melee) (ranged vs ranged)

like i said before in my previous post, this has been going on for years and we got to let the devs. know about this.

Agree with pretty much all of this.

My Claws/Regen hasn't been beaten by another melee character in I don't even know how long.

But it's an entirely different story when I'm up against a decently played ranged character with access to some kind of debuffs.

Psi sucks for regen, as well as Cold Domination. In zones, the ones I go out of my way to actively avoid are Psi/Cold corruptors. They can nullify everything I can do all at once, and I really have no answer for it.

Basically, /Regen is the top of the heap in melee vs melee, but it falls apart pretty quick in melee vs ranged.

MrLiberty has a good point.

You're saying that regen is overpowered under a specific set of rules you force yourself to play under

The devs will not balance around player made rules that are not actual rules in the game.

If I make my own rules, say, whoever heals the most is the winnning, I can't complain about emps being overpowered. The devs are going to tell me that balance of their game isn't subject to my rules. Basically, a regen's weakness is ranged toons, and just because you subject yourself to melee only doesn't change the fact that outside of your specific ruleset, regen is not anything special.

This is why duels shouldn't be ranged to ranged and melee to melee only. What could kill a regen easy? A dark defender, which any poison could kill, which a fire blaster might take the poison, but the fire would die to a MM which could die to a fire/ss tank and so on and so forth.
Regen isn't overpowered if you -move-, whether you do that or not is not the devs fault, it's yours.

Run a tourny with regen banned and problem solved. If something is broken in your ruleset, you ban it, like TK in leagues. Why hasn't anyone done this? And why did I only ever think of it after stripping all melee toons? Oh well.

You're sort of missing the point. If you build your Melee right, you will never lose. Its only when you start to confine yourself to imaginary rules that players put into place that there is a chance of someone actually dying.

2 well built well played melee toons will outsurvive the others damage and end in a draw. This is just as true for regen as it is dark armor, SR, or any other secondary out there.

Its sort of like trying to fight club a mastermind while they sit there in BG mode. You don't see people in an uproar that MM's are unkillable if you stand still and try to face tank them because most realize its a pretty dumb idea. Much in the same way standing still and letting a regen beat on you is, they will have higher and longer sustainable survivability. But much lower survivability from spike/burst damage. PvP is and has always been a team sport, no matter how much people want to balance things around 1 v 1's.

My /Regen scrapper outlasts most other melee toons I've fought lately, but most of my matches are 1-0 or 2-0 because the fights are NOT quick.

DM/EA brutes spamming Touch of fear are actually harder to kill then regens. They don't do any damage, but they're technically unbeatable because of it.

So, shouldn't DM/EA brutes get nerfed first? They're even -harder- to kill. Sure they give up damage for their survivability, but so do regens. Clicking heals really hurts DPS.

Know what does more damage than a claw/regen scrapper? A claw/invul or claw/EA scrapper. They hit one god mode button and have full DPS for 6 minutes straight.

Also, I wasn't refering to you ClawsandEffect, my main Fight Clubber was a claw/regen for years, and my friend's Claw/Invul in unstop always out DPSed mine.

While we're talking about that, if you'd like to learn how to skip weapon redraw on a claw/regen, send me a message ingame and I can give you the binds. Increases DPS by a substantial amount and has literally won me matches against other claw/regens who didn't skip weapon redraw.



Also, Arena Night on Virtue tomorrow night for any that want to come. We'll be running 8v8s and have a public mumble server running. Starts at 5PM(PST), 7PM(CST), 8PM(EST).
Ranged Prefered.

So what are the best Incarnates for /regen toons? Should you focus on adding in greater resistance or more regen?