Sarrate

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Highlights;
25-45% Defense across the board
Smash/Leathal Res: 71%+ (Capped 90% [100+%] w/SoW of course)
All other Res: 35-40% (50-55% w/SoW)
Psi Res: 70% (86% w/SoW)

End Drain: 1/sec (w/all toggles on)
End Recov: 3.75/sec (4.25/sec w/SoW)
Regen: 515% [52HP/sec] @1 Foe (881% [90HP/sec @10 Foes)

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I knew those res numbers looked messed up. Right now you have MIDs set to PvP mode (upper right corner, "Mode: PvP"), so you're getting extra resistance to other types from Tough (in PvP it's res to all, not just s/l), that'd explain the inflated numbers. In PvE, you'd have 11.8%-14.3% res to exotic (27.6%-30.1% w/SoW) and 46.1% to psi (61.9% w/SoW).

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To Sarrate: I think it took like, what, I4-ish, for the devs to even get a clue about DPA? So of course you're right, ET was never balanced around DPA in concept, but in reality, it may as well have been. The normalized numbers seem harsh though--I knew it enjoyed a good 50% or better DPE discount, but I'd hate to pay full price for the damage. Maybe just cut down on the incoming damage by 1/2?

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I don't think Castle would go for that, I remember him saying that he wanted ET to have a DPA of ~1.7 scale/sec (no ArcanaTime). That means that their options were to either reduce the damage, increase the cast time, or both. If you add more damage to the power right now, that violates one of the base goals of the animation change. Unless Castle had a change of heart or you provided some very solid evidence to support the change, I don't think he will go for it.

I'm not saying what my opinion is, since my EM experience is pretty limited.

CoD lists the Theft of the Essence Proc as returning 10 end. That sounds right, but double checking in game wouldn't hurt.

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ET's self-damage was balanced against the fact that it was a ridiculous attack, both for DPA and DPE.

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dave_p: Actually, the self damage was for the extra damage and end discount, not the DPA (which wasn't originally a balance factor). TF has a 20s rech and deals 3.56 scale damage; ET also has a 20s rech and deals 4.56 scale damage. Without the self damage component, ET should have a recharge of 26.25s and an end cost of 23.712.

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re: Thunder Strike-like TF/ET

I fiddled around with the power forumlas a bit to try and figure out how Castle balanced Thunder Strike, since it is only partially an AoE (just the eneergy component). Nothing I've tried has been able to replicate it right, but it is quite apparant that it pays for the AoE.

If Thunder Strike was st, it would deal 3.24 scale damage.
If Thunder Strike was a true aoe, it would deal 1.59 scale damage.

Right now it deals 1 smashing and 0.96 energy (1.96 total) with only the energy being AoE. If you wanted either TF or ET to get splash damage, it would take a damage for it. Considering those are the highest DPA powers in the set, adding AoE would reduce its single target prowess even further.


[edit: Oh, there is another option and just asking for the splash as a rule breaking 'extra,' but that would be pretty hard to sell Castle.]

What you're referring to is a bug with Gauntlet where it would hit multiple targets when they were stacked into the same place. It wasn't just ET, all Tanker attacks did that. So no, it wasn't a real AoE, though it was bugged that allowed it to.

[edit: Also, mob stacking is pretty much gone now, too.]

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While I doubt it now, before people said Energy Melee rivaled Scrappers in DPS.

Looking at MiDS, I can't see to figure out how anyone could of done it before, let alone now.

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Several things have changed since those claims were made:

*) We didn't have ArcanaTime, so all dps computations back then were inflated. Short animations (such as ET and EP) were over estimated more so than longer animations.

*) EP may still have been listed as a cast time of 0.57s. (With ArcanaTime, that would be 0.792s. That results in a ~39% higher DPA than it actually was.)

*) Many Scrapper sets (ie: weapons) still had the redraw baked into them. Broadsword, for example, suffered from low dps pretty badly due to this.

*) We didn't have all the IOs we do now, so some things that people use a lot now (purples, Achilles' Heel, etc) weren't possible.

Add all four of those together and it's entirely possible to see how it could be calculated that an EM Tanker could out damage the low end of Scrappers. (Now, whether the erroneous calculations would have held up with proper calcs using ArcanaTime is a completely different question.)

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Anyone know how to keep the forum from resizing avatars? The one I would like to use is about 45 x 45 and looks good at that size. The forum resizes it up to 80 x 80 and the avatar gets pixleated and looks not so good.

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I'd copy the source avatar and paste it into the middle of a new 80x80 avatar. That way your avatar is 80x80, but your pic is still 45x45 inside it.

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So without the fixed recharge, would this be worth taking?

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I vote absolutely.

*) It can be used as a temporary end boost while leveling, which is generally before significant IOs are applied. (I say temporary because the crash is just about as much end as you gain over the 2 minutes.)

*) Combined with Tough allows you to cap s/l res. This makes a huge impact. I wouldn't want to be on an ITF or STF without it.

*) On the rare occasion that you do get mezzed, you can still activate it. It's a rare application now (post toggle-drop change), but it's still worth mentioning. (I've used it this way vs Malta and Ghost Widow - the later when soloing her as an EB or doing the Mender Silos TF.)

Its also up 40% of the time, which isn't bad by any means.

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OK, so global shouldn't work. IO sets seem to be the only way 'round. It's not supposed to work, but they can reduce it's recharge, but no way to make it perma.

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No, SoW completely ignores any form of +recharge. Enhancement, set bonus, buffs, it's completely static - there is no way to modify it, ever.

I just hopped on my WP/Fire that happens to have 22.5% recharge (going for the Aegis f/c def) and 30% global recharge. From when I activated SoW to when it was ready was 5 minutes - its base recharge.

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2? What about the use of epics? Mix of damage due to primary/secondary? Procs? Nah, if you want to go for sures, you got to do 8. 9 when you count for the Total column. Depending on build you may be able to get away with 2 or 3, but me? I'd have to go all the way.

However, I meant the poster himself being told to track these would cause him a headache, specially if he already is asking for help calculating the chains and resistances.

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Ahh, very true. I concede your point.

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Darminiam, I made a calculator you can look at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...fgTw&hl=en

If you want to edit the parameters, log in, then go to File and create a copy, that way you get an editable copy you can toy with. If the duration fields go red, that means you can't kill the target. I made this a long time ago for personal use, never posted it before so you may find bugs while toying with parameters.

It even allows you to enter foe resistance and, in the cases where the AV may has regen buffs, how much regen buff he has.

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Hmm, 1.2 scale / sec is 104 dps, but it's saying a lvl50 AV is unkillable. Bug?

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This is very good, but there seems to be a bug in the way Mids is calculating the Eznyme enhancements.

When I replace them with Straight Defense IOs the overall defensive scores drop (even though the IOs have a higher actual enhancement value per slot).

If you slot Weave and HS with Defense IOs you end up with 44.5% in Energy and negative.

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That is no bug, Enzymes enhance defense by 33.3%. This is a relic from waay back. Def debuff enhancers used enhance things by 33% while def buff enhancers enhanced powers by 20%. I believe it was around I4/I5 where def debuff enhancers were dropped to 20% to match def buff - this was for PvP equality so debuffs weren't unfairly stronger than def buffs.

For whatever reason, Enzymes weren't modified. Due to how HOs work, you can use Enzymes (def debuff) to enhance def buff powers. This lets you squeeze out more def with fewer slots than you normally could.

No doubt, it's a bug, albeit a pretty mild one.

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It also does a better job than getting drunk at burning your overrated brain neurons.

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Starsman: It's not that bad. Instead of having one column in a spreadsheet you have two. Tedious or annoying? Sure.

Of course, I can't attest to the potency of drunkeness at destroying brain cells; I've never been drunk.

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I'm guessing that to figure out how long your fight is going to be, you have to know how much health the AVs have. Where do you find that out?

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darminiam: Find an AV in game and just hover your mouse over their health until it displays. (Here is a screenshot using the Power Analyzer, but it's not necessary.) I generally just use 28k, it's close enough and easier to remember.

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Ok, so how do I figure out my DPS with all 3 mentioned (SS, Energy, Fire) in comparison to the "Big Boy AV's" Resists? Thanks in advance. Or if you aren't tired of putting up the numbers for me Please list them, thanks in advance.

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Well, you can look up “all” enemy resistances in the game here. If you're doing 130 DPS, and the AV has 20% resistance, then you'll do 130 DPS * (100% - 20%) = 104 DPS. But since an AV heals 94 hit points per second, you're really netting out to 10 DPS. Be prepared for a VERY long fight.

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Since "VERY long fight" is a bit ambiguous... that's 45+ minutes long.

Also, when calculating dps for mixed sets it'd be a good idea for you to keep track of the damage components separately. That way, when you run up against an AV with uneven resistance between the types it's easy to just apply the resistance to each type and add them together.

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You can now easily get very high smash/lethal/fire/cold defense [and probably get en/neg as well, I just know Aegis and Kin Combat off the top of my head. ]

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Fulmens: Kin Combat for s/l, Aegis for f/c, Erradication (pbaoe) for e/ne. Don't forget the hybridization of typed/positional sharing half their value for the other form of defense. Now Invuln can slot things like BoZephyr and still get 1.56% e/ne/f/c for the 3 slot bonus, or 1.25% to all six with Guassian, etc. Typed defense got a huge buff.

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Many of my deaths occur with every click power available, they occur so fast.

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Werner: This is my biggest frustration with Regen. Everytime I die in the blink of an eye, I feel extremely cheated. It's frustrating on squishies, but more-so on a Scrapper. You, along with several others, have proved it can still be a strong set, but it just doesn't suit me anymore.

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Yes city of data has been wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]Please tell me when it has been wrong, barring the period between I7 and I9(?) when it wasn't being updated.

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Well, right now Defender Soul Drain is incorrect. On Live it has a 120s rech. (There was a patch note for it to be boosted to 240s, but it either never went into the Live build, or the old values were reintroduced.) I tested it a couple days ago.

That, and Dominators haven't been updated yet.

Still, most times, I'm willing to give CoD benefit of the doubt. It's right far more often than not.

Starsman: I figured as much. It pretty much renders your tool ineffective at determining DB's ranking against other sets. (I don't blame you, combos are problematic to compute dynamically. Even if you had an actual calculator that simulated attack usage, it'd have to look ahead long enough to make sure powers will be recharged in the future.)

Kruunch: Already forgotten. An argument(s) on an gaming forum isn't worth holding grudges for.

I won't lie, that's impressive, Iggy. I wonder what could be done with the 17 leftover slots to actually make it a functional built (better slotted attacks, +maxhp, etc.)

Shield - Yes, it's possible to soft cap, though I've never designed a build to do it myself.

WP - I think it'd be extremely difficult to do as a Scrapper... even more so without neglecting other areas. I've barely managed to design a build that's close as a Tank (42% sl/, 45% e/ne/f/c) and that's including the hyper expensive PvP IO (last IO I need). A Scrapper that's only getting 75% Scrapper numbers? Not so much. (A Scrapper would need to make up ~4.2% s/l and ~8% e/ne/f/c to make up the difference. That's WP, Weave, and CJ.)

[edit: Oh right, and a Fire/WP would lose Combustion, so that's another 3.13% e/ne def to compensate for.]
[edit: I did pass on Maneuvers, though.]

That's just raw defense. If you're interested in an actual survivability comparison between the two sets, that I cannot answer. I don't have experience with either set on a Scrapper, so I'll defer to someone else.

Ohh! Apologies, I misread that. Hmm, CoD lists Dark Blast as 41.71 dmg in PvE and 71.08 dmg in PvP and Gloom as 73.44 dmg (8*9.18) in PvE and 84.08 (8*10.51) in PvP. (Gloom's cast time is 0.1s slower than Dark Blast.)

I'm guessing it's a MIDs mistake. I'll try to remember to test it tomorrow.

Damage is based off of activation time now; all attacks have the same DPA (not counting ArcanaTime). Longer animations deal more damage while shorter ones deal less damage.

If you want to see a very pronounced case of this, check out Spines/Barbed Swipe vs Spines/Ripper for both PvE and PvP.

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Ice Melee is not only the worst ST damage but also the most end inefficient set almost tied up with Dual Blades that is inefficient due to Blinding Feint spamming.

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Including, or discluding combos? The BF -> Attack Vitals is pretty end efficient, iirc. (Forgot how much recharge that requires to attain, though.)

I was a useful mooch, though! Only one with a rez.

[edit: I hit 49 before the Rommy fight, too!]

According to City of Data, it has a 240s recharge. Is this just a display error in Real Numbers or an actual bug with its recharge?

I'd test it, but I'm on a team atm. I'll try to remember to do it after, though.


[edit: Confirmed, it has a recharge of 120s. It's bugged. Perhaps the old 120s rech was reintroduced in I15? It would make sense since CoD is still running off I14, I believe.]

1/22/09 Patch Notes
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* Assault Rifle - Buckshot - Reduced animation time to 0.9 seconds.
* Assault Rifle - Beanbag - Reduced animation time to 0.9 seconds.
* Assault Rifle - Sniper Rifle - Reduced animation time to 0.67. (Interrupt time not changed)
* Assault Rifle - Flame thrower - Reduced animation time to 2.33 seconds and DOT effect now starts immediately.
* Assault Rifle - Ignite - Increased recharge to 20 seconds.
* Assault Rifle - Full Auto - Reduced animation time to 4 seconds.

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[edit: I don't think activation time or radius were touched.]
[edit: ...of Ignite that is.]

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I think it would make more sense to simply remove the tohit debuff in pvp zones and allow RTTC to stay toggled on, regen or no, when mezzed.

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Yeah, I could live with that. It would hurt WP's ability to draw aggro, but street sweeping in a PvP zone on a team is even more rare.