Old_Lord_Recluse_NA

It's never fun to admit a mistake but I spoke in error.

There are a lot of things going on here and I made an assumption based on information I thought was correct. That's not the case. I'm sorry for adding to the confusion. My PM should be disregarded in this case.

Again, sorry for the wrong info.

Zeb

What makes you think you've seen the Crab Spider models?

It's concept art for the Arachnos Crab Spiders.

Post deleted: Stuck it on the wrong thread.

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What we know.

- You cannot get raided unless you have an item of power. So you can easily make it so your base cannot be raided. If you *want* to get raided, just go get an item.

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True

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- There's only a small window of a few hours that your base can be raided, and you get to set when that is.

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True

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- Only one raid attempt can be made within that time. That means you could have your buddy, raid your base each day with his 1st level healer, fail miserably, but be able to block anyone else from raiding you.

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Sort of true. First , he's going to need a base with specific equipment in it. Second, there will probably be a hefty fee to schedule a raid (in part to discourage this). Third, there are limits based on the items of power both groups have. Fourth, you're betting he gets his raid scheduled before someone else does.

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- We also know that each base will have teleporters, objects that can block phase shift and stealth, turrets, and tons of other defenses. Meaning, it could be very possible that a 10 team party of heroes could raid you at 4am, find no one, but get killed from the base defenses before getting to the item of power.

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Only if you set your raid window for 4 AM. Personally, I wouldn't rely on defenses only to protect my base. Guilds have tried this tactic in other games ("We'll set our time for 3 AM. Nobody will raid us at that hour!") only to have it go horribly wrong.

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- Since bases can have teleporters, there's really no need to gaurd your base. You can do missions or whatever, and have your super computer notify you and teleport to your base to defend it on the fly. *No need for camping*

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Not how things are going to work.

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- A base raiding team of 10, might find a once empty base now filled with 40 heroes.

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Nope.

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Now for my opinion part, I think the deck is stacked so heavily on the base defender side, that giving them notice on top of it, is just over kill. Especially if base raiders are thinking, "Well, we can either fight 40 heroes, 30 turrets, 20 End/Health sapping crystals, 50 trip mines, and 10 proximity bombs--all attacking us while we're trying to break through the 10 force walls, 20 armored doors, and naivgating through the 10 dead end decoy hallways....OR...we can just go on the mission and get our *own* item of power.

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While it will be a challenge for the attacker, it won't be as heavily stacked as described. You can't just cram your base with defenses; there will be limits. Defenses are meant to supplement and hinder, not overwhelm and crush. Furthermore there's more than one way for the attackers to succeed at their raid, so designing just to keep them from reaching your vault won't guarantee your defense. You're going to need people spread throughout your base ready to react to other tactics.

Ultimately the goal is to make this fun -- for both sides. That means not frustrating for the defenders because they got raided without warning or have to spend all their time standing around their base "just in case" and not hopeless for the attackers because the odds are so stacked against them.

Sure, scheduling is not "real world", but there are a lot of things in games that aren't.

One of the first rules of game design is that when realism conflicts with fun, fun wins.

The goal of base raiding is to make it an event, something both sides can look forward to, strategize for, and participate in. Unannounced raids might be "realistic" (and I use quotes here because we are talking about a comic book) but they sure aren't much fun for the defenders. If I have to be on line all the time, am forced to bail missions because I have to go defend my base, or find someone trashed our base at 11 AM just because my SG has to deal with real-life things like jobs and work, well that is not fun.

To be fun, a base raid has to feel exciting -- and fair. That means fair to both sides. That means giving both SG's notice so both groups can organize their members, make arrangements to be online and develop plans. Scheduling will actually strengthen SG's -- it gives them more purpose, more "We need to be online at this time."

We are also looking at some other options for "instant raids" for pick up play, but again finding ways to keep things from being a no-fun grief fest.

Okay, you shake the Magic 8-Ball and this is what you get...

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1. When will it be released? (Can't really be answered until it's actually released, but still deserves to be the #1 question.)

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You're right. Can't really answer this yet.

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2. When will beta start? (see above)

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See above.

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3. What do the new archetypes mean?

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Hmmm. They mean you get 5 new archetypes that don't match up exactly to any of the CoH archetypes. We want them to feel different and match the roles of various villian concepts you see in your favorite comics. And we want them to work together as a well-balanced team. Bad guys work in groups too, after all.

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4. What are the powersets?

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The powersets for villains are a combination of existing powersets, others with a few new powers, and some wholly new powersets. All these are used to create the new archetype concepts we have in mind. So you'll see villains using a combination of powers you know and some entirely new things.

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5. Are villain origins the same as hero origins?

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Yes. The origins pretty much cover the bases.

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6. How will people be able to grief?

7. How will griefers be dealt with?

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If I knew all the answers to the first question, I'd be able to come up with all the solutions to the second. While we're doing everything we can to think of possible ways to grief (and using our experience from other MMO's), I have unbounded optimism in the creativity of some players to find new and exciting ways to make life miserable for others.

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8. If villains can receive missions, what are they like? What are the different types?

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Yes, missions are still a big part of the game. Of course we want them to be more villainous and we are looking at ways to give them more variety. Another non-answer.

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9. Minions: how do you get 'em, what can you do with 'em? What do they look like? How do they act? etc, etc, etc.

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A lot of this ties in with stuff related to archetypes. That's all I'm saying for now.

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10. What does it mean when they say villains are proactive?

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We want to give you a little more control over your destiny. Villains should not always feel like they are servants of the people (as a good hero would). You're in this for yourself. However, note that I say "a little" -- for a good deal of your history there are still those more powerful than you who may have demands and tasks for you.

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11. Bases: how do you get 'em, what can you do with 'em? What do they look like? How do you attack/defend them? Do you need to own CoV to get one? etc, etc, etc.

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You build them, buy them, and pay rent on them. They will look as good as your design sense allows. Supergroups will be able to attack other bases if that base has made itself open to raiding. You can have a base that can't be raided, so long as you avoid collecting certain things.

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12. How do you interact with NPC heroes?
13. How do you interact with non-hero NPC's?

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About the same way as heroes interact with villains now. As a villain your enemies are not only heroes, but the competition.

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14. How does CoV overlap with CoH in terms of geography?

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Mostly nearby, although we might have surprise or two up our sleeve.

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15. PvP: a million questions. When, where, with whom? How do missions and minions enter into it? If you avoid PvP, how much content do you miss out on?

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Less than a million answers -- You'll be able to PvP heroes and villains -- but only those who want to be part of PvP. This is not a "I challenge you to a duel, Black Fang! Okay, Hero Guy, I accept," kind of thing. Consent depends on where you go and the choices you make. You won't get ganked in Galaxy City, no matter what. We're building goals for PvP, so you'll want to play it, so if you are a dedicated PvE player, your friends may have PvP badges, titles, or a temp power you won't earn.

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16. Costumes, etc: What kind of body size and shape options do villains get? Costume options?

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Of course villains get cool costumes. It's the law. They will get new pieces along with some of the existing pieces to make a villainous fashion statement. Villians are often more physically "interesting" than heros so we're looking at things we can do there, too.

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17. Will villains have enhancements like heroes?

18. Will villains have inspirations like heroes?

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Yes.

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19. Will there be loot?

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Maybe.

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20. How do villains gain xp?

21. Do villains have influence? Or what?

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Villains gain xp in ways similar to heroes -- by accomplishing things and defeating their enemies. They earn Infamy instead of Influence.

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22. What is the the goal for the villains? Besides leveling up, what are they trying to do?

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That will depend on you. Of course there is leveling, but there are other goals along the way. And in the end, there may be some choices to make.

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23. Will CoV share CoH servers?

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I'm not answering. Nyah.

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24. What power pools do villains get?

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No answer at this time.

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25. Do PC villains ever go do jail?

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Maybe.

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26. Monthly pricing for CoV, and for CoV+CoH?

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No answer at this time. It's an issue for people who are not me to address.

Given the date, I thought I should post something. However, one of these things is not true.

<ul type="square"> Icon doesn't operate in CoV territory. If you want a costume change, you go to the Facemaker.

Killer mimes.

There are 5 new archetypes in CoV.[/list]
I love being evil!

Okay, I'm a villain, but I don't believe I ever said I'd like to see an increase in the sub rate. I have no idea what the plans are although many things have been discussed.

As I have said, this is a decision that involves NCSoft and not Cryptic alone.

"Patience, young--"

Oops, wrong world!

I understand everyone's desire to know more. You may have noticed that we're already starting to talk a little more about CoV. It's a tricky balance between showing too much too early and being too mysterious. Rest assured the pace and depth of information will be gradually building in the next few months -- although we're not going to reveal all our secrets. We want to save a few surprises for the release after all!

Sorry, there's too many ways to break this. It's hard, almost impossible, for us to automatically know an attack is "unprovoked". What if the lowbie is part of a group of higher levels? In that case I'll make sure all my PvP groups have one low-level toon just to trigger the drones (and kick him from the group right as the battle starts just in case you try to say he was part of a higher level group). Drops out of SK mode (which would be a griefing trick for sure)? What if you accidentally catch a lowbie in an AoE intended for a different group?

Second, alpha strike style punishment is seldom the best solution. Such systems can usually be exploited or misapplied which only upsets players who try to work within the system (especially if the punishment is misapplied to them). As soon as such a system is seen is flawed it can ruin people's opinions of PvP, even if it is never applied to them.

Our goal is not to punish players after the fact, but to create systems that remove the possibility. Toons need to be at least 15th level for standard PvP. PvP zones will have security levels applied to them (somewhat but not exactly like hazard zones). Missions will involve a matching system. None of these are guarantees but they should reduce the opportunities. For base raids and arenas (where matchups can potentially cover a broad range) players will need to volunteer to take part, so there is an implied "do at your own risk" to these.

Nonetheless, it is good to see the suggestion posted. Every idea generates more thought and has the potential to trigger a great solution or remind us of a case we overlooked.

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How about this then:

The target is considered "even level" relative to your attacks.

So, a level 10 attacking a level 40 would have the same chance to hit as if he was hitting a level 10, and do the damage he would normally do against a level 10 (which the 40th would laugh at, but get enough 10ths attacking him and it should eventually worry him)

Conversely the 40th attacking a 10th will still wipe the floor with him, damage wise, but if that 10th level had defence buffs (SR scrapper with bubbles - for example) then the chance to hit him would get "floored" rather than getting jacked because of level.

If I was a 10th against a 40th, 1 on 1, I expect to get pasted, but if enough of us gang up on him, I want at least a *chance* that we can pull him down, granted some of us are going to be worm food, but I expect that.

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This is actually a much better description of how the "monster code" works.

Oh -- and everyone let's be calm. There's still a lot of time and a lot of testing before anything is finalized.

As I said, there ARE things that can be done and we're looking at them right now. It may not be a level range cap but there are things...

The problem with scaling damage up or down based on target level is that you're basically denying the higher level player the just reward he's earned for leveling his character. If a level 10 shooting at a level 40 does 40th level damage, what's the point? They should not be on a equal footing. The 40th level player has presumably worked hard to earn his extra hp and his larger damage, so it is unfair to strip that from him. Scaling up the level 10's damage to the level 40's equivalent does just that.

PvP needs to be fun and something that doesn't get abusive. However, that doesn't mean a 1 on 1 fight has to be fair. If I decide to pick fistfight with a grizzly bear, well, I expect to lose. You can even give me a knife and I'll still expect to lose. That's just common sense. A level 10 should know that picking a fight with a level 40 is suicide. It should be common sense. At the same time the system needs checks and balances so the level 40 isn't deliberately hunting level 10's just so he can gank them.

There ARE things that can be done -- both to reduce ganking (I'm not promising it will ever completely go away) and allow a broader level range in PvP combat. Lower levels should have a chance to attack and defend themselves, even if it is hard. As we implement them we're going to test them internally and the ideas that survive that test will then move on to various stages of beta testing.

So at this point I won't say just what our plans are (because I like to test things first), but I just figured I'd shake the web here.

Lord Recluse

Hmmm, I forgot that one....

To try to lay this thread to rest (again), here's what can be currently said.

1. CoH is not required to play CoV. You can buy CoH and play it, buy CoV and play it, or have both.

2. Pricing is something NCSoft will announce. They have not made any announcement yet. Please rest assured, they are very aware of your opinions and concerns.

The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?

Servants on the other hand is an interesting idea.

Well, I've been reading through the threads and wearing out my brain working on Base issues (no, I'm not revealing our secrets yet!), so thought it was time for a fairly simple question.

What emotes do you want for your Villian?


I, for one, want a large gun that pops out a "Bang" flag.

Ah, but it's D&amp;D's 30th, not mine. Let's just say I'm a bit older (and not a Libra).

Please -- no conspiracies, no evil plots; it's just common sense.

Right now we are in the early stages of things. We have a lot of ideas about how we want things to work and what will happen. Some only exist in our heads, some are worked out on paper, and a few are starting production. But...

"There is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip."

I've worked on projects where the developers come out early and say "We're going to do this and it will work like this," etc. And you know what? Things changed for all sorts of good reasons -- the system architecture didn't allow it; it was going to take 10 man-years of work to implement; somebody came up with a better idea; and, even, it just wasn't fun.

Right now, if I said "We're doing X," I might not be lying, but that's no guarantee it will happen that way. It is far better to actually get our designs implemented and further down the path and then say, with a lot more certainty, how CoV will work. You'll get better information that way.

So what will help right now? You ideas, especially constructive ones. Just posting "PvP will suck because..." isn't nearly as useful as "I've got a suggestion for how to make PvP fun..." I've seen some good suggestions on these boards which have helped me think through some of the challenges.

And so as not to just complain myself I'm going to start posting some questions to the forum -- things that hopefully get you thinking about those good ideas.

Since it mentions design is underway for PvP, so it's recent, because that's what I've been doing.

Am I going to tell you what we're planning? At this stage? Are you mad?!

Well, I checked with our marketing guy, and to our knowledge your 60 day cards should be vaild for any NCSoft title, not just CoH.

I kinda like this. Not saying it's going to happen, but it's a good idea.

I think this is the only date I will comment on, because it is unfair to raise your hopes that much.

No, it's not true.

When a player deliberately (and consistently) makes the game unfun for other players.

Usually this consists of things like:

Harrassment
Deliberately preventing others from completing missions/gaining xp
Finding ways to kill/injure non-PvP players (training high-level mobs onto low levels, etc.)
Using exploits in the game system (things that weren't intended) to kill/injure/harrass players
Deliberately preying on players in PvP who are hopelessly outclassed (spawn camping/sniping newbies, for example)
Broadcasting insults about x player, x hero, lamers, etc.

Generally griefing is pretty obvious -- you step into an area, BLAM! get wasted before you can do anything, and then get a tell about how you are lame and so-and-so is superior because he just worked you because you are lame -- well, that's griefing. It can be a little trickier than this but it's like what Justice Stewart said about pornography -- "...I know it when I see it."

One of the goals as a designer is to create systems to make it hard to do griefing -- without being overly restrictive. It's not easy.

It is important to remember that we, as players, are a community and the game is about community play, even if you do nothing but solo. Just doing what you want at the expense of the enjoyment of other players (not characters, but actual account-holding players) is not in the spirit of the game.