Nethergoat

castle said it somewhere in this very thread.

it doesn't seem to be aimed at any particular player demographic, more at correcting an old design choice that's become more and more of an anachronism over the years.

As far as the playerbase goes it's a win for everybody, casual and min-maxer alike.

Awesome.

like I said.....every word out of his mouth yadda yadda yadda.

=)

Most of my characters have a power or two that's either situational or looks cool but isn't as generally useful as whatever I end up taking instead....this will make space for them.

And I haven't checked it out in Mids yet, but I expect that 3 new power options will be a help in the quest to soft-cap my ar/dev for range.

this is it in a nutshell.

the prediction that some significant number of players will flock to Vengeance, creating an epidemic of UberTeams running roughshod over the game requires completely ignoring six years of accumulated player behavior.

I've read it and understood it, which is one more hashmark on the achievement board than you've managed.

I eagerly await the inevitable nerf to Vengeance that your tidal wave of new adopters will bring.

=)

I dunno, I just ended up overriting a bunch of 'good' stuff on the Goat (positrons and the like) because I was too annoyed by the process of respec'ing to do more than one. I could easily have done three without running out of expensive stuff to pull.

IMHO it's never less than tedious and boring, and becomes genuinely tragic on one of those maps full of Paragon Protectors.

It's lazy game design and I wish they'd do away with it. If they want to create a perception of difficulty they should make enemies more dangerous, not more annoying.

I'm not seeing it as making anything "tighter", I'm seeing it as vastly increasing flexibility in how we build our characters.


Anything that gives us more options in this arena is an unalloyed good.

vengeance is closer to learning the market than, say, Fireball.

There are steps involved in utilizing Vengeance that are not present for most of the other powers in the game. Each one of those steps will shed some % of players who might otherwise have taken the power. It has two prerequisites, it needs a team to be useful, it takes a corpse to activate.

These are not inconsiderable hurdles in a game where mashing a couple of attack buttons is the totality of most player's tactical understanding. Your insistence on pretending otherwise speaks poorly for your argument.

Who is this "you guys"?
I've never mis-characterized your position in this thread.
it is instructive that you yourself dabble in a behavior you condemn in others.

Except people don't choose powers randomly, they mostly choose stuff they think will be fun.

What looks less fun than Leadership to most players?
Presence, maybe?

Hardly anyone will be taking Vengeance.
If you want to move the goalposts until that satisfies your requirements (which began at 20%), be my guest.

The number of people adding Vengeance to their builds will not be statistically significant and will not change game balance in any meaningful way.

They aren't stupid, they're just incurious and lazy.
Vengeance isn't something that's going to appeal to lazy, incurious players.


You can't convince enough players in this game of ANYTHING to make a meaningful difference.

If there was a bug with Vengeance that caused you to get x2 XP while it was active, then you'd see a MA Meow Farm style rush to add it to builds.

The problem you run up against with a performance based argument is that you're dealing with a game where a well built character can solo a mission set for +4/x8.

Any not completely retarded PUG *already* steamrolls everything they run across. I'm not seeing how "wow this buff is great and will make everything easier!" is the big sales pitch you think it is.

That's a fine idea, since neither is true.

I've been part of an ad hoc organization dedicated to making everyone in the game rich since I9 added the market to the game. We even have our own forum.

We've succeeded so spectacularly that the devs have to keep thinking up new ways to hand out rewards because too many player can't be arsed to print their own money using our detailed instructions and buy them on the market.


You can proselytize all you want, people won't take a power they don't want to just because it's good.


people have to take it, get on a team, have someone die, remember they have it and fire it off for that to happen.

That's about three steps further than most players are willing to travel for a payoff.

You haven't backed up anything, you've just explained why it makes sense for people to take Vengeance.

I'm not disagreeing it's a good idea, I'm saying they're simply not going to do it.

You're not going to get anything approaching that number.

Taking Vengeance requires a tiny little bit of forsight- "oh, hey, if I fired that off on a big team it would be epic!"
That's more than 99.9% of the playerbase will ever exhibit.

fun as in you hit a button and WOW THAT'S COOL!

fun as in it looks like something neat when you're leveling up and check out the power description at the trainer.

Vengeance is a fabulous power hardly anyone takes.
Giving them more chances to take it won't improve its market penetration by a meaningful amount.

neither, provided the story is compelling and the characters well drawn.

Plucking just one example from modern pop culture, there isn't really anyone in either Godfather movie I'd want to identify with or cheer on, yet they deliver one of the signature cinematic experiences available.

my fire/ice uses RoF to excellent effect.

=)

they don't.

people will use these 'free' powers for all kinds of random stuff they think is fun.
very few will use it on a 'not fun' power that takes a corpse to activate.

if my years around here have taught me anything, it's that very few players pay any attention to making efficient choices. I'll wager more people will use a stamina pick on Flurry than Vengeance.

when did listening to player feedback become a bad thing?

I'm glad they're taking the time to improve the system rather than shoving it out the door before it's ready.

I'm sure they're heartbroken.

so the optional purchase of some emotes carries as much weight for you as a free fundamental improvement to "pretty much" every character you create?

Wowza.

To some folks around here any sign of happiness or contentment is the MARK OF THE FANBOY.

=P