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Bots/Traps is ridiculous. Once I got my PPP Shield, I am virtually softcapped to Smashing/Lethal (a fraction of 1% away) with NO IO SET BONUSES at all. It is not fast to set up all those traps, but it is very safe and quite powerful. I would love to team mine with a Grav/Anything.
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Quote:It depends on your definition of "Soft Control." Some folks consider "soft control" to be anything that does not set up Containment -- which means Sleep and Immob are "hard controls." Some folks consider "soft control" to be anything that does not prevent the foes from shooting back, which make Sleep, confuse and fear into "hard controls." Some Folks consider "soft control" to be anything that draws the attention of foes that is not a Hold or Stun.The only 'soft' control in Illusion is Spectral Terror, Confuse, and the sleep that occasionally ricochets off of Blind and pops a nearby other target. Soft control isn't really grabbing enemy attention with Phantom decoys, unless you want to get really technical with it.
I consider the "distraction" from Phantom Army to be a "soft control," to some degree because PA is in a Control powerset. It is, in some ways, similar to a confuse power causing the foes to waste their powers on somebody other than me and my team. -
There are several reasons to take Ice Armor:
a) It has the best taunt aura of any tank primary -- if you want to skip Taunt, this armor set can do it more easily than any other. Plus, Chilling Embrace adds Slow and -Damage, too!
b) Some people like the concept of Ice Armor. And some people want a Defense-based armor that is typed instead of positional and isn't Stone.
c) Endurance -- wonderful endurance recovery makes it a good pairing for a high endurance-using secondary.
d) A nice AoE damage aura -- and the other armors with a damage aura are Resistance based, except Stone, which is ugly. -
Quote:To get even stupidly pickier, Phantasm also spawns his own pet.Oh yeah that. Well kind of. Illusion is such a strange offshoot that it's hard to quantify it against other sets. It gets one "standard" pet, and that's more what I mean. The standard, buffable, with-you-till-it-runs-out-of-HP kind as opposed to the invulnerable, unbuffable Illusion-only type.
But the Decoy is also a invulnerable unbuffable type.
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I found that Electric's benefits are large, fast moving teams are less than Earth control. This is mostly because the Sleep patch becomes less effective when AoE powers with DoT are used, as they invalidate the control aspect of Static Field. Rain of Fire, Ice Storm, Freezing Rain, etc have no problem with Earth Control.
Plus, much of the endurance drain requires the controller to go into melee, while an Earth controller can stay at range and even hide behind cover -- safer. -
Quote:To find my Ill/Rad guide, just click on the link in my sig. Even if you do not have Radiation as your secondary, there is a lot in there that might interest you.I did not take hover.. That is a very true statement on hover vs Gi.. I'll definitely take a lok at your guide! I didn't know it was out there..
You said when SI supresses it goes to half it's value. Is that true for all toggle invisibilities? This question is sorta unrelated since I'm thinking of a energy Armor brute's Energy cloak and how it suppresses and figure you'd know.
No, most other stealth powers do not supress . . . but they are Stealth, and not full invisibility. I think the idea behind the supression is that once the foe knows you are there, the foe is more likely to hit you. But regular Stealth powers only work from range, so suppression isn't needed. -
Quote:I was able to get a Perma PA build without having to take GI as a mule power. The only purples I have is the fairly cheap Confuse set. Take a look at my Perma-PA build near the end of my Ill/Rad guide, and it might give you some ideas.Yeah in the build I was planning I'm looking for GI to be a place holder for an LOTG. I think I've got CJ too I need to go back and check.

Thank you sir! most appreciated!
I hate having to waste a power choice just as an IO mule. I really didn't want to take Combat Jumping on my build, but at least it provides good maneuverability and Immob protection -- which is better than an invis power you don't need. Did you take Hover? That might provide at lease some benefit over GI. -
I agree. With Recoloring, Rad can be almost anything. It can be the aura imposed by your character's magic that can be sensed by your character in his blindness.
And Ill/Rad is very, very popular for good reason, as you can see from my guide. Many of the good powers come early in the build, so you don't have to wait forever for the character to mature.
On the other hand, Ill/Storm is also a wonderful combo, much more chaotic but lots of fun. You have to limit much of the chaos when on teams, though. It is also demanding on endurance and has no Recharge, Recovery or self-heal buffs. -
Quote:Yes, the defense can stack . . . but the defense in SI gets suppressed to half whenever you do most actions, like attack, click a glowie or get attacked. So, of the total 4.5% Defense, you only keep 2.25% after suppression. If you are only going for the Defense, then Combat Jumping provides the same amount of Defense (2.25%) after suppression for a LOT less endurance. Maneuvers gives 2.625%, but that minimal extra amount costs a lot more endurance (but you can share it across the team).I know that the stealth effect of SI and GI are the same (one being a toggle for self and the other being a clicky you can grant to the whole team and self).
But can the defensive bonuses of both stack together? Mids says yes, but sometimes Mids does things wrong.
GI keeps its Defense, but it is only 1.875%. Again, if you are going for Defense and not Invis, then Combat Jumping is better, and you get immobilization protection, too.
Both SI and GI go past the Stealth cap, so stacking them provides almost no benefit -- you might be able to get a little bit closer to a foe with +Perception, but that is probably not worth a power pick. -
Quote:Well, thank you. I'm glad it was a help!Wow thanks for the followups, great!
I never noticed repel on hurricane, glad to know... That'd have cost me a few deaths before I realized it.
Also, Local_Man, your guide is, I believe, the reason I first played an Earth/Rad. Thanks for the strategy tips! They'll definitely help us out.
Storm is my second favorite secondary, and not by a large margin. However, I had been in the game for a while before I finally started my Ice/Storm. It is more challenging than other secondaries because the powers can be misused to create far more problems than benefits -- it takes some strategy and practice to get the most out of the wide range of tools. If you throw out everything at once (like you can do with Rad, for instance), you will end up with a mess. And since the set has no self-heal, you have a thinner margin for error than others.
Storm has a few powers that are situational, and it takes some consideration on when to use them right. Hurricane is a situational power, but can be a huge help for (a) re-positioning foes, (b) applying a substantial -ToHit Debuff -- with practice, you can learn to "kiss" foes with the outside edge of the 'cane to apply the debuff without the Repel, or (c) panic button moments when you need a "get out of my face" power. However, if you leave it on all the time or do what you originally suggested, you'll be blowing foes all over the place.
Some of the powers in Storm may be important or not important, depending upon your primary. My Grav/Storm skipped O2 Boost because he can't heal his pet. My Earth/Storms skipped Snow Storm because they already have a great AoE Slow power in Quicksand -- but they miss the -Recharge from Snow Storm. Thunderclap was skippable on my Ice/Storm because Ice has no stuns to stack with it, and T-clap is only a Mag 2 stun.
Expect a learning curve. But Storm is so much fun, too. It is very flashy and very, very effective -- but plan to slot for Recovery. -
Quote:I think that will be a terrific combo. I would have suggested Earth/Storm but for your comment that you had already played Earth. (I not only have my Earth/Rad at 50, I also have two Earth/Storm controllers, on different servers, in the upper 40's).Thanks to everyone for the replies!
We've actually decided to change her Corruptor to a Fire/Dark and I think I'm going to be Earth/Storm
Reasoning as follows:
Drop Quicksand, Immobilize with Stone Cages, drop Tar Patch, Freezing Rain
All mobs now have significant -RES, -DEF, very slow even when if immob misses
Stand in the middle of them with Hurricane running since Stone Cages has -knockback, so now mobs have significant -To Hit, and use Earthquake for more -To Hit and knockdown of mobs that I miss immob on
Run Steamy Mist, Shadow Fall, Maneuvers so we are less likely to be hit Twilight Grasp is a nice heal when we are, very likely to hit
We stack Holds on the hardest enemy and use that as our anchor
Three AoE stuns between us
Knockback using Storm pets can have their full damage done since they won't be knocking enemies away thanks to Stone Cages
She drops Rain of Fire and Fireballs on them which are both quite likely to hit and do significant damage, with single target damage in too of course
It sounds effective and a lot of fun, so I think we're going that way.
But you don't generally want to open with Quicksand, as it will draw aggro. Neither Quicksand nor Tar Patch have -Recharge. Most of the time, whenever it is up, you will want to start with Stalagmites+Stone Cages. Then throw Quicksand underneath and Freezing Rain on top. She can then use Tar Patch if it is up, and her Rain of Fire+Fireball will wipe out groups. If you have a lot of Bosses, you can follow Stalagmites with Stone Cages and Thunderclap -- T-clap will stack its stun with Stalagmites.
When Stalagmites is not up, you have other options. She will have one of the better AoE control powers anywhere, Fearsome Stare -- it is a large cone fear with pretty good -ToHit in it. If she can get in the right position, it will control an entire group easily. Or you can use Earthquake or Volcanic Gasses from range and even from around a corner. Both of those can draw a little aggro until the effects stop foes from attacking you.
You'll want to use the combo of Quicksand+Freezing Rain a lot -- pretty much with every other AoE control. You don't need to slot Freezing Rain for Defense debuff at all.
Stealthiness is very, very helpful for my Earth/Storm. Why? Because the pet, Rocky, is such a good tank. I combine Steamy Mist with Super Speed for full invisibility -- it makes it easy to run into the group of foes to lead Rocky in to draw the aggro. Then I can back out quickly to fire off Earthquake(+Quicksand) or Volcanic Gasses(+Quicksand). I also like Super Speed because it lets me "herdicane" easily, by running around the outside of a group with Hurricane to push them into my AoE controls (and her AoE damage powers).
Personally, I wouldn't bother with Maneuvers. You will already have so much -ToHit and control, you probably won't get hit much. For example, just opening with the combo of Fearsome Stare and Earthquake will be, unslotted, -25% ToHit. If you really want to take Leadership, Assault will do more by adding to your damage. You shouldn't need Tactics with all the -Defense you have.
Don't forget that in low levels, Stone Cages + Darkest Night will almost be an AoE Hold -- The foes can't move and they can't hit you. Very similar to the Stone Cages+Radiation Infection combo I discussed in my Earth/Rad guide. -
Welcome to the Forums!!
A Fire/Rad corrupter does decent damage . . . but a Fire/Dark might have been an even better choice. The combo of Rain of Fire+Tar Patch is pretty awesome, plus the massive control of Fearsome Stare and the ToHit Debuffs make it a really great character for a duo. Still, Fire/Rad is a fun pairing.
As for your character . . . lots of options. Kinetics is very good, but it offers limited defensive abilities. I'm thinking an Illusion/Storm might be a good choice.
Ill/Storm gives you offense and defense, great debuffing and control. Phantom Army can provide the tanks, and don't underestimate the benefits of Deceive to remove a foe who has aggro'ed. Snow Storm will provide some Slow to keep foes in range of your partner's AoE damage. You will really start to shine as early as level 16 with Freezing Rain (with large Defense and Resistance Debuffs), and 18 with Phantom Army. Hurricane will provide defense for those "panic button" moments.
In later levels, you will get additional damage with Phantasm at 32, Tornado at 32 and Lightning Storm at 38. One frequent problem with Ill/Storm is all the knockback, but with a duo, you can minimize the problems. Learn to use the knockback as a form of control, and it becomes a huge help rather than a hinderance.
Another interesting choice might be Illusion/TA. Or Grav/Storm. Or Mind/FF. -
Quote:In one of the early Xanth books by Piers Anthony, he had a Sorceress who made very, very powerful illusions. She protected her private island with illusions of storms and magical creatures. I don't see why that wouldn't work as a concept.Thanks Mental Maden and Local Man (btw your sig is great)
Now to decide if earth/storm/leviathan becomes "Father Nature" or figure a thematic way to do Illusion/Storm/Leviathan for lots of pets (lol). Hmmmm, guess the pa could become the "snow boys"
*humbly bows* -
Quote:Jeeze . . . I don't know about that, but it is a very nice sentiment. I mainly pass on the information that many other people work hard to figure out. I try to be helpful and enjoy sharing my opinions. I also make my share of mistakes . . . and try to admit it when I have made a mistake.Local_Man is second only to Arcana in deific status on these boards. Posting anything that could be percieved as disrespectful to him is asking for a beatdown.
On the Question about Blind's sleep component . . . There are no indications that there have been any changes to the power. If it seems to be happening more, it may be that you are getting foes to bunch up more closely, or maybe you are noticing it more.
I have noticed it happening a few times lately, but I'm not sure it is more frequent. My main Ill/Rad has been my favorite to earn Hero Merits, so I have been running him through a number of Tip missions. -
Quote:That is consistant with the time that I tried it . . . I now remember having that proc on my Ill/Rad and going into a mission with Nemesis. Ugh. I like to confuse tough foes at the beginning of the fight, and with Nemesis, you need two applications of Deceive generally. I would use Deceive, and immediately get aggro -- I died a few times and decided that the proc had to go.Yeah that is true. I think of it as sleeping mobs still have their eyes open in terms of aggro. Confused enemies do not though because they view you as an ally when you run past. Of course I am Mind/Storm so steamy mist's stealth helps a lot with this espionage stuff. ;-)
I've been testing the proc this morning for a bit and came up with some interesting results. Bought it and stuck it into my second build which I mainly use to test things. Basically, as long as the confuse effect is successful, the damage proc will not cause aggro. Which is great. But if the confuse effect is not successful - due to enemies having confuse protection or the need to stack it on a boss, then the proc will cause aggro of the whole spawn. So weighing it up I can't really reccomend it, because anytime you try to confuse something that takes multiple applications, such as bosses then you run the risk of causing aggro. Also sometimes you encounter one enemy which grants protection to everything else in the spawn. Longbow Officers are a prime example of this, and the only way to get Mass Confusion to work is triple or quad stack confuse - this wouldn't be possible with the proc.
So yeah, the proc is not worth the 3% ranged damage the 6 set bonus offers. It causes more problems then it is worth; as even with the proc slotted I'm not going to be confusing enemeis for damage.
As for contagious confusion, it is an awesome proc but I prefer it in Mass Confusion. Why? Because when used on big groups, it turns it into a 100% chance to hit and with a 100% chance to confuse all bosses and also allows it to effectively confuse much more then the standard 16 targets. Plus the epic set offers great accuarcy, recharge and confuse duration which Mass Confuse really benefits from. Honestly the set makes Mass Confuse easily the best AoE control in the game. ST Confuse however has pretty decent stats as base and I don't think it needs such extreme slotting, but this is only my opinion, ymmv of course ;-)
Personally, I like the Contagious Confusion proc on the single target Confuse over Mass Confusion. Why? Mass Confusion has such a long recharge that it can only be used once in a while. Confuse is a fast recharge, and for the endurance cost of a single target confuse, I get a mini-Mass Confusion -- so the proc overall provides more benefit in the single target confuse power.
However, the one place that the proc seemed to make the biggest difference was in Arctic Air. It seemed to me that the Contagious Confusion proc in Arctic Air doubled (or more) the effectiveness of the power. -
Contagious Confusion does not add any additional aggro. If the power already generates aggro (like Seeds of Confusion or Arctic Air), then they will still aggro.
But to answer the OP's question, yeah, the damage procs can generate aggro if the confuse power misses. I tried the Malaise proc in Deceive once, and learned the hard way. But the Contagious Confusion proc works wonderfully in Deceive. -
You forgot that Phanty spawns his own decoy. That makes ten pets.
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On test, I was really unimpressed with Jolting Chain. Now I see it as a short-term AoE control -- nice to use when a teammate has used an AoE damage attack on Static Field -- just long enough to keep the foes distracted until the next sleep pulse can hit them. Nice to use as the standard attack of Static Field, Jolting Chain, Chain Fences. The knockdown prevents attacks while you apply the AoE Immob on top of Static Field. It works sometimes when your other controls don't.
It is not a key power in the set . . . more an extra, fast recharging tool that is handy to have. Especially once I get Choking Cloud, I think it will be nice to have. Choking Cloud takes a few seconds to work . . . Jolting Chain will give a few seconds of AoE control with its knockdown.
I haven't seen whether procs in the power will only hit the first foe hit, or if the proc will spread to others (I suspect the first). I'm sure some folks with more time than I have will have already tested this. -
I finally got my Elec/Rad up past SO levels, and played him on a small team and a large team.
On the small team, Static Field was great. Especially since the new Kinetic Melee is very single-target focused, Static was able to control groups while the melee guys took individuals down.
On the large team, Static Field (as a control) was far less effective since (a) we were pretty much an undisciplined hoard just plowing ahead, and (b) the Fire Blaster liked to pick that group that I had just slept with Static Field to use Rain of Fire on. Fortunately, Static Field recharges much faster than Rain of Ire, er, Fire. Still, Static was great for heading off ambushes and as a nice team Endurance Recovery tool. I was still throwing it around as much as I could. -
Some of us don't bother with the expensive purple sets. I had a Ragnarok triple drop, so I crafted it and sold it for 275 mil. That character went from 20 mil to 270 mil. and can now afford many of the IOs he needs for his moderately priced build.
However, I like to pick up some of those "obscure" purple sets, Confuse, Immob, Stun and Hold, for my controllers. I suspect that the Sleep purple set will become more popular with the Electric Control powers. -
Quote:The positive about Ill/Kin? With Siphon Speed you CAN stack buffs up to three times, giving you 60% Recharge . . . but it isn't all that easy to do it and you need foes handy to siphon off of, and you have to hit.I made this figuring siphon speed would help me keep Phantom Army up more often, but I'm very curious has anyone ever had Perma-Phantom Army??
The negative? None of your awesome Kinetics buffs will buff Phantom Army. To improve the Army, you need Resistance and Defense Debuffs on the foes since PA cannot be buffed other than what is slotted in the power. One of the main reasons Illusion/Radiation is so popular is that Rad is the only secondary that provides BOTH a recharge buff and debuffs for Resistance and Defense. Several other sets provide very good debuffs but no Recharge buff. Kinetics provides the Recharge buff, but no debuffs. The buff from Siphon Speed, however, can be more than the Recharge buff from AM if you stack it. -
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Quote:Just be aware that a Fire/Kin takes a LONG time to mature. It does not become as good at dealing damage as everyone says until the 40's, and then it is very vulnerable to damage -- Kinetics has almost no defensive powers, all offense. That's why folks talk about "softcapping" using IO sets. Once you spend enough to get your defenses up high, then you can do a lot of continual damage without too much worry about taking damage.Hmmm...
Now I'm intrigued. I do enjoy mashing things in the face. AoE is a definite must for me - I just can't get into the ST toons... yet.
I have a fire/kin corr that I mess around with in the low 30's. He's a blast in a team - Buffing everyone, RoF, Fireballs... its a great looking set. Still fun solo, but he's missing some key solo powers in favor of buffs at this point. Probably time for a respec trial...
Being relatively new to the game, I am very much used to a set having 2 or 3 powers that are the majority of the oomf behind it. A fire/kin troller looks to me (from what I'm reading here) that almost every primary power you take contributes (nearly) equally to the damage you deal. This would be a new play style for me. Perhaps I'll give it a shot.
Thanks again!
War_Admiral was right, I missed Fissure as part of the equation.
And Panzer is right, too . . . I actually like my Fire/Rad better. He is more flexible, even though he does not kill as fast. -
Actually, Containment + Hot Feet + Fulcrum Shift is a huge part of the damage. It is AoE damage, so the foes are all taking damage together.
Once you get Containment with Fire Cages and/or Flashfire, you get double damage 75% of the time . . . fulcrum shifted, that adds up.
