As far as I know, yes.
Damage procs on smoke will case aggro, probably the same with confuse.
Quote:
In the confuse it's not so bad. If it hits, they aere still confused so they attack each other. But yes, they do cause aggro. The whole concept on the powers chosen as no-aggro is that the enemies aren't getting hurt, so they don't realize what's going on. Some of it doesn't make any sense what-so-ever, but that's the reason. Like, the smoke example. If you smoked me and my buddies and we were "taking over a warehouse", I would at least TRY to look for you. I may not ever find you due to the -perception, but I would at least move somewhere.
|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Hey, anyone have any experience with no-aggro powers and procs. Does it make them cause aggro when they fire? I'm thinking specifically of Malaise's Illusion chance of psionic damage and Mind Control's Confuse. If it does I'm going to have to drop it, because I like my subtlety!
Any insight would be great, otherwise I'll test it and report back ;-) |
Quote:
If it misses, they attack you though.|
Originally Posted by Live_Wyre
In the confuse it's not so bad. If it hits, they aere still confused so they attack each other. But yes, they do cause aggro.
|
The only procs that won't cause aggro I think are the Contagious Confusion and Mass Hypnosis one, because Confuse and Placate are effects that don't "normally" aggro.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
Well, yeah then, that sucks. The whole point is so they don't attack you first. If there's a boss, he's gonna light your world up while the other guys beat up on each other.
|
Originally Posted by Gilia
If it misses, they attack you though.
The only procs that won't cause aggro I think are the Contagious Confusion and Mass Hypnosis one, because Confuse and Placate are effects that don't "normally" aggro. |
Quote:
You mean if confuse hits but the proc misses? Can procs miss, can procs fire if the confuse misses? I need to pay more attention to my procs I think.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
If it misses, they attack you though.
The only procs that won't cause aggro I think are the Contagious Confusion and Mass Hypnosis one, because Confuse and Placate are effects that don't "normally" aggro. |
I was rather hoping it would work like Dominate and Mesmerize. If you confuse an enemy, you can nuke them down with those 2 powers without aggroing the whole spawn until the killing blow is dealt. This is because of the way the ally/enemy targetings gets changed, guess it counts that an ally is attacking them until the confuse wears off and targeting is reversed to default. I've seen it in pseubo pets, like Longbow Nullifiers sonic disruption fields. If you kill a confused nullifer, their sonic field reverts to considering you an enemy.
Quote:
I'm with you on this by the way, there are a few powers that have questionable reasoning for their no-aggro status ;-)
|
Originally Posted by Live_Wyre
In the confuse it's not so bad. If it hits, they aere still confused so they attack each other. But yes, they do cause aggro. The whole concept on the powers chosen as no-aggro is that the enemies aren't getting hurt, so they don't realize what's going on. Some of it doesn't make any sense what-so-ever, but that's the reason. Like, the smoke example. If you smoked me and my buddies and we were "taking over a warehouse", I would at least TRY to look for you. I may not ever find you due to the -perception, but I would at least move somewhere.
|
Quote:
From my personal testing the answer is yes, even if it's not a damage proc.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
You mean if confuse hits but the proc misses? Can procs miss, can procs fire if the confuse misses? I need to pay more attention to my procs I think.
I was rather hoping it would work like Dominate and Mesmerize. If you confuse an enemy, you can nuke them down with those 2 powers without aggroing the whole spawn until the killing blow is dealt. This is because of the way the ally/enemy targetings gets changed, guess it counts that an ally is attacking them until the confuse wears off and targeting is reversed to default. I've seen it in pseubo pets, like Longbow Nullifiers sonic disruption fields. If you kill a confused nullifer, their sonic field reverts to considering you an enemy. |
I slotted Flash Arrow with Dark Watcher's chance for -rech. The entire spawn aggro'd each and every time even if the proc didn't fire on any of them.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
That's not always the case as Seeds of Confusion does cause aggro. If you are too close to them when you cast it you'll still eat the alpha.
|
Originally Posted by Gilia
If it misses, they attack you though.
The only procs that won't cause aggro I think are the Contagious Confusion and Mass Hypnosis one, because Confuse and Placate are effects that don't "normally" aggro. |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Contagious Confusion does not add any additional aggro. If the power already generates aggro (like Seeds of Confusion or Arctic Air), then they will still aggro.
But to answer the OP's question, yeah, the damage procs can generate aggro if the confuse power misses. I tried the Malaise proc in Deceive once, and learned the hard way. But the Contagious Confusion proc works wonderfully in Deceive.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
That is a shame, because the 6 set bonus for Malaise would otherwise have been pretty nice. Thanks for the responses guys, i'll have to rethink my plans. If the proc is cheap I might craft it anyway just to get some first hand experience, as confuse/no-aggro mechanics intrigue me.
Quote:
If it helps any, for Mind Control, I slot the purple set in Confusion and the Malaise set in Mass Confusion + 1 Recharge IO. That's on a super-high recharge build though.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
That is a shame, because the 6 set bonus for Malaise would otherwise have been pretty nice. Thanks for the responses guys, i'll have to rethink my plans. If the proc is cheap I might craft it anyway just to get some first hand experience, as confuse/no-aggro mechanics intrigue me.
|
The Malaise proc definitely does cause aggro by the way, and Contagious Confusion definitely does not, nor does the Placate one. What's tricky about Sleep that will get you though (and note I haven't actually tested this to be 100% sure it's true) is that unlike confusion if you sleep something and run past it unhidden, it still sees you, where a confused enemy does not. Again I'm not 100% sure of that but it's what I've heard.
Yeah that is true. I think of it as sleeping mobs still have their eyes open in terms of aggro. Confused enemies do not though because they view you as an ally when you run past. Of course I am Mind/Storm so steamy mist's stealth helps a lot with this espionage stuff. ;-)
I've been testing the proc this morning for a bit and came up with some interesting results. Bought it and stuck it into my second build which I mainly use to test things. Basically, as long as the confuse effect is successful, the damage proc will not cause aggro. Which is great. But if the confuse effect is not successful - due to enemies having confuse protection or the need to stack it on a boss, then the proc will cause aggro of the whole spawn. So weighing it up I can't really reccomend it, because anytime you try to confuse something that takes multiple applications, such as bosses then you run the risk of causing aggro. Also sometimes you encounter one enemy which grants protection to everything else in the spawn. Longbow Officers are a prime example of this, and the only way to get Mass Confusion to work is triple or quad stack confuse - this wouldn't be possible with the proc.
So yeah, the proc is not worth the 3% ranged damage the 6 set bonus offers. It causes more problems then it is worth; as even with the proc slotted I'm not going to be confusing enemeis for damage.
As for contagious confusion, it is an awesome proc but I prefer it in Mass Confusion. Why? Because when used on big groups, it turns it into a 100% chance to hit and with a 100% chance to confuse all bosses and also allows it to effectively confuse much more then the standard 16 targets. Plus the epic set offers great accuarcy, recharge and confuse duration which Mass Confuse really benefits from. Honestly the set makes Mass Confuse easily the best AoE control in the game. ST Confuse however has pretty decent stats as base and I don't think it needs such extreme slotting, but this is only my opinion, ymmv of course ;-)
Quote:
Na, that would be Seeds of Confusion. Comes in at lvl 8 instead of 32 and a 60 sec CD instead of 240, but can do everything Mass Confuse can do.
|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
As for contagious confusion, it is an awesome proc but I prefer it in Mass Confusion. Why? Because when used on big groups, it turns it into a 100% chance to hit and with a 100% chance to confuse all bosses and also allows it to effectively confuse much more then the standard 16 targets. Plus the epic set offers great accuarcy, recharge and confuse duration which Mass Confuse really benefits from. Honestly the set makes Mass Confuse easily the best AoE control in the game. ST Confuse however has pretty decent stats as base and I don't think it needs such extreme slotting, but this is only my opinion, ymmv of course ;-) |
Quote:
That is consistant with the time that I tried it . . . I now remember having that proc on my Ill/Rad and going into a mission with Nemesis. Ugh. I like to confuse tough foes at the beginning of the fight, and with Nemesis, you need two applications of Deceive generally. I would use Deceive, and immediately get aggro -- I died a few times and decided that the proc had to go.|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Yeah that is true. I think of it as sleeping mobs still have their eyes open in terms of aggro. Confused enemies do not though because they view you as an ally when you run past. Of course I am Mind/Storm so steamy mist's stealth helps a lot with this espionage stuff. ;-)
I've been testing the proc this morning for a bit and came up with some interesting results. Bought it and stuck it into my second build which I mainly use to test things. Basically, as long as the confuse effect is successful, the damage proc will not cause aggro. Which is great. But if the confuse effect is not successful - due to enemies having confuse protection or the need to stack it on a boss, then the proc will cause aggro of the whole spawn. So weighing it up I can't really reccomend it, because anytime you try to confuse something that takes multiple applications, such as bosses then you run the risk of causing aggro. Also sometimes you encounter one enemy which grants protection to everything else in the spawn. Longbow Officers are a prime example of this, and the only way to get Mass Confusion to work is triple or quad stack confuse - this wouldn't be possible with the proc. So yeah, the proc is not worth the 3% ranged damage the 6 set bonus offers. It causes more problems then it is worth; as even with the proc slotted I'm not going to be confusing enemeis for damage. As for contagious confusion, it is an awesome proc but I prefer it in Mass Confusion. Why? Because when used on big groups, it turns it into a 100% chance to hit and with a 100% chance to confuse all bosses and also allows it to effectively confuse much more then the standard 16 targets. Plus the epic set offers great accuarcy, recharge and confuse duration which Mass Confuse really benefits from. Honestly the set makes Mass Confuse easily the best AoE control in the game. ST Confuse however has pretty decent stats as base and I don't think it needs such extreme slotting, but this is only my opinion, ymmv of course ;-) |
Personally, I like the Contagious Confusion proc on the single target Confuse over Mass Confusion. Why? Mass Confusion has such a long recharge that it can only be used once in a while. Confuse is a fast recharge, and for the endurance cost of a single target confuse, I get a mini-Mass Confusion -- so the proc overall provides more benefit in the single target confuse power.
However, the one place that the proc seemed to make the biggest difference was in Arctic Air. It seemed to me that the Contagious Confusion proc in Arctic Air doubled (or more) the effectiveness of the power.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Can't mention Mass Confusion without someone mentioning those Seed's |
Originally Posted by Max_zero
Na, that would be Seeds of Confusion. Comes in at lvl 8 instead of 32 and a 60 sec CD instead of 240, but can do everything Mass Confuse can do.
|
Don't really want to turn this thread into an argument about it since its been done many times before. All I will say is I have tried both powers and I prefer the way Mass Confusion works. It is an 80ft range, No aggro AoE, compared to a 50ft range cone that does cause aggro. So just by definition, Seeds can't do everything that Mass Confusion can do, but it does do a good job in trying. Honestly, my theory is back when the set was being created some dev copy & pasted the default confuse duration, which is 37.3s, into the power without any thought into the fact its a cone with a 60s recharge. "Just use the numbers that were used before." This is even more amusing if you recall all AoE holds had their durations halved back at the beginning, but Mass Confuse escaped that fate which set the bar even higher. Anyway both sets play completely differently and with different mindsets. Mind Control is much more subtle and methodical in its playstyle and with great depth for a skilled player to really explore its intricacies; plant control in comparison is very bland I found and something I quickly got bored of.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
That is consistant with the time that I tried it . . . I now remember having that proc on my Ill/Rad and going into a mission with Nemesis. Ugh. I like to confuse tough foes at the beginning of the fight, and with Nemesis, you need two applications of Deceive generally. I would use Deceive, and immediately get aggro -- I died a few times and decided that the proc had to go.
Personally, I like the Contagious Confusion proc on the single target Confuse over Mass Confusion. Why? Mass Confusion has such a long recharge that it can only be used once in a while. Confuse is a fast recharge, and for the endurance cost of a single target confuse, I get a mini-Mass Confusion -- so the proc overall provides more benefit in the single target confuse power. However, the one place that the proc seemed to make the biggest difference was in Arctic Air. It seemed to me that the Contagious Confusion proc in Arctic Air doubled (or more) the effectiveness of the power. |
Can imagine it working very well in Arctic Air, I really need to play Ice/ some time, looks like a fun set and with a lot of options.
Quote:
No accounting for taste I guess. Suffice to say I pretty much disagree with the entire paragraph and I'll leave it there.
|
Originally Posted by Peacemoon
Can't mention Mass Confusion without someone mentioning those Seed's
Don't really want to turn this thread into an argument about it since its been done many times before. All I will say is I have tried both powers and I prefer the way Mass Confusion works. It is an 80ft range, No aggro AoE, compared to a 50ft range cone that does cause aggro. So just by definition, Seeds can't do everything that Mass Confusion can do, but it does do a good job in trying. Honestly, my theory is back when the set was being created some dev copy & pasted the default confuse duration, which is 37.3s, into the power without any thought into the fact its a cone with a 60s recharge. "Just use the numbers that were used before." This is even more amusing if you recall all AoE holds had their durations halved back at the beginning, but Mass Confuse escaped that fate which set the bar even higher. Anyway both sets play completely differently and with different mindsets. Mind Control is much more subtle and methodical in its playstyle and with great depth for a skilled player to really explore its intricacies; plant control in comparison is very bland I found and something I quickly got bored of. |
Quote:
There is A LOT in this game that should draw aggro. When a Hellion runs off, and through a mob of his buddies, you'd think he'd mention to them about the doodz in their base. My favorite is when you punt some minion down the hallway and his limp corpse tumbles among the ankles of his coworkers, not even raising an eyebrow. |
Originally Posted by Live_Wyre
In the confuse it's not so bad. If it hits, they aere still confused so they attack each other. But yes, they do cause aggro. The whole concept on the powers chosen as no-aggro is that the enemies aren't getting hurt, so they don't realize what's going on. Some of it doesn't make any sense what-so-ever, but that's the reason. Like, the smoke example. If you smoked me and my buddies and we were "taking over a warehouse", I would at least TRY to look for you. I may not ever find you due to the -perception, but I would at least move somewhere.
|
That Karl, always hurtling his lifeless body hundreds of feet through the air, riddled with bullets, bruises and gashes. And on fire. What a clown.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
You guys are forgetting the new Synaptic Overload, slot that with the Contagious Confuse proc and laugh. 15 x 33% Chance for AoE Confuse, ontop of its base magnitude, and relativly short cast time, that doesn't cause aggro. No contest.
Quote:
That is *exactly* what I meant when I said confuse doesn't "normally" aggro. I meant normal as in most cases. I don't really know what else normal could have meant, but thanks for the clarification anyhow.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
That's not always the case as Seeds of Confusion does cause aggro. If you are too close to them when you cast it you'll still eat the alpha.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Max_zero
Na, that would be Seeds of Confusion. Comes in at lvl 8 instead of 32 and a 60 sec CD instead of 240, but can do everything Mass Confuse can do.
|
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Quote:
Has anyone actually used this in the field, or are we just talking on paper?|
Originally Posted by Chaos_Reaver
You guys are forgetting the new Synaptic Overload, slot that with the Contagious Confuse proc and laugh. 15 x 33% Chance for AoE Confuse, ontop of its base magnitude, and relativly short cast time, that doesn't cause aggro. No contest.
|
My mids build has the purple set with the proc on synaptic overload. It seems like it would be a perfect combination, but I'm worried that it may not work as well as one expects.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Max_zero
Na, that would be Seeds of Confusion. Comes in at lvl 8 instead of 32 and a 60 sec CD instead of 240, but can do everything Mass Confuse can do.
|
Seeds of Confusion is a great (read: overpowered to the point of deserving a nerf) power. However it really doesn't compare to Mass Confusion. It's more comparable to powers like Stalagmites and Flashfire than anything in Mind Control.
Quote:
Now... I LOVE Elec control to death with huggles and snuggles...|
Originally Posted by Chaos_Reaver
You guys are forgetting the new Synaptic Overload, slot that with the Contagious Confuse proc and laugh. 15 x 33% Chance for AoE Confuse, ontop of its base magnitude, and relativly short cast time, that doesn't cause aggro. No contest.
|
But there is one little pin popping your bubble...
5%
You will miss 5% of the time, and get NOTHING from SynOver. Quick casting time for the win, but it still a face-to-desk moment when it does happen.
Quote:
Don't touch my seeds.
|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Seeds of Confusion is a great (read: overpowered to the point of deserving a nerf) power. However it really doesn't compare to Mass Confusion. It's more comparable to powers like Stalagmites and Flashfire than anything in Mind Control.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Max_zero
Don't touch my seeds.
|
It's not me you have to worry about.
Hey, anyone have any experience with no-aggro powers and procs. Does it make them cause aggro when they fire? I'm thinking specifically of Malaise's Illusion chance of psionic damage and Mind Control's Confuse. If it does I'm going to have to drop it, because I like my subtlety!
Any insight would be great, otherwise I'll test it and report back ;-)