short answer: yes it is the imps
Awesome! Thanks! 
Don't know if I can live with that. I guess if I want pets I'll stick with my MM 
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Actually, Containment + Hot Feet + Fulcrum Shift is a huge part of the damage. It is AoE damage, so the foes are all taking damage together.|
Originally Posted by Hott_Head
short answer: yes it is the imps
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Once you get Containment with Fire Cages and/or Flashfire, you get double damage 75% of the time . . . fulcrum shifted, that adds up.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Fix'd :P
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Containment + Hot Feet + Fulcrum Shift + Firecages + Fissure
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Part of understanding where the damage comes from comes from understanding the damage cap. For controller's the cap is 400%. Without enhancements or buffs a power will deliver it 100% of its damage. That leaves 300% to achieve with enhancements and buffs. You can, for example, reach the cap with 95% enhancement and 205% damage buff or with 66% enhancement and 234% damage buff. For kinetics, its easy to eschew the enhancement and rely on Fulcrum Shift to get to the cap.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
So...
I see lots and lots of fire/kin farming machine threads. I also see "fire/kin r teh best farmerz evah" comments in various places - and out of curiosity, I looked into building one. I generally do multiple builds in Mid's before I ever make a toon. I figure an hour spent in Mid's saves me days of playing something I might just hate. Anyways... on to the question: I'm not seeing the damage. Where is it? I did a build where I cranked up FS and slotted everything for damage (think of it as a "max possible bursty") build because I just wasn't seeing it. Then I came to the forums and looked at about 2 bazillion builds for fire/kins. I read strategies and all that, and yet, I cannot seem to wrap my brain around where the damage comes from in this set. Is it 99% imps? Is it all procs? Is there a hidden "i win" button that pop up when you hit 50 that can't be duplicated in Mid's? I surrender in my search and ask you, the all-knowing forum folks, where the heck does the damage to melt +4/x8 come from in a fire/kin? (And please don't say FS. I know FS increases damage dramatically, but 4 times crap is still pretty much crap). Hopefully someone can enlighten this confuzzled old brain of mine. Thanks! |
Then it's time to go beyond the cap. There are two ways this happens. The first is containment. If an enemy is stunned, held, slept, or immobilized most of your powers will deal double damage. That's an extra tick of damage and not a buff so it falls outside of the damage cap. The second means of reaching beyond the cap is using damage procs. Again, these are additional ticks of damage and fall outside of the damage cap.
Let's look at how it adds up. Hot Feet does 7.65 points of damage every 2 seconds. With 300% damage from buffs and enhancements you reach 30.6 points of damage. If the enemies are contained, that's 61.2 points of damage every 2 seconds. That's not far from the base damage of a controller's Fireball and it's happening every two seconds.
Basically, it adds up to small number made into medium numbers and happening very frequently. Also bear in mind that while the Imps add some nice damage, they're limited to a single target attack. The AoE damage is coming from Hot Feet and Fire Cages.
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Shorter (and more correct) answer: No, it's not.|
Originally Posted by Hott_Head
short answer: yes it is the imps
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Actually, Containment + Hot Feet + Fulcrum Shift is a huge part of the damage. It is AoE damage, so the foes are all taking damage together.
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I still prefer my Fire/Rad though. Fire/Kin is too squishy (and way too clicky) for my tastes. Fire/Rad is pretty much farming on cruise control, it's so easy.
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Its gonna be WAY more end heavy, so it better be on cruise control. Especially if you're running choking cloud and hotfeet with all the res/def toggles. |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Fire/Rad is pretty much farming on cruise control, it's so easy. |
Soft-capped Fire/Kins arnt squishy. If you see them dying, they're being played by bad players.
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I'll give you that. It takes a much more expensive build for sure to keep the end burn under control. |
Originally Posted by War_Admiral
Its gonna be WAY more end heavy, so it better be on cruise control. Especially if you're running choking cloud and hotfeet with all the res/def toggles.
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| Soft-capped Fire/Kins arnt squishy. If you see them dying, they're being played by bad players. |
You should be able to farm entire +8 mobs of 50 bosses if he's soft capped. Its a matter of keeping them stunned/held till they die. Which is why fissure is so epic.
Put the +rech and Chance for ToHit debuff procs in there and stomp away.
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Must be a playstyle thing then. Or maybe I really AM a bad fire/kin player... |
Originally Posted by War_Admiral
You should be able to farm entire +8 mobs of 50 bosses if he's soft capped. Its a matter of keeping them stunned/held till they die. Which is why fissure is so epic.
Put the +rech and Chance for ToHit debuff procs in there and stomp away. |
Could be what you're farming too...
*shrugs*
If you're having trouble with just 1-2 bosses in a mob, then you're prolly not using char enough. :P
Hmmm...
Now I'm intrigued. I do enjoy mashing things in the face. AoE is a definite must for me - I just can't get into the ST toons... yet.
I have a fire/kin corr that I mess around with in the low 30's. He's a blast in a team - Buffing everyone, RoF, Fireballs... its a great looking set. Still fun solo, but he's missing some key solo powers in favor of buffs at this point. Probably time for a respec trial...
Being relatively new to the game, I am very much used to a set having 2 or 3 powers that are the majority of the oomf behind it. A fire/kin troller looks to me (from what I'm reading here) that almost every primary power you take contributes (nearly) equally to the damage you deal. This would be a new play style for me. Perhaps I'll give it a shot.
Thanks again!
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I won't say I have trouble, just that I'll occasionally faceplant due to a couple lucky hits in a row getting by the softcap. It's rare, but it happens. Usually when there are 3-4 bosses agro'd at once. Whereas with my Fire/Rad, those bosses just sit there sucking on Choking Cloud while I pound them into the ground with Seismic Smash. |
Originally Posted by War_Admiral
Could be what you're farming too...
*shrugs* If you're having trouble with just 1-2 bosses in a mob, then you're prolly not using char enough. :P |
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Just be aware that a Fire/Kin takes a LONG time to mature. It does not become as good at dealing damage as everyone says until the 40's, and then it is very vulnerable to damage -- Kinetics has almost no defensive powers, all offense. That's why folks talk about "softcapping" using IO sets. Once you spend enough to get your defenses up high, then you can do a lot of continual damage without too much worry about taking damage.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
Hmmm...
Now I'm intrigued. I do enjoy mashing things in the face. AoE is a definite must for me - I just can't get into the ST toons... yet. I have a fire/kin corr that I mess around with in the low 30's. He's a blast in a team - Buffing everyone, RoF, Fireballs... its a great looking set. Still fun solo, but he's missing some key solo powers in favor of buffs at this point. Probably time for a respec trial... Being relatively new to the game, I am very much used to a set having 2 or 3 powers that are the majority of the oomf behind it. A fire/kin troller looks to me (from what I'm reading here) that almost every primary power you take contributes (nearly) equally to the damage you deal. This would be a new play style for me. Perhaps I'll give it a shot. Thanks again! |
War_Admiral was right, I missed Fissure as part of the equation.
And Panzer is right, too . . . I actually like my Fire/Rad better. He is more flexible, even though he does not kill as fast.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Thanks for the lesson guys. i will admit it has been over a year since i hit 50 with mine and at that time the imps were the key that might explain why i had so much trouble in missions with him as of late if anyone is interested i would love to get a refresher lesson on the new fire/kin tactics if anyone plays on liberty my global is @DevinB
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I prefer farming with my Frad; the AE farm map I use has several stacked ambushes on a front loaded map, so at one point there are 50+ mobs in the room so you cinder here, jump there em pulse, fire cage over yander, and then start melting stuff. some times I face plant most times I do ok. real world farm maps seem so slow with all the running around |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
I won't say I have trouble, just that I'll occasionally faceplant due to a couple lucky hits in a row getting by the softcap. It's rare, but it happens. Usually when there are 3-4 bosses agro'd at once. Whereas with my Fire/Rad, those bosses just sit there sucking on Choking Cloud while I pound them into the ground with Seismic Smash.
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Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
agreed, i love my fire/rad more. I have HO's in the toggle, I have 4 procs in choking cloud and sometimes i am running 8 toggles all the while killing stuff. Whats great is that AM and debuffs stack, multiple fulcrums do not.
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Umm....FS stacks until you reach the damage cap.
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Originally Posted by Medic_brietz
Whats great is that AM and debuffs stack, multiple fulcrums do not.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I've been looking into another god for farming, I'll post a movie when I get there.
I love my fire/kin......no denying. But I really love my fire/storm/earth. Herdicane several spawns...find corner....toggle off cane ....FF+cage+FR+jump+lightning storm+fissure+thunderclap (if needed for bosses)+fissure til clean.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Personally +4x8 is a waist of time if you are farming for purples and inf/hr. Fire imps add to your damage, but no they are not the greatest part of it as others have mentioned. Aside from soft capping your s/l defense you will find many of the threads also stress recharge, recharge, recharge. Also fire is one of the least resisted damage types in the game so fire cages and containment, FS (easily hit damage cap), hot feet, and fizzure you will find nothing survives long. Imps are just icing on the cake. For bosses I generally use Seismic Smash which might take one to two hits. Keep in mind this is not the only AT combo that is good at farming nor is it the fastest IMO. It is however one of the easier and cheaper to farm with, which makes it a lot more popular. Like all controllers you will find that leveling is somewhat slow, but well worth the effort.
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
So...
I see lots and lots of fire/kin farming machine threads. I also see "fire/kin r teh best farmerz evah" comments in various places - and out of curiosity, I looked into building one. I generally do multiple builds in Mid's before I ever make a toon. I figure an hour spent in Mid's saves me days of playing something I might just hate. Anyways... on to the question: I'm not seeing the damage. Where is it? I did a build where I cranked up FS and slotted everything for damage (think of it as a "max possible bursty") build because I just wasn't seeing it. Then I came to the forums and looked at about 2 bazillion builds for fire/kins. I read strategies and all that, and yet, I cannot seem to wrap my brain around where the damage comes from in this set. Is it 99% imps? Is it all procs? Is there a hidden "i win" button that pop up when you hit 50 that can't be duplicated in Mid's? I surrender in my search and ask you, the all-knowing forum folks, where the heck does the damage to melt +4/x8 come from in a fire/kin? (And please don't say FS. I know FS increases damage dramatically, but 4 times crap is still pretty much crap). Hopefully someone can enlighten this confuzzled old brain of mine. Thanks! |
So...
I see lots and lots of fire/kin farming machine threads. I also see "fire/kin r teh best farmerz evah" comments in various places - and out of curiosity, I looked into building one. I generally do multiple builds in Mid's before I ever make a toon. I figure an hour spent in Mid's saves me days of playing something I might just hate.
Anyways... on to the question:
I'm not seeing the damage. Where is it? I did a build where I cranked up FS and slotted everything for damage (think of it as a "max possible bursty") build because I just wasn't seeing it. Then I came to the forums and looked at about 2 bazillion builds for fire/kins. I read strategies and all that, and yet, I cannot seem to wrap my brain around where the damage comes from in this set. Is it 99% imps? Is it all procs? Is there a hidden "i win" button that pop up when you hit 50 that can't be duplicated in Mid's?
I surrender in my search and ask you, the all-knowing forum folks, where the heck does the damage to melt +4/x8 come from in a fire/kin?
(And please don't say FS. I know FS increases damage dramatically, but 4 times crap is still pretty much crap).
Hopefully someone can enlighten this confuzzled old brain of mine.
Thanks!