Linea_Alba
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Posts
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I used mids for the numbers, correcting the one by hand that I know was wrong. The bottom of the sheet is where I do it by hand, when I do it that way. I didn't since there was a mids build and that saves a ton of time.
Brute Raw 189.2 vs 188.3, I'd call that agreement.
Quote:I asked Posi this question, and never got an accurate answer, so until now have stuck to observed data post nerf. The observed data of 30 to 40dps, is apparently overestimated. But I knew this number was likely off, but I though it was close. Now I know.Then the DoT. Since the Dot can only stack up to two times and Reactive Radial has a 75% chance of procing the Dot, I just assumed it was always stacked twice, which is a pretty reasonable assumption. That's five ticks of 13.39 damage, or 66.95 damage over ten seconds, or 6.695 dps per, or 13.39 dps for two DoTs simultaneously.
If the most you can get out of The Dot is 2 stacks and 14 dps, there may be a stronger arguement for taking the core version ?
If 2 stacks is max, at what raw dps number does the Core version make more sense ?
I estimated the resistance debuffs as 1.1, but that's close enough to agreement as well.
I estimated the criticals as 1.1, but averaged the final answer so 1.05.
I estimated based on observed data, when I applied that to both I got dead even numbers brute vs scrapper. I'll take your version here over mine.Quote:Now, the build has to use Practiced Brawler and Hasten, and they have cast times. So we can calculate the arcanatime delay involved in using both powers: its 1.716 for PB and 0.924 for Hasten. That means, on average, you're losing 1.716/120 = 0.0143 = 1.43% of your time casting PB and 0.924/120 = 0.0077 = 0.77% of your time casting Hasten, if you do this more or less optimally. So in actuality, your net damage has to drop by about those percentage levels. So its actually closers to 241.2 * (1 - 0.022) = 235.9 dps.
If you didn't use the different scrapper follow up, that change would probably put them dead even.
I knew my estimates for Reactive and Clickies weren't entirely accurate having been based on less than accurate in-game observations. I might look at it again tommorow, with this additional information. I already copied and saved the new info for future reference and calculations.
Ok, Adjusting for Arcana's Reactive, and Arcana's Clickies, I get 247 gapless, and 230 with the small gap, for the Brute at 75 Fury. The scrapper is still coming out even to slightly higher, I'll have to double check all the numbers later using CoD by hand. -
Lower recharge build with strike is equally close (updated the spreadsheet above), had to sacrifice eviscerate for slots for the extra attack. Hardly a big loss imo.
As I recall Granite said he had around 75 Fury. I updated the sheet to reflect that. That's the major sticking point with brutes, what fury number, and how do other in-game things effect a build. 67% resulted in the answer that was closest to his in-game results. Does that mean that was closer to his average, or does that mean the clickies, lag, and other delays effected things more than anticipated ? -
Haven't used a travel power since i9.
The build as-is is capable of the top damage ST chain. For AoE you'll want to add in FS.
For damage, swap tactics for Flashing Steel. You lose to-hit, a tad in defense, perception and confusion protection, but gain more AoE. Add a PvP IO and you can re-cap defenses. Add a couple of purple sets to fix accuracy back up, and get the AoEs up more often.
If you really want more Offense, I'd say go with Sword/FA, Sword/Sheild, -> War Mace/Sheild <-, War Mace/FA, SS/FA. -
Quote:I calculated his build as 247, but both reactive and lag are subjective, hard to calcuate, and relevant. By the same method and same build, converted to scrapper, the scrapper would be ... 282 with a 10% crit, or 262 without crits, split the difference if you like.Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Granite Agent put up 244 DPS from a Claws/SR Brute with T4 Reactive running FU-Focus-Slash.
He's also posted his build IIRC, I'd love to know what a similarly built (Claws/SR, T4 Reactive) scrapper would be capable of.
Higher fury should make better performance possible, and he should have had higher fury, so it could be clickies slowing things down, if so, the scrapper would be slowed down too, bringing the two more or less even. In fact, in practice, by the time I average the criticals and adjust for clickiness, I'd call them perfectly even. But all that is pretty much impossible to account for on paper, it's as much subjective feel and guess as anything. Nothing beats building them and trying them.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15076020/Cha...ent%205%29.xls -
You can use the craftable temp res, and save a power, or 3. I craft the res, healing, recovery serum, backup radio, and power analyzer temps on every character since they came out.
At level 47, you should be in range of incarnate powers (45-50), I'd rather have rebirth than aid-self, considerably more mileage for the investment.
Here's a BS conversion of the (Kat) build I use. It's easier to give you this, than to give the 20+ ways and reasons I'd change your build. It boils down to Softcap ML/FCEN, Tactics is cheaper than FA, and Leaderships helps yourself while you help others.
You can cut the Hamis from DA and IW. But you need the Enzymes in the Maneuvers, Weave, and Heightened Senses in order to maintain soft-cap to FCEN. Softcap to ML/FCEN with 2 DA/Perry.
Add a PvP, and swap a couple of sets and the same basic build will softcap to ML/FCEN with 1 DA/Perry. I decided I'd live with the small loss of offense, use 2 DA/Perry, and save the 3 billion that last IO would cost.
I have a shadow meld version for soloing, but I've come to prefer the vengeance variant for teaming, which I do more of than soloing. My original build was the solo version, I had not expected to like the vengeance version so much. Just another pleasant surprise to playing sword/willpower. Regen is still my first love, but I'm really enjoying WP.
I use Spiritual Alpha T3/T4, Rebirth T3/T4, Reactive Radial Fire Dot T3/T4, Void Radial -damage T3/T4, Warworks Core T3/T4.
Clockwork are also a good choice for Lore, as are Cimerorans, and several others: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...7&postcount=26
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1546;737;1474;HEX;| |78DA6594DD4E135110C7CF6E176B0B8596B650BEA4948F4291D25A126F8C26881A1| |512B0087ED7A53DB4AB9BED665B45BCE315BCF156889F37BE83EFA04FA1A82F60EA| |74E75F68D20DE477CECCFC67CE999DEDDAAB959EAF370EAE08A5F7AAA9D76A857CD| |1D16D5B3AFE4D59AC5855B35ADE17F4446EEBF5F8B6619AF1BC7C292DC392F19CEE| |25C7704B505893A694E965A7AA970AF9BDAA533A75ADC85D69D564BA99C0AEEE492| |774D3AA48475AF5746BD1B35EAD9AE955A9DB8655F6BB9BBC2D6529E02EAF1BE54A| |9D1C7DADA892746A15C3EEBF661BC5F4B2A9BF968535BD5697CE7E8C0E95A2FF42F| |374EED3E8124F09594DA825F09B2A4458135A91F79A4E1CD3C419C9FBADA6568136| |438B24F972CCB34BE006D39F07EF32B749AB40AB34B594AF27072E317B0715B75EE| |F05DE07B3CC7BA4F540EBD9E27CFDA813419D08EA0C6CB266E00EEF7748DBC5F755| |BAE69BF7F08A1858249F5751DDBCDE4B04CD2362E0F045B0C2771F8D52BE982626C| |39CFF3E697D7C26E143EC00D9BAD9A674FFE3DEB57409F205E00BA0FE39F001F9FA| |DCE634D43EDCEBDC26887B498A09E1BD858E553777FC17F813BCEC71CF36D1505D6| |65FF0D91F9236CCB5D5F01BD5AD3911E7DA136F3956A19828E717D103AEE921DB20| |748378DF9378DF9378DFBB143384730DED0AD73655062BA0C19C79063E673E22ED0| |87A32821ECE801AF9C6507B0CB664900C094D24A3CC32C58CA3F6387A92444FE6D0| |9339F4640E3D49A12721D226903F81FCA966FE698A8932C314338DFCD3EF55F7CCE| |7BF801FC08FCC854FE067E613D2CEB2569DC5BC2F609E1731EF870121E611337FC4| |E75A3C04DF318F28268DF94D7FE73B657F30235423035F26CA39B321E6A876F29DD| |31F3D625C3BF97A1BA90E6FA6C392EDB0E43A2C4B1D96D5768B8F7BBEAEA130D994| |29BE972F48DF34DB1AC7FE93DF06A12CF06CFCF1B7696EF1ACFD6E8F9BE5B8BFA73| |655C16C0731DBFD98ED1D7FB3435C4B6F5B3F6E5BAFB7AD37C224C3FA3FAF0EE79D| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Here's Kat/WP I did just recently. It's good for +1/+2.
I do strongly recommend Kat/Will for SO only, it was a smooth ride from level 1 to level 50. I have to say it was one of the most pleasant combinations to play.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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I'll second that. First time I tried it, I used brute force, it took forever. Second time through I used speed tactics for missions 1 and 2, and Hybrid speed tactics combined with kill-all near the AVs/Computer for Missions 3 and 4.
You really don't want to play their game and let them pile up too tight. Even with Tactics and BU, you can end up missing a lot. Circle Strafe or CJ from one side to the other of the pack and pick off the ones on the edges. But as soon as you see your "Last Chance to Hit" drop, it's time to move again, they're dog-piling too thick. If you have a ranged attack or hold, use that on the surgeons combined with surgical slicing and dicing. -
RE: Granite Agent
Summary- FU->Focus->Slash is the best ST damage chain for a brute.
- FU->Focus->Strike is second best and very close.
- FU->Eviserate->FU->Focus->Slash, or FU->Eviserate->FU->Focus->Strike is impractical, but would be third if it was achievable within practical limits.
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For the ST damage chain FU->Focus->Slash with sufficient recharge will have about a 1.42 second triple FU out of 3.83 seconds, or 37% of the time, assuming no lag.
FU at the recharge cap is 2.4 + 0.92 (arcanatime) = 3.32 second cycle. If you could find a perfect highest damage mini-chain that took exactly 2.4 seconds, you could perma triple stack. However, you also have to consider that brutes suffer from damage bonus saturation, you really can't afford to use anything but completely optimal attacks, extra damage bonus or no.
Strike and Focus would fill that 2.4 second perfectly, but does not have the achilles -res, that is a damage multiplier. While this means you are not perma-triple, that loss of another 30% damage buff in an already damage buff saturated environment is a slightly smaller loss than losing a 1.10x multiplier. This may be different for a scrapper.
with low to moderate Fury
X * (3.21 + .30) = 3.51X
(3.21 + (.30*.37))X * 1.1 = 3.65X
with moderate to high Fury
X * (3.42 + .30) = 3.72X
(3.42 + (.30*.37))X * 1.1 = 3.88X
So, while both versions are very close, the FU->Slash->Focus, has a slight lead. That lead, however, is further widened if you use Lore or PC Pets. X in this case works, as the raw dps of the two chains is similar enough. However, the value inside of X also slightly favors the FU->Focus->Slash chain.
It's worth noting that at very low fury, say the first 5 to 8 seconds of the fight, the triple version would be better, but by the time you fight long enough to have it triple stacked, the math has already swung in favor of the chain with achilles in it.
As for Eviscerate, you'd have to be at or beyond the recharge cap to consider it in the ST chain. If and only if, you were beyond the recharge cap, then the multiplier of using a Gladiator -Res Proc in it may compensate for the loss of dps due to the lower dpa. Anything short of the recharge cap will either introduce gaps, or require rotating lower frequency use, and the multiplier under those circumstances is not large enough to overcome the lower DPA. -
Quote:They are very similar in damage range. It feels like they nerfed kat a bit on brutes, in that it should have been pretty close to even at 67 fury, but feels like it needs closer to 82 to break even. I'm still working on my builds, due to limited time It'll be months before they are both finished enough to do apples to apples testing. For now all I have is purely subjective.Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Is there any reason to make a kat/wp as a scrapper (other than avoiding the fury mechanic)? Is the scrap damage high enough to notice a difference?
The brute may need a bit more fury than "usual" to fully leverage katana compared to other primaries, but WP is definitely better off as Brute. However, I wanted Shadowmeld with mine, so I went scrapper, that and I didn't want to wait on i21 for all my new builds, I wanted one I could start early. -
I always invest in Perf Proc, Miracle Proc, and Numina Proc. I typically buy these at min level with A-merits before I even create the character. Kismet +tohit, is another good early pic.
Non-set Frankenslotting your attacks first, toggles second, will make a huge difference.
Set slotting would be third, but I'd wait for at least level 32 to start that. -
Most likely Both. It depends.
You need a sufficiently good burn rate to last whatever the gap is between CPs.
CP will actually save you more endurance than PP, when active. However, because of the earlier statement, most builds will get more mileage out of PP. You have to manage your endurance during both the on and off cycle of CP. Once you've managed it during the off-cycle, chances are the only time you'll need the on-cycle is if you get hit with a debuff.
All that said, I do have a defender build that cycles CP and FoN as endurance management. CP recovers from the FoN Crash, and FoN is a +endurance power for when CP crashes. It works, with enough recharge, but it's not really something I recommend. -
/maxinactivefps 1
/stopinactivedisplay 1
Then I'd park a Cold/ and a Sonic/ outside with each other as targets. As you walk by to get your mission, you punch up defense, resist, and +HP. No need for them to be on your team, enter the mission, or even be very high level. level 10 would be plenty for basic shields, level 15 ish for full powered shields. -
I skipped Frag and WAWG in favor of Crowd Control, and useable mace attack chain. I open up from range, then move in and finish them off with the mace. It's all just a matter of preference.
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If you have no clue what you want, I'd say take a huntsman.
The build in my sig is hybrid, Gun, Mace, and Pets; The gun from the Huntsman, the Mace like a bane, and some pets like a Crab. You can use it entirely at range, or you can close in for up close and personal mace action, and you have pets too. If you find you prefer the mace, move on toward a bane. If you find you prefer the gun, go more huntsman. If you find you prefer the pets, move on to a Pet Based Crab build. However, my huntsman may be too expensive for you, if so, try Red Lynne's build, it may or may not be less expensive, and also has a more SO oriented version as well. I've not done a SO only build in years. -
I wouldn't touch a resist set without IOs.
SO only, Regen is one of the strongest, if not strongest sets, but is very very interactive and extremely difficulty to actually pull that performance out of it.
Sword/Willpower with DA/Perry Slotted Acc, End, Dam, Dam, Def, (Def, Dam, or Rech). For out of the box performance that won't mind being half-frazzled and brain-dead from chasing two boys from one end of the house to the other, probably can't be beat. I prefer the Katana version, but the BroadSword version is just as good. Everything else I'd recommend would come with some exception, or caveat, or warning, or special instructions. This one just works, it's good steady performance. On the down side of that, it's good steady performance.
With one accuracy and the sword to debuff defense, you should be fine up to +2, However, +3's will give you trouble without additional accuracy, to-hit buffs, or additional defense debuffs.
Something along the following lines:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.951
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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Browse the forum a bit, there are at least 4 or 5 just in the first few posts.
You can also browse the build archives in my sig. a free Goggle Docs or Gmail account may be required to login. Just because a build is in my archives does not mean it's a good build, user discretion is advised. -
You can browse the archives in my sig for builds. A free google docs or gmail account may be required to login. Just because a build is in my archives doesn't mean it's a good, nor up to date build, user discretion is advised.
If you want the most survivable scrapper, that's 2 threads down from here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=273445
If you want simple, easy to use, but effective, works great even on SOs, then you may, or may not want something along the lines of: Katana/Willpower
If you want massive damage powerhouse on an unlimited budget, then you may or may not want: SS/FA/Mu or SS/FA/Pyre Brute
If you want simple easy self-power-leveling, self-supported, self-influence build, yet still effective then you'll want a CEBR: Claws/Electric Brute http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=267375
Beyond that you'd have to ask something a bit more specific. There are over a hundred combinations of Primary and Secondary, and then dozens of builds within each of those. -
I look for Spike Protection, Damage Mitigation and permissibility, and HPS Recovery/Regen/Healing.
DM/INV is probably the top of the heap.
Softcapped Willpower is likely next. I'm a big fan of Kat/WP atm for even more defense, but DM/WP with the right build may top it. I felt like Kat/Wp was a better synergy.
DM/Regen may well be able to pull in 350 400 hps, but will be lacking in armor, resistance, and permissibility. Kat/Regen, or BS/Regen can fill in the gap some, as can Shadow Meld, MoG, and Candy. But eventually, the holes will catch up to you, and this kind of build will cost you exponentially more than the DM/INV. Just not worth it. IMO. Then again, 400 hps would be a sight to see, and nothing less than massive spike or massive DDR failure would take you down. Maybe it would be worth it, but not on my budget.
DA just doesn't have the spike protection. If you get double tapped, you're done. Otherwise, I'd say it's great. Werner's Kat/DA version is spectacular. But I think it was Bassackward's DM/INV (I don't recall who it was) that was even more survivable in the builds I've looked at over the years.
DM/SD is overall very good, great offense and great defense, but similarly lacks spike protection. Again, if you get double tapped, you're done. But, if you want a lean mean AV fighting machine, this is definitely in the short-list, if not the top of the list.
No set is perfect, but each of the following are ones to look into:
Kat/BS: Large Magnitude Defense Boost
DM: Small Magnitude Defense Boost, Medium Magnitude HPS boost.
INV: Large Magnitude Spike and Defense, and Resist Boost, lacks HPS.
WP: Moderate Magnitude Defense, Resist, and Spike. Large Magnitude HPS. Needs a small boost in defense and or resist.
SD: Low Magnitude Spike and resist. Moderate Magnitude Defense. Large Magnitude Damage Bonus. Needs HPS, small defense and moderate resist boosts.
Mix and Match the above, and you'll get the short-list. -
Huntsman can have more ST offense than crabs. Crabs can have more AoE. However, while the crab does get additional attacks, a large amount of AoE can come from Patrons as well, once those are figured in, the AoE still favors the crab, but by a smaller margin. The more the crab pushes his AoE advantage, the more his ST tends to suffer. The more the huntsman pushes his ST advantage, the more his AoE suffers.
Defensively, the huntsman can survive 90% or 95% of what the crab can, but does have to watch the battlefield more closely and carefully to do so.
I also find it a bit more difficult and expensive to soft-cap the Crab, especially the average crab build that puts an emphasis on (ranged) AoEs.
In the end, the huntsman takes down hard targets faster while still chewing through the hordes at a good speed. If you play +4x8 No Bosses No AVs, then You'll want the crab, hands down, no contest. If you play +4x8 With Bosses, EBs, and AVs, you'll want the Huntsman, unless it's Cheat DE, Carnies, or a few other extra hard targets that require more defense. When you team with others, you'll probably mostly want the huntsman in order to further leverage those offensive multipliers, with the team making up for the small survivability and AoE losses; unless the rest of the team are level 20 or below, AE Babies, door sitters, etc. that contribute to neither survivability nor AoE offense.
If you're me, that means, dual builds using primarily the Huntsman, then using the crab as needed.
If you typically solo +4x8 no bosses no AVs and typically get poor teams that do little to contribute to survivability, or contribute mostly melee and very little AoE, then you end up the opposite of myself and go, Dual Builds using primarily the crab, then using the huntsman when permitted.
I will admit, when I'm PuG-ing, I'm 9 times out of 10 in Crab form. When I'm in Coalition, I'm 9 times out of 10 in Huntsman form. Solo, I'm 3 out of 4 times in Huntsman form. If I wasn't in a pretty good Coalition, that would change dramatically. -
This new forum software won't let me stay logged in or edit anything.
Anyway, If I was going to change the build more, I'd work in more ranged defense to softcap without Barrier, so I could use rebirth instead. something like the following.
my apologies for not being able to append this to the above post.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.95
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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Who knows where I'd go from here. I love the pets, but haven't really found them good enough to build an entire build around, nor to make entirely perma. IF we could control them better, and get the recharge down to half their duration, then I'd be sold. As is, it's more of a love/hate relationship with me. -
- That style build is better served with hover.
- Rebirth would likely server you better than Barrier.
- It's less "thematic" but Mu with Mu Fences, Mu Ball, Mu Pet would almost certainly give you better DPA and DPS.
- I would proc for damage over Force Feedback.
- Then swap the last pet set and use some enhancement boosters.
- Lastly, your personal accuracy may not be that bad, but your pets need help if you plan on hunting +4s. You really want some form of tactics.
Without making wholesale changes and building from the ground up, this is how I'd do it if my goals were what your goals appeared to be. I sacrificed SS, and swapped a few minor things around. I'd use door stacking of stealth procs for 90% of my stealth needs, for the rest I'd pickup a PvP stealth power (limited use, limited number of times you can aquire one) and use the latter VERY sparingly. Door stacking can give you 120 seconds of stealth at the start of every mission. More than enough to stealth most missions that can be stealthed.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.95
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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I use:
45 - (PB+FS) + FS = Soft Cap with FS toggled on, but PB toggled off.
Example:
PB + FS = 31.98
FS = 19.69
45 - 31.98 + 19.69 = 32.71
So, if the build with FS toggled on, and PB toggled off, the defense value in the totals box is 32.71 or greater, then I'm soft-capped.
For My defender builds it's 32.7, for the corruptor versions it's 37.6. It should be fairly safe to assume 33 and 38 for most any decent build as a quick check. -
I only play 2-3 hours twice a week, so that PvP +3 takes about 35 weeks on A-Merits. That's why I said I'd rather roll it as Traps/Fire now that i21 is out.
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Here's my i19 build.
I haven't bothered to actually do it in-game, I've retired her and don't feel like spending the 4 billion for the PvP IO I'd rather use elsewhere.
I'd rather just roll it as Traps/Fire and save billions on the cost of the build.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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- Yes, I global emailed myself inspirations of all types.
- I also have an alt account that can do so on the fly.
- I also have /auctionhouse or /toggle auction (works places the official version doesn't) to restock between battles. Buy them up and store them ahead of time. I never used it during battle, so I'm not sure if you can mid battle. The unofficial version "/toggle auction" may work mid-battle, I'll have to test that later.
- I kept a constant flow of purples for ~70 defense all, also I could kite and still do damage when needed. A scrapper/brute can do this with the Combat Jumping Method.
- I also used ultimate inspirations when needed. Turned out I didn't need them as much as I thought. I could probably do completely without them if I wanted to do it again. But, that first time around, I needed all the edges I could get as I learned the tricks.