Primary comparisons


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Hi all returning player from way back in the day. Haven't played since villans came out.

I needed some info on scrapper/brute primaries. Maybe a little info on each on what their best at. Which make good pairs with certain secondaries. Your favorite combos and why there good. Even some example builds cause the guides are so old and there's alot I don't remember. I love melee combat in coh and can't wait to hear everyones opinions.


 

Posted

The most logical answer for scrappers is Any / Any. There really aren't many (if any) vastly underpowered primaries or secondaries. That being said, there are some sets that excel at one thing or another or synergize well with particular secondaries.

Single Target Focused
Dark Melee
Kinetic Melee (Debatable, to an extent)
Martial Arts

AOE Focused
Electric Melee
Spines

Healthy Mix
All Others

What do you want to do with your scrapper?
Do you want to mow down hordes of enemies?
Do you want to focus on extremely tough targets?
Are you a fan of active damage mitigation (Clicking heals / buffs / etc)?

I am a bit of a bad person to ask about my favorite since it changes so often. The only scrapper I have actually gotten to 50 was a Claws / WP, and he was pretty powerful. All of the others get started, level up to 20-40, then get benched as I come up with new concepts!


 

Posted

You can browse the archives in my sig for builds. A free google docs or gmail account may be required to login. Just because a build is in my archives doesn't mean it's a good, nor up to date build, user discretion is advised.

If you want the most survivable scrapper, that's 2 threads down from here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=273445

If you want simple, easy to use, but effective, works great even on SOs, then you may, or may not want something along the lines of: Katana/Willpower

If you want massive damage powerhouse on an unlimited budget, then you may or may not want: SS/FA/Mu or SS/FA/Pyre Brute

If you want simple easy self-power-leveling, self-supported, self-influence build, yet still effective then you'll want a CEBR: Claws/Electric Brute http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=267375

Beyond that you'd have to ask something a bit more specific. There are over a hundred combinations of Primary and Secondary, and then dozens of builds within each of those.


 

Posted

Well I want to solo. I have kids and have to afk alot. I want to be able to solo up to bosses. Im only gunna use so's cause ill be going back to premium at end of cycle. I really like the willpower secondary. The only other I have tried is invul and super reflexes both are ok to me. I like the shield concept but not sure on a defense only set. Im not looking to solo avs lol just do most content solo with the occasional group. I like low level electricity secondary but not sure how it preforms late game.


 

Posted

I hear you on the kids part

Willpower is great fun. I really like the fire and forget nature of it - It lends itself quite well to weapon sets (With a redraw animation).

Based upon your comments, I'd recommend:

Katana / Willpower
Dual Blades / Willpower
Martial Arts / Willpower
Dark Melee / Willpower

Since you'll only be using SOs, Katana would give you the benefit of Melee / Lethal defense for survivability.

Martial Arts has a good number of stuns / knockbacks / etc, so you'll get a bit of mitigation that way.

Dark Melee has a solid attack that also provides a decent heal, so you'll gain survivability that way as well.


 

Posted

How is electric secondary for late game. I really like the damage aura it gives off. I like claws/katana/broadsword/spines primaries alot. I have a katana/regen in the 30's and like him alot but regen is really lacking in damage reduction. Clicking alot and having to redraw my weapon over and over sucks lol.


 

Posted

I don't have first hand experience with Electric, but it should work just fine.

Since the set has no defense, you'll get hit a lot, but you do have solid resists and a pretty good heal / regen buff in the set.

Electric's heal, endurance recovery, and Tier 9 ability are the only clickable abilities, so you won't have too many issues with redraw if you choose to go for a weapon set.

If you plan to do mission arcs and the occasional task force / group content, I think you'll enjoy the set just fine. Honestly, though, try to pick a set you'll like in terms of concept and visuals as well or you may find yourself subconsciously disliking your character...Not that I have person experience or anything


 

Posted

Kat and Broad will go well with /elec because of Divine Avalanche and Parry, giving you some melee defense. The end drain from /elec is good mitigation, too. Claws is a solid set and with the +speed from elec, shockwave can keep foes knocked down well. Spines is rather AoE oriented and parred with /elec, you can make a good farmer; although, most power farmers go spine/fire or spine/dark because they are less resisted. Spine/elec shouldnt be a problem, anything can "farm" if you really like it.


Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Louisiana View Post
I like the shield concept but not sure on a defense only set.
I find Shield to be one of the more offensive secondary sets for scrappers. It does not have a damage aura like FA, DA or EA but it has Against All Odds which adds more damage with each enemy within AAO's radius. Shield Charge is also a nice AoE attack, fairly long recharge but it's knock up effect can be useful.

For single target damage, I like DM/Shield; for AoE damage, I like EM/Shield or Spines/DA.

I haven't tried one yet but EM/FA looks like it might be the king for AoE with Thunderstrike, Lightning Rod, Blazing Aura, Burn, Build Up and Fiery Embrace.


 

Posted

I wouldn't touch a resist set without IOs.

SO only, Regen is one of the strongest, if not strongest sets, but is very very interactive and extremely difficulty to actually pull that performance out of it.

Sword/Willpower with DA/Perry Slotted Acc, End, Dam, Dam, Def, (Def, Dam, or Rech). For out of the box performance that won't mind being half-frazzled and brain-dead from chasing two boys from one end of the house to the other, probably can't be beat. I prefer the Katana version, but the BroadSword version is just as good. Everything else I'd recommend would come with some exception, or caveat, or warning, or special instructions. This one just works, it's good steady performance. On the down side of that, it's good steady performance.

With one accuracy and the sword to debuff defense, you should be fine up to +2, However, +3's will give you trouble without additional accuracy, to-hit buffs, or additional defense debuffs.

Something along the following lines:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.951
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Louisiana View Post
Well I want to solo. I have kids and have to afk alot. I want to be able to solo up to bosses. Im only gunna use so's cause ill be going back to premium at end of cycle. I really like the willpower secondary. The only other I have tried is invul and super reflexes both are ok to me. I like the shield concept but not sure on a defense only set. Im not looking to solo avs lol just do most content solo with the occasional group. I like low level electricity secondary but not sure how it preforms late game.
I have a L50 elec/elec scrap with near-softcap S/L and a full set of Incarnate powers. It's probably one of the highest damaging toons I play, once I get the rhythm down, and a lot of fun.

Electric melee is ALL about buildup and lightning rod. OMG, the damages.....

On SO's only, electric armor does fine as long as you remember that endurance drain is part of your mitigation: You will find yourself getting beat up early, then the incoming damage peters out as they run out of end, then energize is up and you're healed again. You for sure won't be running +4 ITF's or anything, but you will not be terribly squishy by SO standards. No, you won't be Invuln or willpower tough, either, but that's the price you pay for the damage aura, which RAWKS.

One piece of advice: If you choose electric melee, take and use an extra ST pool attack. I chose Air Superiority for the awesome knockdown, and just endure the loss of my kb resistance while I'm flying. Boxing will also serve if you'd rather, and is probably a 'smarter' choice.

I just like flying every now and then.

A nice approach for you might be sword/electric. The parry melee defense will realllly help an electric armor.

EDIT: Important safety tip: Things run from electric armor scrappers. I solved this on mine by killing them so fast, but on SO's it might be an issue. Go brute, or take wp/invuln/shield.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLane View Post
The most logical answer for scrappers is Any / Any. There really aren't many (if any) vastly underpowered primaries or secondaries.
Broadsword. Pretty much straight inferior to Kat except for looks and the ability to pair with shield.

And for PvP.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
Broadsword. Pretty much straight inferior to Kat except for looks and the ability to pair with shield.
But it's not very inferior to Katana. They're pretty close. It certainly could not be described as "vastly underpowered," even by munchkins.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
But it's not very inferior to Katana. They're pretty close. It certainly could not be described as "vastly underpowered," even by munchkins.
Wouldn't it compare even more favorably vs Katana at SO levels as well? Katana's top chains come into play at very high levels of recharge.

Also, taking on even to plus one missions could favor the slightly higher damaging attacks in BS.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLane View Post
Wouldn't it compare even more favorably vs Katana at SO levels as well? Katana's top chains come into play at very high levels of recharge.

Also, taking on even to plus one missions could favor the slightly higher damaging attacks in BS.
It's not just the damage. Divine avalanche recharges faster than parry, as do the other attacks, and yet the bonus lasts just as long and is the same size per application. Especially if you only need to use it one time instead of double stack, that really adds up. Again, procs all work better in katana since they check more often. magnifying the difference.

@sailboat. It isn't vastly inferior no. But it is, I think, the lowest performing primary. Way back when "the results are in" the only ones that did less DPS than BS in both the SO only and IOd tests were the AoE-based sets like spines. And on SOs it was noticably behind Katana.

Now with mace and axe available, both do the same or better damage (WM better because smashing > lethal) and both have more mitigation. I really think it may be the bottom performing primary. Are there any that do less damage ST without doing more AoE?

the issue I have seen is simply that damage vs speed, they balanced a tad too much on speed. Since it is way easier to build for 140% bonus recharge than 140% damage (meaningless numbers used just because they are large enough to make it hard to achieve damage wise but possible for recharge), this initially small difference gets magnified.

And it seems, though I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, that Nihili, Werner, Iggy, et al go for Kat every time over BS in top end builds. Except when /shield comes into play. But I have to wonder, would any min maxer take BS over kat if /shield allowed kat to work?


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
And it seems, though I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, that Nihili, Werner, Iggy, et al go for Kat every time over BS in top end builds. Except when /shield comes into play. But I have to wonder, would any min maxer take BS over kat if /shield allowed kat to work?
The performance difference between Broad Sword and Katana isn't something I notice seat of the pants, so to me, its mostly about how smashy I'm feeling with a particular character. Katana isn't very smashy. Sometimes I prefer smashy. When I do, the numbers don't get in my way.

Admittedly, I've only done Katana on my top end builds. In one case, it was a character older than when I started paying attention to numbers, so this was mere coincidence. In the other case, it was a deliberate choice. But I DO have two level 50 Broad Swords (and I'm not a power leveler with a huge collection - I stop and smell the roses). I like Broad Sword.

Divine Avalanche is actually the same as Parry, I think the one attack that's an exact clone other than name and animation. That's probably for the best. In any case, it means the defensive potential of both sets is basically equal.

I wouldn't be opposed to a very mild damage boost to Broad Sword to bring it to parity with Katana.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
One piece of advice: If you choose electric melee, take and use an extra ST pool attack. I chose Air Superiority for the awesome knockdown, and just endure the loss of my kb resistance while I'm flying. Boxing will also serve if you'd rather, and is probably a 'smarter' choice.
If you're going Electric Armor, I would additionally recommend trying to fit in Burnout. Electric Armor seems to love Burnout. To the OP: all the travel power pools have an extra fifth power added recently: the speed pool got Burnout. Burnout instantly recharges all your primary and secondary powers (but not pool or epic powers) and costs 25 end and temporarily (60s I think) reduces your max endurance by 25%.

The costs for burnout are pretty heavy for most characters, but Electric Armor practically doesn't care: it has both a conserve power ability and an endurance drain/recovery power, so endurance is usually not a problem. Burnout can act as a temporary panic button: you can use Energize (heal + conserve power) and then Power Sink, then Burnout, then Energize and Power Sink again. Everything will be drained to zero, and you'll be basically at full health. Burnout has such a long recharge you can't do this often, but its an interesting option.

Especially with an all SO build, this sort of thing is an easy way to get a temporary big boost in performance. You don't have to do them back to back like that either: you can be going along using Power Sink and Energize at will, and then if you suddenly find yourself in trouble and they are still recharging use Burnout to get them back immediately. The Energize/Power Sink combination itself will carry you through the Burnout mini-crash.


Now, if you're primarily going to solo, and you like melee combat, and you are thinking of dropping back down to premium and want to use only SOs, then may I suggest you take a look at tankers. SR just got ported to tankers, and when SR uses tanker mods rather than scrapper mods, you end up with just SO-slotted SR powers getting to 40.56% defense. With SR toggles and passives and just combat jumping 3-slotted with SOs you're already up to 44.46% defense. You're already just a half percent from the defensive soft cap - in other words, you're nearly perma-eluded to most situations with SOs and combat jumping.

You're going to have issues with high tohit situations and trying to solo AVs without IOs will be difficult without extra health, regen, or resistance bonuses, or enhanced recovery to power offense, but since you're not looking to do any of those things, just roll up a melee and go pound things on a simple SO build, perhaps SR tanker might be a better match to your requirements. SR/Dark Melee would be extremely difficult to kill even with just SOs and you have Dark Consumption for extra recovery without the use of IOs. But SR/anything tanker might be one of the better all-SO soloing melee options out there, particularly because you aren't necessarily tanking for anyone, so you can play it like a scrapper and avoid the few situations that SR is weak to (like Praetorian DE with their increased tohit).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linea_Alba View Post
I wouldn't touch a resist set without IOs.
I tanked Burkholder and a room-full of Council on a SO-only Katana/Elec after the rest of the team wiped. The only problem I had was running out of endurance, since I was only in the low 30s, and Power Sink isn't available until 35.


 

Posted

I hope energy armour likes burnout too on my km/ng


Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server