Kitsune Knight
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Posts
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Seems like it would be a fun challenge to try to create a program to accomplish this task. Since I first saw this thread, I've already thought of a number of different methods. For my first one, I tried to improve on the "highest DPA attack available" method you mentioned, by also factoring in what the DPS would be of all if you were willing to have gaps (I was allowing for a situation where you might not have a perfect chain).
To test it out, I created a few fake powers real quick (since I was lazy, only 3), they were (Dam/Anim/Rech): 5/1/3, 42/0.5/2.4, & 50/0.1/8 (internally it uses ArcanaTime instead of the provided animation time). The chain that it computed ended up with a DPS of 38.27 (stopping after it went for at least 60 seconds), and based on the output it about half the time picked a power that was already recharged.
Two major problems with this I realized would be that it'd at least be theoretically possible that it'd opt to wait for a power, when another would have been capable of running in that gap time (although I'm not sure of any powers that'd realistically occur with), and the other side is, like yours, it doesn't actually do any planning beyond one move.
At this point, I think the only real method would be an exhaustive brute force search. There's probably a few tricks to eliminate a few possible combinations to speed up the search, but likely we'll have to search most of the possible combinations. Say, every possible combination of attacks, up to X number deep. The different paths through the tree would be evaluated based on the total damage, divided by the number of seconds it'd take to cast it all the powers (plus any time before it could be run again), resulting in the DPS for a complete chain.
At that point, the chains could just be sorted by their DPS, which'd give us the 'optimal' chain (or chains, if it's short enough that it'd be repeated multiple times in the constraints laid out... although a bit of code could be added to prune those from the results).
A bit later, I'll probably take a crack at implementing something like this, should be fairly fun to do. -
Quote:True, but then again, for most characters, if you're using them as part of an attack chain you probably need help anywaysOriginally Posted by rsclark
Come on, really? If you're using vet powers as part of a normal attack chain, then you will have end problems. They are hogs. Not a complaint, mind you, since that's not their purpose.
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Lord Recluse decided to be gender inclusive. That was actually the (semi-joking) RP reason given when they were announced.
You could also just assume that there were male widows before, just the well known ones are female... and until recently the males had to wear rather misleading outfits
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Quote:Oppressive Gloom, actually, does use endurance... 0.08/s... which actually isn't the lowest in the game (Combat Jumping uses 0.06/s).Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Not brawl.
(And I kept a straight face while holding up that example)
Opressive Gloom, too - but that uses a self-dot instead.
Hide, though, also doesn't cost endurance (it did originally). It was changed because Stalkers were pissed that they sucked, and that they never got Quick Recovery.
Domination, also, doesn't use endurance... but it's really in the same category as Hide and Brawl- inherent powers to the AT (although Hide costs a power slot, it's required for every Stalker so it pretty much is, especially since it was fundamental to the original inherent, and still is a huge component of it).
Plus, there's all the passives...
The Devs might be willing to change your version of the Vet attacks to cost no endurance if they had the same damage scale as Brawl, but using the Ranged modifier instead of the Melee modifier (so about half the damage of Brawl for most of the ATs oh, and no origin-based bonus).
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I prefer to team.
There, now the performance difference surmounts to a rounding error
Soloing, even with a good build, gets very boring very fast. If I wanted to just solo, I'd find a standard single player game, which'd likely have much better graphics, performance, and gameplay than any MMO. I do occasionally solo, but mostly because at times I just want to experience the story (like with the Praetorian content), and in those cases I'm not really caring about leveling up, or going through the missions fast.
If I'm wanting a character that can solo well, I'll put more effort into filling their slots, but even then there's things that just have a low priority- the powers like health that make a small impact on your to begin with, or boxing/kick if I'm picking up tough/weave, and lots of other mostly-crappy powers out there. Powers that are useless enough that the performance difference will be less than that amount of time it takes to slot the power. -
Quote:Personally, I'll slot even level 15 IOs as I'm leveling up. They're good enough for quite a long time for me. And as I've said before, I've level 50s that STILL have lvl 25 generics (which are absolutely USELESS if you then try to exemp down and fight in bloody bay! They were less effective than TOs pretty much!).Originally Posted by Fulmens
... so did nobody want to discuss the part where level 20 IO's are "optimal"? I almost never use 'em- I can wait till level 22 for SO's, then 27 or 32 to Frankenslot.
Of course, I never bother filling every slot- it's just a waste of time when the performance difference will be so small. I fill them as I level up, slowly. It works quite well, and I never have to spend a bunch of time crafting.
Edit: If you were planning on replacing your IOs every 5 levels anyways, then slotting level 20s is pretty silly. In that case, I'd wait until 30-35! 35 is the first level that (generic) IOs are never worse than SOs. -
Mids' has a lot of subtle bugs like that, that's likely a known issue by the current maintainers (I actually seem to recall this very question being asked before... sans alpha slot, though).
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Getting the required prestige also isn't very hard if you get a friend to invite your various alts on that server to the SG- that way all of them will be naturally working towards earning your prestige- plus each character that joins gives you a bonus of some amount of prestige (I thought it was 10,000, but can't recall) as long as they stay in the group.
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Thanks for the information, it's good to know for future reference!
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Quote:As you know, a picture is proof that it's true!Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
What?
After all, I only need this image to prove that 2 billion is not the inf cap!
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I don't believe it supports mono currently, which means no non-windows support.
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How about going around giving inf to random players named Kitsune Knight on the boards? Seems like a good project to me!
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You could check to see if it has anything to do with the Alpha Ability by temporarily taking it off (in both the game and Mids), and then checking the numbers for Healing Flames. If they're the same, it has to do with the Alpha, if different, it's unrelated (unless you got multiple issues... but lets not go there).
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I decided to try launching my US client with the flag -project eucoh, and it started up with the EU splash screen/settings (bah, stupid default full screen resolution!). I tried to login, and it actually let me, but only showed 1 green server named 'UNKNOWN'... so sounds like there's at least a few differences. When I tried clicking the server, I eventually got the usual DB error.
I wonder if EU and US have the same login server we all go through? -
Quote:I have no problem with doing it. Occasionally you'll get some hold up with a piece of salvage or two (generally because you're just being greedy during a drought), but that's never a problem for any sort of extended period of time- anywhere from minutes to hours that'll be cleared up: so just place those bids and do something else for a while, and they'll be bought on their own.
Yeah. That's what I'm getting at. At level 20, I need 35 IO's to fill all my enhancement slots so that I won't have to bother with DO's and SO's anymore. That's considered the optimal time to do inventions, because you get decent bonuses, and you can still build them with beginner level salvage.
Or, equally likely (and much more likely for common salvage), the supply is VERY high. Very high supply means prices will plummet... with 50 inf being the reasonable amount.Quote:If the price is 50 inf in a proper market, that would indicate that demand is low, and there's little benefit to be had by increasing supply.
Back when AE farming was still new and the biggest rage, the price of common salvage SKYROCKETED. Why did this occur? Based on your logic, that means demand INCREASED for those items... which wasn't the case. Prices went up because no body was rolling them! Everyone was trying to roll rares to sell on the market to make money (which caused the price of rares to tank, and the price of common/uncommon to inflate massively). I made a nice profit off rolling common/uncommon and listing them on the market (plus, I was improving the market).
Your logic REALLY doesn't make any sense at all. I think you need to go to ParagonWiki and read about the basics of how this market works. Also, go to Wikipedia and read up the basics of Supply & Demand, because you're missing a whole half of that equation!Quote:If the price is 50 in a blocked market, that could be either because demand is low, or because it is high and a lot of people have placed large standing orders. If demand is high, then the best result for everyone would be to see supply increase. But the likely result is that supply will drop instead. That's a bad thing, because it makes more people unhappy.
If demand is high, the prices will increase until an equilibrium is reached (there'll be minor fluctuations, but that's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, or for the person that can place bids overnight). -
Since the EU and US server lists are being merged, that got me wondering two things:
What differences are there between the European client and the US client? (I'm fairly certain the differences are more than just the US client is started with -project coh and the EU one uses -project eucoh) I thought I read some stuff about the EU client including extra support for foreign languages (although that might just be translations).
And, if there are differences... any idea if we'd be able to use either version of the client once the merger happens? -
Quote:That's only true for minor arcs. Major arcs have a limit. As the OP said, he has no active missions currently (he even abandoned the only one he had at the time).Originally Posted by TheUnnamedOne
The number of ARCs doesn't matter at all, you can have as many active contacts/arcs as you want.
You can only have seven active MISSIONS at any one time. Just complete one of your active missions but do NOT start the next mission from the contact and you'll be able to start Ramiel's arc. -
Quote:Ah, good catch. I went to Pwiki to make sure I was right before, and I'm pretty sure when I quickly looked I read the wrong thing (since I just went to check, and it doesn't mention the 20 million inf there
I think you just get the Reward Merits and have to provide the 20 million inf to make an A-merit yourself. ). Good catch!
Also, I'm rather liking the 1 A-Merit for 5 rare recipes dealio, although it's more of a gamble than just going with a known-winner like LotG+Recharge. -
Quote:Do you replace all your enhancements every 5 levels? That's just a complete and total waste of inf and time (I have multiple 50s with 20 & 25 level generic IOs!).Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
At that rate, I'd be making about 5 recipes a day assuming one play session per day. But at level 20 I have 30 enhancement slots to fill, 35 if you count the inherent fitness powers and rest.
If nobody wanted it, you'd be getting zero inf for it. 50 inf shows that there's some level of demand, which, based on the level of supply (you missed that partQuote:Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I'm bothered whenever I see market behavior that doesn't follow free market rules. I don't care which direction the price is deviating in. In an ideal market, if you're only getting 50 inf for your salvage, the reason is because nobody wants it.) results in a price of 50 inf.
Again, you don't seem to be really understanding what's going on here. You will never get less inf that you post the item for upon sell! (ignoring the market fees, of course) If you post an item for 50 inf... it's not going to be going to the people waiting over night, as their order will be filled the moment they place the order (assuming you posted it up first, otherwise the moment you post it if they place first).Quote:On the other hand, if the reason you're only getting 50 inf for your salvage is because it's sufficiently valuable that other players are willing to give up precious inventory slots on their character's account in order to post low overnight bids, ...... and you decide to delete your salvage rather than sell it, then your decision is going to make a few people happy at the expense of the many. (Because the will of the many is for supply to increase.)
I'm starting to think you posted this thread because you don't like market people.Quote:People who are really into playing the market really enjoy this stuff, but they are also a small minority of the playing population. If them having fun means everyone else doesn't have fun, then it would be very foolish of NCSoft to favor them. -
Quote:First off, a week? Seriously? Come on now. It'll clear up anywhere from a few minutes to the end of your play session, and will DEFINITELY be gone the next day. Just place the bids for the stuff you want at the end of one session, and then craft the next.Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
In other words, spend a week doing my IO's at level 20. That [sarcasm] sounds like a lot of fun [/sarcasm]
I guess I'm just a moron. Here I thought I was playing a game that was designed to be fun, and it turns it was actually designed to be tedious. I'm bringing this up partly because I think the devs ought to take a look at it. Any practical solution they can devise that doesn't cost too much to implement will certainly help their bottom line. The market is kind of a core part of the game.
You do realize that the LOWEST seller gets the HIGHEST bid, right? I don't see how you could claim it's somehow bad for the seller if you know about that (they're more so indifferent to it). You also seem to be contradicting yourself, on one hand you're arguing for higher prices, and on the other you're complaining about higher prices!Quote:I should be clear that the problem is not me on the buying end. It's the seller who gets screwed. The seller just wants to get rid of the stuff so they can get more drops, but if the price is only going to be 5 inf per item, then he/she might as well just delete it and save him/her-self a trip. Usually salvage doesn't drop in stacks (sometimes it does, just not usually.) Nobody wants to tie up all 15 of their market slots selling "simple chemical" type salvages.
Right now, you have to kind of naive to put any of that stuff on the market, or you're going for a badge.
People also sell common salvage for minimum inf ALL the time (hence why it generally goes for minimum!), I used to do it myself (it was less time than going to the store to sell), but since I came back recently I haven't bothered on many, since they often have tens of thousands in backlog with zero bids- I just end up deleting most. -
Quote:Fitness wasn't removed so much as given to everyone for free (at level 2 or so). Existing characters with any fitness powers will have to respec to be able to get the inherent version (can't have 2 copies of StaminaOriginally Posted by Kelraz
Thanks for all the posts!
Fitness I see was removed from the game, that's a curious change.).
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Quote:And the first words of that post were: For larger amountsOriginally Posted by Blue Lava
Ahh but you quoted me in your 2nd post on this thread even tho my post was nothing about multi-million inf items either...
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Quote:Masterminds got bodyguard mode, and I'm pretty certain Scrappers had at least a few modifications to the AT... in addition most of the powersets in the game have been modified quite a bit.Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Scrappers and Mastermind are the only two I can think of without significant change
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Quote:I believe I replied to you, not the OP.Originally Posted by Blue Lava
100+ Million - 2Billion inf items are not what the OP's OP was in regards to The quote that was referring to was talking about being at the BM to "buy and then craft something". All people were doing were pointing out alternatives, as well as the fact that the BM/WW can occasionally take several seconds just to register something being posted.
There's no reason to get antsy, no one's saying omg you can't do that!!!!, just pointing out alternatives that are applicable to the OP's original question: "What to do about Market Blockers?" - the two good answers being pay it and suck it up, or to place a bid and wait a little bit. Both are fine answers, neither is intrinsically better or worse than the other. -
Just to annoy you all: I was running a Hami raid earlier on my Fire/Kin, only to realize half way through that I hadn't actually turned in the arc! So after the half way bloom, I hopped over to Oz and turned it in, getting my 1 shard. Go back to doing the Hami, and end with the 4 reward shards, along with 2 extras from just killing blue & green mitos, as well as hami. Wanting to get 8 to craft the level 1 alpha, I went over to my BM map, started killing, and opened my Salvage window so I'd see when/if I got an 8th... only to realize I already got it! Second group got me the shard
So I run over to Vanguard to get the one from the vanguard merits... only to realize I had only ~75, not the required 150!
