King_Moloch

qft

Bill, GET DRAGON AGE AND BORDERLANDS.

DO IT, DO IT NAOW. LOTS of fun.

Church say Amen.

Psssh. Halloween can NEVER have too much content.

And I have to agree with the OP. Holy crap I'm having fun with this. GREAT job, you guys.

Or they are at a loss on how to improve them in a manner that would address the many issues the playerbase seems to have with them.


And your analysis is somehow less meaningless because you're telling them what they already know?


But didn't you just earlier demand some kind of hard numbers addressing that people are dissatisfied with the kheldians performance? What kind of numbers would satisfy you? A statistical analysis of all players that have ever teamed with a kheldian or played one? A "fun o meter" with a numerical scale? What?


I see. So since you've decided for me that fun was too "subjective" for us to discuss in an adult fashion, and you've further decided for me that I'm not having fun, you've concluded for me that I should leave...

I think not. I'm still having a great time with this game, always have. I think you deciding for me that I should leave because I disagree with your assessment is very telling...


With that I cannot disagree. Without the players' assistance this game would certainly not be in the condition it is today. However, I think demanding that all players must memorize their spreadsheets and calculate the game into tedium or accept that their opinions are meaningless is incredibly pompous and foolish. Not everyone that plays this game is a mathematician. Demanding that they become so or they "should play WoW" is just... wrong.


Then you would be wrong. I don't need anything to be proven. My experience has provided all the evidence I need. We are addressing your earlier demand for "numbers to back it up".

Not sure where you were going with this. I don't recall ever espousing a "don't do anything" attitude. Think you must have been thinking about too many other folk's posts when you responded to mine. I'm all for feedback. I kind of think there should be polls before you can log in. I also think each player should be able to post whatever feedback is in their means and capabilities to do so. Demanding that all players become mathematicians doesn't seem like a particularly realistic approach to gathering that feedback. At least to me. This forum may represent a large portion of the game's population these days, and it's a pretty cold place for a newer player to come to for information.

Since the change in management, I have been consistently impressed with the level of developer involvement in the community of this game. While I don't always agree, and am often a churlish ******* about it, (I'm kind of confrontational in real life), I have always respected that the design team of this game tries to do what they can to deliver what the players ask for. And if they can't, I love that they just say "dude, I have no idea and I don't think so", instead of some ridiculous spun answer.

Not sure where you decided I ever thought that was a bad idea.

So, in response, I have to say I don't think you were thinking about my post when you responded to it, as much of this doesn't have much to do with it. It raised some interesting points on the issue of the mindset I was addressing, and was very illuminating. For that I thank you.

Wanted to speak to this really quick while I have time.

It's interesting to me that the people playing CoH seem to have decided that the burden of design efficacy falls squarely on the playerbase instead of the development team.
To this I say, "absolutely not".

I am the subscriber, the player, the consumer, the customer. It is my responsibility to look at what I have bought and say "yay", or "nay". It is NOT my responsibility to dissect that product and determine every possible factor that contributes to it's failure.

That is the job of the development team.

I will never, ever post a spreadsheet or run numbers for the sake of proving a point to a fellow subscriber to an online video game. I am not the developer. I am the subscriber. My role is to evaluate, not to code and test.

This assumption that unless we all memorize charts, tables, and spreadsheets our experience is invalid is incredible to me. Since I (and many other players) refuse to do so, we are somehow not permitted to have or voice an opinion regarding our experience with the game? Nonsense. The only measuring stick that should matter is personal enjoyment.

Is it fun? If the answer is not yes, then stop playing.

I applaud the efforts of the forum goers that invest their efforts in the crunchier side of the game, but I do not accept that it's the responsibility of the player to do so.

So, Princess, if you're waiting for people to quantify their responses regarding a subjective experience on a video game, keep waiting.

No one owes you that.

Couldn't agree more Jabby. This about sums it up exactly.

Kind of a trend lately that people are afraid to post the builds they rock with, for fear of getting the sets nerfed.

Here your experience and mine differs. To me Khelds have never actually performed well enough to put them on par with a conventional AT, while the VEAT's not only work as advertised out of the box, they do so without sacrificing anything essential. They are still viable and intuitive and fun. To me, khelds are the opposite of that. They don't work as advertised, they aren't intuitive to play, and to me that pretty much robs me of any fun I could have with them.

While an argument could be made that because khelds existed before IO's that the addition of IO's to the game isn't what makes them viable. I could not disagree more. I remember a period of months, waiting for CoV to go live, where I was on pretty much daily on virtue with my tank, and ran into khelds so rarely that I usually sent them a tell to the effect of "wow, you have balls. Good luck dude". More often than not, I got back a message to the tune of "yeah, just experimenting, don't try this at home".

So of course your mileage will vary. I believe that khelds really are screwed as an AT in general, and without IO set bonuses to bolster them, they are avoided because of their long list of drawbacks and counterintuitive play. While I think having a HEAT is a fantastic idea, I think that HEAT should probably play a little more like the other AT's.

So like I said, matter of personal experience and choice. When I'm making teams, I don't look for khelds as a general rule. If I can find ANY other AT to fill that slot with, I'll take them. Why? Partly because I haven't had particularly shining experiences with kheld players in the past year or so, and generally find them to be a hassle that I end up having to work around. I don't like having to concentrate my healing on the crazy crab person with delusions of tankerhood when I've got other folks that need my attention.

I also don't think khelds really stack up. I find them, to this day (barring massive IO slotting) lackluster and deficient in a normal team setting.Of course, in the right hands (the ones with evidently limitless funds), they are unstoppable juggernauts, but I have only once had the pleasure of running across such a player. Fun to watch, really. But he was hardly representative of the khelds I've encountered recently.

So, all told, so far as I am concerned, khelds are what I add to a team when I can't find anything else to fill with. Other than that, I think they need a serious looking at. There has to be something that can be done to put them on par with other AT's.

Mmm, I think it does, really. Prior to the addition of IO's you really never saw khelds with the exception of the few hardcore players determined to make them work despite their many, many shortcomings. After the IO's hit and something could actually be done to make them viable as AT's, it really picked up for them. It depends on perspective and personal experience I suppose.

I personally deleted my WS around 40ish, as I found the AT lackluster and more effort than it was worth compared to any other AT I had played (with the exception of defenders, which I just never got the hang of. Kind of wish I had, as I've seen some pretty spectacular ones). These days, if I decided to transfer a few billion inf over to blueside and build a kheld properly I'm sure I would be impressed.

I hated khelds until I understood what they're for. (at least as far as I'm concerned) Blueside they ARE the endgame timesink. Their what you continue to put effort into until you're satisfied with the result once you've done everything else. And in that capacity I think they're a pretty good idea. Redside could use something like that. I wouldn't say scrap their VEAT's, as in my experience they are far and away a hell of a lot more fun than just about anything else I've played. But I would say Redside can certainly use an endgame Erector Set AT like khelds to concentrate on putting together over the course of a few months.

Dead on. Mine isn't quite to fourty yet and I CAN'T STOP PLAYING HIM. Soooo much fun.

In my experience with HEAT's, it all comes down to the same thing as the Energy Armor set for brutes.

On their own, you are pretty dead on. HEAT's are absolute failure. This is because they are anemic in every way. Second rate blaster/troller/scrapper. Just like /Energy Armor.

Thing is, I believe they are designed this way on purpose. There is really no AT that can benefit from as many different IO set bonus combinations and use them to shine as drastically as a PB, WS or any character with the Energy Defense/Armor set.

I think they were designed to be utter crap until you have the eight or nine billion infamy to pump into them to make them shine. And they DO shine, holy god. But unlike the VEAT's which were designed to function as advertised out of the box, I look at HEAT's as a character you make when you KNOW you are going to invest in them as a project.

Just read the guides on the Kheld forums. Pretty much every guide there cites only uniques and purps and rate Hami O's in their builds. There's a reason for that. Without them, Khelds fail. With them, Khelds are able to really blow pretty much everything else out of the water, or at least give them a pretty good run for their money.

I think that much comes down to personal choice. This is my second account. If I still had my first, I think I wouldn't have deleted the 43 WS I had on it due to total failure. Understanding now that they are designed to be inf sinks and can take advantage of that like no other AT can, I would probably have kept him around. These days, I don't really touch blueside anymore, so it's not that big an issue.

If you have limitless inf available and are tired of the toons you've been playing, I say give them a whirl. You'll be amazed at how they can blossom.

If you don't... Don't touch them or you're setting yourself up for a complete disappointment.

Thanks for that info Babs. I wish there was something that could be done for it, but I appreciate that you don't really have any realistic options.

I have to agree. While I would like to have a few tweaks here and there to improve some seriously underperforming powers, by and large blasters are pretty well off. I have a great time with mine.

Liar. You actually called me a liar because my experience is different from your own, as is my opinion. Which one of us is morally questionable again?

As for your claims...

Let's see. I have played the same level fifty character every day, very nearly for about three hours since around early to mid may. I don't know if the development team would be able to verify something like that, but I wish they would.
Since that time, I have gotten one purple drop. One. I don't know if there's a record of that somewhere on the server, but I would love it if they could verify that as well.
Now, the character is about two and a half years old, and used to be played every other day or so. He runs in level fifty missions often for badging purposes and because there are arcs that I like to do over again. I enjoy the patron arcs, and do any task forces that come my way.
In all that time, like I've earlier stated, I have gotten one purple drop. Which was fairly recent, a little less than a month ago I think.

So...

Since my experience is different from yours, and my opinion different from yours, I MUST be lying.

Yeah.... no....

And since I actually play instead of farm, the fault must lie with me, not with the design...

Yeah... no...

Since I've actually only ever received one purple drop, I must be killing the mobs wrong... No wait, I must be playing the game wrong... No wait... I must be... lying?

Yeah... no...

Since I find that in my experience this manner of dropping recipes is not working, and am irritated about it, I must be... "one of those OTHER people that aren't like you".

Yeah... no.

You claim that "people like you" (and how interesting is that) are proof of a thing. Well then, "people like me" must be proof of something else. I don't mind working to achieve a thing. At all, and kind of prefer it actually. I am certainly not one of "the people like them" that want something for nothing. I've been playing a dom with an (until recently) gimped primary for nearly three years. Something for nothing is not on my list of necessaries.

Regardless of what you think based on a post on an internet game forum board that you chose to take as a personal attack, I am not what you seem to think.
But this game is set up in a manner that no other game is, and trying to have the same kinds of raid rule drop tables as these other games doesn't work very well. These new changes don't seem to have changed anything for me, certainly. So, while the OP and yourself and "people like you" are raking in the effortless rewards, sniping at "people like them" that also play and wonder what all the fuss is about, it is clear that there is a breakdown between your collective experience and mine.

So, I'll just leave this with "people like you" and your militant charm on one side of the equation, and "people not like you" on another, and we'll see what happens as things move forward.

What's also interesting to me is the assumption that I am "whining" because I'm not rolling in infamy/influence. I don't recall ever stating anything of the kind, and am actually doing quite well in the course of normal gameplay. My statement wasn't even related to game currency, just the state of affairs on how it is being managed or not managed.

And here we have the correct evaluation of the situation. Of course this thread of filled with people cheering on the OP, who claims that anyone not spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours farming minions in repeatable missions doesn't (and I can't believe they actually used this word,) "deserve" to receive the content they paid for. And yet, those three boxing multiple accounts and sweep clearing mission after mission to gank the system and harvest these purps somehow does.

That isn't about working hard for what you want. There is nothing hard about this game, there is nothing hard about farming a mission. It's a game, and a time sink designed to mask the complete lack of high end content that really shouldn't ever have been an issue in the first place.

The current system of risk vs reward pretty much rewards only the farmers, leaving the actual player at the mercy of self important and self congratulating parasites who control the ridiculous anonymous market system. It amuses me when I hear these persons refer to this game's player base as "whining casuals". This is a casual game. That isn't really negotiable, it is a casual game by design. Those that make an unhealthy practice of spending hours and hours on end ganking the system are not the people this game is aimed at. You're welcome here of course. Everyone is, but don't presume that people that don't pervert the design of the game are somehow 'less' than you.

LOL don't bother. You've been around here long enough to know that if you don't tow the party line 100% on these forums you are "crying" or a "troll".

Just accept that you have an opinion, and a question that you would like input on without rancor. Also accept that you are entitled to both, just not here.

I personally agree with you completely. I LOVE my VEAT's Oh GAHD do I love them. But I agree that their diecast mass produced storyline is miles from the truly epic Kheldian storyline... There was a LOT that could have been done there and never was. Years of content that could have been written...

Same as the Khelds I guess. Introduced and then forgotten. If I were you I would do what I have done. My VEAT is Epic because I MADE him epic. A background and story that are great in scope and history.

Other than that, can't really tell you anything you don't already know.

You're right about honey and vineger, of course. But I am so very tired of being "trolled"' when I raise any kind of honest concern or have actual issues with a lot of the direction things have gone with the powers and powersets.

Thanks for the reminder.


And Hart, we actually went through that process for what had to be about a two and a half dozed times. It doesn't matter how many times you do it, he's still invulnerable at 50%. I had no idea this a "required AT" SF. No wonder I've only seen the people make an effort to do it once.
I won't be trying this again. What happens if (as DID happen in our case) two of your members DC at the last moment and are unable to get back? It just feels like wasn't thought through very well.
But what do I know. Clearly not much, or I wouldn't be posting here.

Thanks again for your help folks. I appreciate it.