JuliusSeizure

I totally missed the part about being externally damage capped.

Boost range is amazing if you have even one cone-chaped TAoE attack. Then there's the ability to have a full attack sequence at snipe range.

Put it into PSW for sure. If you have any global recharge, then PSW will allow you to run this proc more often than it would check in Hotfeet. Toggles check once every 10 seconds, while an attack will check every click. A high recharge build could easily hover around 5-6 seconds of recharge for PSW.

That said, if you don't have much recharge in the build, the larger AoE of Hot Feet might actually make it a better option. I would socket it into Hot Feet if you have greater than 9-10 seconds of recharge on PSW.

Do you honestly think that Dual Pistols is gimped, or is that just hyperbole to elicit a response? The breadth of secondary effects we receive through Swap Ammo means that you can:

• Stack -damage with other debuffs, or with resistance. In fact, -damage functions like resistance.
• Stack -recharge and slow with other debuffs.
• Stack holds with other abilites.
• Stak stuns with other abilities.
• Stack -resistance with other debuffs.

Dual Pistols works best with Corruptors and Defenders that can employ Swap Ammo to layer greater values of a specific debuff on opponents-- they also receive better values than Blasters do.

It seems that a lot of the Dual Pistols complaints stem from what I call "Willpower Syndrome," for if a new set doesn't obliterate every previous set in raw performance, either damage or survivability, then it's clearly gimped. People complained about Shield Defense for months until the realized how (over)powered it was with heavy IO investment. Now they're cool with it. I'm glad that Dual Pistols isn't blatantly overpowered relative to previous abilities. We have enough power creep in this game as is.

Dual Pistols works. It offers the second best base accuracy of any set, and has a powerful single-target attack with 1.4 base accuracy. It offers good DPE, and has a huge spectrum of secondary effects that indeed provide significant game play value-- perhaps being better suited for buffing/debuffing classes. It also happens to provide the most utility while being lower-middle of the pack in raw damage. And check out those PvP numbers...

Like what? Obliteration, Mako's, Touch of Death, Scirocco's, and Eradication all offer the same damage and proc rate. They also cost more and are unable to be socketed across the board. Perfect Zinger is a Taunt set, so it can go into every single skill that Claws has-- whether it's melee, ranged, PBAoE, TAoE or Taunt. That's quite useful, and it does this at a fraction of the cost.

This is a great proc, arguably the best available from the regular sets that are neither purple nor PvP. It's cheap; it offers exotic damage; it can be had at low levels; it really can't be beat by anything else within reason. Any primary skill that does damage for Brutes can take this set, as can any damage aura as well as Taunt.

This tier of procs fires at a 20% rate and does 72 points of damage at level 50. This means that the Perfect Zinger proc is adding an average of 14.4 points of damage to any attack other than auras. Sciroccos, Mako's, ToD, Obliteration, et al are all the same as well, as far as damage goes.

Now, if you were to place the proc into a skill like Strike, you would effectively be adding 28% enhanced damage that completely ignores the ED cap (14.4/51.72). Your proc damage is of an exotic type, and it comes in units of 72, effectively increasing the skill's burst damage as a critical strike would for other ATs. This bring up several clues on how to socket it.

• 1- Procs work best in fast animating, fast recharging, low to moderate damage attacks that are cycled often.
• 2- Procs add an average of 14.4 points of damage. Your Brute can actually sacrifice 28% enhanced damage from Strike to average the same total output, but still receive increased burst damage and split damage types. Ideally, you would ED cap at 95% enhanced damage and add the proc on top, effectively granting 123% enhanced damage to this skill.
• 3- In damage auras, the proc only checks once every 10 seconds, and is generally not worth being socketed.

I prefer to have one proc socketed in every attack below Superior damage, and two if possible. Having 5 parts of a purple set, one of them the purple proc, and a Perfect Zinger is one of my ideal formats on Brutes.

I have mine set up like that. It's a great skill base (after the 5' to 7' change), but is incredibly powerful with those two procs. I believe that 3/4ths of the damage from SM benefits from the -resist proc when it fires, so the proc isn't just adding to future damage in this skill.

I agree that there was very useful information in this thread. But when people surreptitiously claim that the numbers denote the need for AT buffs/nerfs, and that debate rages for the majority of the thread, then it has become a misguided referendum. And unfortunately all of that baggage is equally elevated through the sticky. I know exactly what Bill Z intended with his hard work, but I also just read a thread that was taken another direction for the majority of its pages.

While on this tangent, I've always viewed the Melee ATs in a gradient as such:


Tank <> Brute <> Scrapper <> Stalker


At one end you have survivability and agro management. At the other end you have burst damage. There is a clean progression of such capability in both directions when the melee ATs are viewed like this, survivability and burst damage being inversely proportional. In the middle you have the DPS classes, the Scrapper and the Brute. I don't think it should be a shock that the two ATs have similar DPS, as was shown by Bill Z. I'm entirely positive that the Brute archetype was designed to have very similar sustained DPS to that of the Scrapper.

This debate about DPS and AT balance completely ignores one end of this spectrum-- and that's burst damage. It's pretty clear, to me at least, that the melee ATs are splayed as a division between burst damage and survivability. Brutes and Scrappers are hybrids that emphasize DPS but take attributes from the two bookends; higher survivability and auto-taunt for Brutes, criticals and burst damage for Scrappers.

When soloing AVs and Pylons, all that matters is DPS and survivability, and that's what this thread largely came down to-- a debate about whether these two attributes were balanced between the Brute and Scrapper. Well, they aren't, and the shouldn't be.

The DPS ATs should offer similar DPS, and they clearly do from both personal play experience and through Bill Z's numerical analysis. Beyond this general balance of sustained DPS, it's not fair to simply value attributes that are used for soloing AVs and Pylons. Burst damage and the ability to receive greater benefit from proportional +damage have value and also differentiate play mechanics.

When Going Rogue is released, I would argue that the template that distinguishes the 4 melee ATs is largely balanced, and that the Scrapper-Brute debate is moot. (I do feel that Tanks need some mechanic to differentiate them from Brutes-- and have been drafting ideas.) However, the fact that burst damage is often so undervalued might be a design flaw with the game. We'll see what GR and the end-game content has to offer in the way of challenging opponents that need quick elimination. One suggestion would be to have LTs and Bosses charge devastating attacks, and that the process of this charging is clearly animated/made obvious to players. In such a situation, burst damage would be exceedingly valuable. But I digress...

The fire round are tricky, as they can tick not at all or up to the full amount possible. In the long run, the Fire DoT will really add up.

The -damage in isolation is a nice perk, but it really starts to become noticeable when you stack the debuff from multiple sources-- whether that's from other players or a debuff primary/secondary. AVs also don't resist the -damage like the do other debuffs, so this can be pretty useful against them when multiple debuffs are layered.

Considering that the best IO bonuses generally come at tiers 4 and 5, not having to add 3-5 sockets here will let other skills achieve increased benefits. You aren't making a whole lot of sense with these arguments IMO.

I would again say yes, Swap Amo is incredibly expansive and has significant benefits, one of them being no need for sockets.

And no, it is not expensive.

Ummm, the abilities it grants without having to be socketed is itself a benefit. Have you never had a build that was socket-hungry at level 50?

I agree completely. Heck, the set has a HUGE base accuracy bonus as well, scond only to Archery. I wonder if the OP even was aware of that.

I wouldn't list it for more than the level 50s. The only advantage of lower level procs is that you can use them sooner. Level 41 isn't that much sooner that level 47, so don't expect it to sell for that much more (generally). If it were closer to level 30, I could see you making a significant premium.

I agree-- it's not a loss for Scrappers. It's just something that differs between the sets and should be considered. My point is that Fire Melee was not a clean port to Scrappers as it used the Brute version. Each set, in isolation and ignoring AT modifiers, does either AoE or ST damage better than its counterpart. When you add the AT modifiers, this creates a situation where the Scrapper is better at ST damage than it would be for a cleanly ported set, while the Tank is better at AoE damage than it would have been if both sets were equal.