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Posts
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Joined
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Nice build, but you have 4 purple sets. Gratz to you having them but I'll never see that.
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Is there a reason why your data chunk causes my mid's to throw .net errors?
its weird it loads up that its a blaster, but scrapper in drop down. shows Broadsword powerset but is the Archery set etc. very wierd.
Now onto your build. you really don't slot up your first 2 attack until the 40s? -
Quote:
However, even without hasten, I do have enough global recharge for FU, Slash, Focus, Swipe, repeat which is what I run now.
So for me, hasten has no worth.
What about AoEs? With or without it, I can cycle FU, Spin, Shockwave, repeat.
So, yes, there ARE cases where hasten is a wasted pick.
This and QFT.
I just hit 80% global recharge the other day. My AoE attack is Focus, Evis, Fu, Spin, repeat. I like it. (I have a chance for BU in Focus, thats why I use it) -
Quote:rofl. good one.Skipping Dodge and Lucky would be like going to a job interview without your pants.
Sure you are adequately covered in shirt, tie, vest, jacket, socks and shoes but you still won't get the job done.
The problem with going SS is you need to take flurry or hasten. flurry sucks. Hasten is great but I don't have a need for it on my claws/SR, so why even dip into that pool?
Ask yourself this, "Why do all the SR builds include Dodge and Lucky? There must be a reason.
This is like someone taking jumpkick to get to SJ. Sure it may look funny. and ya its an attack, but really?!! I cringe every time I see someone waste a powerpick that could actually be helpful in buffing defense and having a spot to put really nifty IOs -
If you are only keeping aid self single slotted, I'd drop it. its not going to help you much.
I six slotted Aid Self on my claws/SR. 5xdoctored wounds and one level 50 interrupt. I heal about 500ish. but if I am surrounded I will still get interrupted at times. I'd drop it and just rely on greens. -
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+2/8. its the most effiecient for farming tickets in AE. I don't even finish the arc, once I hit about 1000 tickets I find the glowie and the bonus bumps me past the cap and I leave.
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Quote:Its not mean. Its not diplomatic either but hey, no pain no foul.Yeah, because an extra 8% regen is sooo much more noticeable than an extra slot for run speed in quickness. If you're going to suggest he remove that slot for more useful purposes, I'd only do that for an extra defense or recharge boost or something. In the long run, 8% regen really isn't noticeable... I'd probably put it in something like Quickness for the sake of fun. Running around maps super-fast is super-fun. Unless there's something he wants to move around, and needs that slot for a better set bonus.
Don't mean to sound mean, sorry if I come across like that
So its subjective. I feel 8% more regen is more important then running a little bit faster. you prefer to run faster. to each his own. But I wasn't telling him put it in brawl. just pointed out I found a spot for one slot. But is there a place to put a slot that would be better then in quickness? I am sure there is. -
Notice I put one in brawl, which sounds stupid, (it may be) but I am getting +8% Regen out of it.
I am sitting at 21.xx hp/sec right now. Nothing to scoff at. -
I don't like the idea of extra slots in quickness. Running a little faster when you are plenty fast enough isn't enough to lose a whole slot in. That slot could be used in so many other areas that will bring more then +run to the table.
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I like the predator concept idea!!! makes me jealous. On Pinnacle there is an Alien concept scrapper running around, looks nice as well.
Remeber that stealth suppresses to half its value while in combat. So if you are going to just achieve softcap with full stealth you will be under in actual combat. -
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Quote:If you are not after the ToD +melee def, I'd drop the ToD proc and slo tin the mako 4 part.I'd put Touch of Death in the heavy hitter if it will provide enough recharge. A high damage attack will benefot more from the extra 10% damage... but only if the lower recharge doesn't make you change to a less effective attack chain.
Actually, I'd put Touch of Death in both if possible and get my Ranged defense elsewhere... not having ED capped damage on a high DPA attack is annoying. -
Thanks, I had some help tweaking it on this board. I don't like the healing pool either, in fact I have only popped the self heal once in the last 2 weeks. But they do make a good set mule powers. I get regen from the aid other and recharge with a 5 slot doctored.
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I don't like the KB in Shockwave. I work too hard to get the group to surround me so I can spin/evis. last thing I want is to have everyone go flying everywhere.
It is good mitigation though, get them away for enough time to trigger heal self, but I haven't had a problem with that in months.
Everyone has seen this at least twice. Here is my claws/SR. softcapped in all 3 with decent regen and recharge.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Lyclownthrope: Level 50 Science Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), Mako-Dam%(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(5), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def(25)
Level 2: Slash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Achilles-ResDeb%(39)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(7), S'dpty-Def(11), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(29)
Level 6: Spin -- M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(13), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), RechRdx-I(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Heal(A), RgnTis-Regen+(36), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Mrcl-Rcvry+(42), Numna-Heal(48)
Level 16: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27)
Level 18: Focus -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(23), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(40)
Level 22: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Agile -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(27), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(46), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 32: Eviscerate -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 35: Evasion -- Krma-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(36), S'dpty-Def(36)
Level 38: Aid Other -- Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Aid Self -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(42), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(42), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(43), IntRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(45), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(45), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(45), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 49: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def(50), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1410;711;1422;HEX;| |78DAA5934B53D35014C76FDA94007D53DAF22EEF82B529DDF998D185E888B6505BC| |48D8A255C68A493769A2AE046D4AD2B37F818D77E06C7955F43FD1C6E14EA795CEA| |B83653FE3F72EEFF9C7BEE49523C580E0871745568A16BF5AAEB6E56AC56B5D9942| |DA362D9D2B164B07068D51BFB4EBBD66A34A52184183CB36C16655D4A13F2F6DD54| |37B82C77A4E34AB3F204EFCA72A72E0FA41B5D716AB2259DB679F64FA0D468D4CD1| |B76DB91AECB3705596DDACE6E906E8A72DBB66C4706956FB7D686B5D8F5A66D99F7| |C0D870368B55B72D5B8743D0D422FCD9D81D5D1D9F7804C80B4F95A06F117AB7091| |37B84298B50C42C8DB2BC22A291DD03488BFE5381181AA4E06343D9A0BAF64FF51E| |AE1EE27A43BCC9FC578F1031B10A595E55DDAB53D99E5EAECE9B8CF1267BE0F3A9E| |ABE1677FB8C10784A88EC13660FB8FA21C107590657174696422508F57121D197A1| |501D427E4DA3DA7EEE3CC09D87B8F308779E607B960F604056906BEBC115EA75E60| |A605CA43768208BB72898BB4B7777C01E66BB27CC131B881246E204070C5175C2E8| |311D7AE02D21F18E30F981F19E30F5898700593135BFD8B10743836F1893644833C| |AE08BAB49C4791209082539A42579E6133EC21AAC0CAB5E87F9A18C28C304A556C0| |30AA5247B9FD313E53D2C00970EAF8376A24FB8390FB4E688021A58E99FA45A1C9D| |F84D913C62961BE43480B2F621DB2A65547D33F05EE31C32FC60CBF26E36098E3B2| |DA5C995AC9AD1352B0B2A0365C58E3275364DC269C5B651418A374420DB2329CA56| |79ED3CAF923C60BC64B42F615C10B7653BD556692DE021D424BEAC92CF17793E721| |E67954799EEC98DEFD2A3571938E36B54228FC5D811F5CA2A477BF31A15124A577B| |FCEFFBA3E07CEF6EA2BF783AEA394503650EEA33C4079885245D942B1503A5FBAD9| |E10BD8D045944B2897515EA3C9F083F85102284194104A182582124349A08CA07C4| |4E9FC01530CF747| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Personally, I don't understand why you want evis and shockwave, unless its for concept. If you were going to cycle through all of your attacks, you lose DPS in the long run.
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Quote:This is true, and in my final build I would like to see it happen, but right now they are just too darn expensive. But don't forget all my dark -acc secondary effects, even with smashing haymakers I am pretty much at cap.Not an invuln player, but I see you have those smashing haymaker sets which should be replaced with the kinetic combat for the same type of bonuses only bigger.
I did find out the current build is too much stam to support. had to rearrange and dropped shadow punch for Dark Consumption.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Morganti: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(7), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), ImpArm-ResDam(11), ResDam-I(13), ResDam-I(31)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- RechRdx-I(A), Oblit-Dmg(13), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(15), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(15), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(9), HO:Golgi(9), HO:Golgi(19), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(33), Dct'dW-Heal(39), Dct'dW-Rchg(40), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(23), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(34)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(40)
Level 24: Dark Consumption -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(25), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 28: Invincibility -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(46), GftotA-Def(46), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 30: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResDam(40)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(37), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(37), GftotA-Def(42)
Level 38: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Weave -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(43), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(43), GftotA-Def(43)
Level 44: Super Speed -- Clrty-RunSpd(A), Clrty-Stlth(45)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(48), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(50), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1409;703;1406;HEX;| |78DAA553CB52135110BD930CE44142C22BBCF306121E03D9A1A028A25528D1402C5| |72A35E015524E0DA9495070E507E8C68D2B3FC4F28FD43F5089DD7D26A9B25C3A95| |9C73A7EFE9C774DF5BBDD88929F56E4B1983771CBBD53AAC1F7B76B3A9BDD043BB7| |DEED94EB87AE69DD86EBB11524A4D76770FABDAD1DADAB1BD5758667B3B3BFAA576| |5BDADA755F9F3BAEF6ECA386D3685F0EEDBAA7DAD36EDBEA2E62B5B333C7BAD768B| |BBAD58AFB2F27A7ED867B1295B77A53EB1750ED69BB49F6E1BBCDC6B1B5EDD86FF5| |61D56EB5B57739416595E9EF717DF2744C5523CAABC0BE907900AA0B4597882A6A8| |3E586C8832A4D8B05D59F0765848673429BA433A0338D715ACCAA405176A225A1D8| |B2C44B835A240FA28ABE2032C57E0698067F817E0B25AF84CA1DA17EF2EA4312D55| |712AF733285FC40A14D2253A97097D799836A781DEFA9AAC12E1347E269905B049E| |2AD2A147DD20CB801F6BE08168937B425978CE3F125AA8099551779EBCE2282A108| |7290D5A066D9120E1B73081DEA5D0C919B4308716864837E47FDDD07D3185C934E2| |BB8E7C921E8C7E046525760E9422DD1874C69829AE0B61A137B4332E03EC04C73F8| |8EBC4B7008F67EABB50FA87D005E926A133273189294C620693C86104CB18C86D92| |4F1B083B7DA538D34A4012AE20EF0AAA08926ED66FCE2CCE43760EF5E1585C9220E| |3F73C83E398C5712CE03816701C8BFB92B75817DA26AFBCDF97FCA84CA390142A22| |6F1955DC21DD1CA207E6308DF9BFC82441C90F54C2772CE23B16116811810AA45BF| |21BBC14462722423769C7F2235898EE2AE6B98A21AF62C8B748B7E6EBD6A0AB4050| |81A002AF19B3773FE9C7C772EF1F4BCDF4EF24590CB164CCDE35FDAFE74BAC9B2B7| |210257CCC506378C2F094E119C373069BE188E198A1F3B5E79D58E782AE315C67D8| |6078CFA210DFB0018618439C619021C19064186148314C317C66E8FC010481F592| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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with the current def bonuses I almost softcap def on all damage 40 - 44, as long as I have 10 mobs around me.
I changed out aegis alltogether but still have it at 36%.
Explain why you say I am overslotted for res/def. Not seeing why that is the case. -
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Morganti: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(7), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 2: Shadow Punch -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(11), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), RechRdx-I(13), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(15), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(17), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(9), HO:Golgi(9), HO:Golgi(19), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(23), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Aegis-ResDam(31), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(34)
Level 12: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(33), Dct'dW-Heal(39), Dct'dW-Rchg(40), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(40)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 28: Invincibility -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(46), GftotA-Def(46), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 30: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(40), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(45)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(34), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(36), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(37), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(37), GftotA-Def(42)
Level 38: Unstoppable -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Weave -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(43), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(43), GftotA-Def(43)
Level 44: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(48), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(50), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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We all figured ElA was going to be crazy expensive. Oh well.
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Here is the thread I started and went through a ton of iterations because I was never happy with the outcome.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=191536 -