Simple...
Take Dodge and Lucky.
Agreed. As I recently learned, take 'em all...you can live without the tier 9 though...
Why though?
IIRC the max amount of resist you get from em all is 30%, which is nothin to turn your nose up at of course but i dont plan on spending that much time with with the majority of my health bar gone...And the second i pop a green the resists might as well not exist.
It dosnt seem worth it IMO but im lookin for others opinions to help me decide.
They both accumulate to 13.84% defence debuff resistance. I woudn't pass that up.
I'm telling you...take them.
Save yourself and someone else the trouble of going over the reasons why they're "un-skippable" and just take them.
The difference between soft capped SR vs Ice/EA/SD is going to be the DDR built into SR. Taking and slotting your passives will help ensure that when the time comes you do get hit a few times with defense debuffs, you won't succumb to a cascading failure, where you defense gets lowered and you start getting hit more and your defense goes even lower, and then you die. Other than that SR is extremely cheap to soft cap where other secondaries will cost more.
You'll can play with out the passives, but you will considerably stronger with them.
Poisonous Ice 50 Ice/Rad
Icy Jax 50 Ice/SS
Jaxon Penn 50 Shield/Mace
Cpt Clax 50 Thugs/Dark
Lady BlackIce 50 Dark/Cold
Lady Black Ice 50 Dark/Ice
Bella Jax 50 Storm/Sonic
Operative Jax 50 SoA
Level 50 Trick Arrow Alts
TA/A-Plant/TA-Bots/TA
Level 50 Claws Scrappers
SR-Regen-DA-Invul-WP-FA
Together the passives add up to 60% resistance to all damage when damage is takin.
You WILL get hit with a defense based set. In my experience that hit will sometimes take a sizeable chunk of my health with it. This is when your passives kick in. That next hit thats gonna come in will be resisted by up to 60% (depending on your health lvl), saving your bacon.
Not takin dodge/lucky will drop that resistance bonus to only 20% max.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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That means different things for different people...|
Originally Posted by Vitality
"un-skippable"
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Ive seen vet players that play emps that only have the RA's and the AoE heal, that play PB's without any of the forms, who dont take taunt on tanks and so on...
Why would you consider it "un-skippable" ?
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| They both accumulate to 13.84% defence debuff resistance. I woudn't pass that up. |
Also Grant Cover from SD adds 13% DDR and alot of people dont take that power.
This isnt an attack, im just tryin to figure out why yous think they're so important.
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The main reason you take them is not because of the resistance. Personally I think the scaling resistance is crap because if I am going to get hit then it will take health from me regardless. The reason you take the passives is for teh defense debuff resistance which with all of the powers, toggles included gets you to 97% defense resistance and 68% without.|
Originally Posted by Bud
Why though?
IIRC the max amount of resist you get from em all is 30%, which is nothin to turn your nose up at of course but i dont plan on spending that much time with with the majority of my health bar gone...And the second i pop a green the resists might as well not exist. It dosnt seem worth it IMO but im lookin for others opinions to help me decide. |
The other reason I took them is because I have 2 Luck of Gamblers in them to give me the +regen for my Scrapper, but that only matters if you plan on using IO sets eventually.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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I put it in quotations to show that I think of them as un-skippable. Others may not but I doubt it.|
Originally Posted by Bud
That means different things for different people...
Ive seen vet players that play emps that only have the RA's and the AoE heal, that play PB's without any of the forms, who dont take taunt on tanks and so on... Why would you consider it "un-skippable" ? |
Others have posted the reasons why I think they are un-skippable.
They are passive...
They add +defense...
They add scaling resistance...
They add DEFENSE DEBUFF RESISTANCE.
The biggie is that they give defense debuff resistance. With all 3 toggles and passives slotted for the max defense, you are at 96.5% defense debuff resistance. Without dodge and lucky, you are only at 75.1%. The 95% defense debuff resistance is one of the reasons SR works so well at the softcap - not only are you softcapped, you're effectively immune to cascading defense failure. At only 75%? Not so much.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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What lot are you talking about? I know plenty of people that take SD to act as a mule or specifically for the defense debuff resistance. 13% is a lot especially if you fight groups like Praetorian Clockwork, Ninjas, Sky Raiders, etc who all debuff defense resistance fast.
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Originally Posted by Bud
13% DDR is virtually nothing when theres 72% still there...
Also Grant Cover from SD adds 13% DDR and alot of people dont take that power. This isnt an attack, im just tryin to figure out why yous think they're so important. |
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
They don't cost endurance and can't be suppressed or detoggled
They add DDR
They add scaling resists
They are good mules for defense set IOs (I know you already have 5 LotG 7.5s in your build; this doesn't change the fact that they are really convenient places to put those)
~8.5 defense when fully slotted is really hard to ignore
I can't say they are unskippable. I suppose you can skip them, if you have enough money and power choices to throw at the problem and are willing to suffer the lower DDR and scaling resists, neither which is likely to make or break a build on its own. For what it's worth, I don't think 73% vs 95% DDR will make a large difference except against very heavy defense debuffing foes (Antimatter robots, Cimerorans et al). I will say that you really need to be 100% sure of what you are doing and that it is extremely unlikely that skipping them will make your build better in any way.
[edit] Originally I had a note here complaining about your endurance consumption in the build without passives. 
Then I realized your SS was toggled on. I still think it is a bit high, and that you are almost certainly better off skipping Tough/Weave instead for the passives.
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Considering the significant difference of the chance to be hit from 30'ish-45'ish defence, the 13.84% DDR is rather valuable.
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Originally Posted by Bud
That means different things for different people...
Ive seen vet players that play emps that only have the RA's and the AoE heal, that play PB's without any of the forms, who dont take taunt on tanks and so on... Why would you consider it "un-skippable" ? 13% DDR is virtually nothing when theres 72% still there... Also Grant Cover from SD adds 13% DDR and alot of people dont take that power. This isnt an attack, im just tryin to figure out why yous think they're so important. |
My build does not have lucky, however since you are asking the only power you can skip in SR is Elude. Everyone that has replied speaks the truth ( Im a rebel lol ) take them both.
Scataloni Volt
Scataloni
Scataloni Tank
Scataloni Arrow
Rad Scataloni
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With 1 passive at 25% health you will have 11.66% DR to all but toxic and psi.|
They are passive... They add +defense... They add scaling resistance... They add DEFENSE DEBUFF RESISTANCE. |
With all 3 passives at 25% health you'll have 35% DR to all but toxic and psi.
The DDR in the passives is enhanceable. That's 10.8% DDR that you will be missing out on PER passive.
Cimerorans are a bad day to most defense sets. SR users sitting at the DDR cap laugh at them. Those that aren't at the DDR cap are too busy dying to laugh.
Be well, people of CoH.
Um. Raptor packs are cheap. If you do the 5 and 11 safeguards, you won't need to take a trip to Shadow Shard 'til around level 30 to pick up a new one for dirt cheap (10k influence I think?).
Is it so bad to have a Super Speed build with the 2 passives and just use temp packs whenever in need of vertical movement? I bind Raptor pack to one of my extra mouse buttons so it's always there whenever I find myself in an unexpected (likely Super Speed-induced) dead drop.
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Amen to that one.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Cimerorans are a bad day to most defense sets. SR users sitting at the DDR cap laugh at them. Those that aren't at the DDR cap are too busy dying to laugh.
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"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Hi Bud.
I think you really like your idea, and you think it doable, so I say do it.
If you decide you are not happy with it that is what respecs are for.
If you take Dodge and Lucky only because everyone here is telling you to, you will always be wondering what the toon would be like had you done what you wanted to.
Remember the Strong And Pretty thread where Mr Playschool bucked public opinion, made a Warmace/Energy Brute, before the buffs, and had a great time with it Even drew pics of it's adventures 
It's your toon, your skills, your ideas.
Who knows, if you succeed at it, people might rub their chins, wrinkle their brows, and go hmmmm, and before you know it you have started a fad
Good luck with it.
Lisa.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
There's quite a difference between "do what you feel is fun" and "do what will reduce your mitigation."
The OP asked a mitigation question. That's in the realm of numbers, not fun. (Although some of us have fun with the numbers, too.)
Should every player do whatever they want with their bulds? Absolutely! I'll never use aid self on melee characters regardless of whether that would increase my mitigation.
However, it seemed to me that the question being asked is whether skipping the passives will hurt the build. That answer is a resounding yes.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Your end rec - end drain of attack chain + toggles = scare me |
Originally Posted by Bud
Both are soft-capped and both have perma-hasten.
Any and all thoughts are appreciated. Thx. |
I like the passives, it's extra def, that's cheap, no end cost there, some def debuff resistance and resistance to all typed damage.
I'd have one build with fight pool and one build with med pool (they do different things these builds) but always with passives.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Skipping Dodge and Lucky would be like going to a job interview without your pants.
Sure you are adequately covered in shirt, tie, vest, jacket, socks and shoes but you still won't get the job done.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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rofl. good one.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Skipping Dodge and Lucky would be like going to a job interview without your pants.
Sure you are adequately covered in shirt, tie, vest, jacket, socks and shoes but you still won't get the job done. |
The problem with going SS is you need to take flurry or hasten. flurry sucks. Hasten is great but I don't have a need for it on my claws/SR, so why even dip into that pool?
Ask yourself this, "Why do all the SR builds include Dodge and Lucky? There must be a reason.
This is like someone taking jumpkick to get to SJ. Sure it may look funny. and ya its an attack, but really?!! I cringe every time I see someone waste a powerpick that could actually be helpful in buffing defense and having a spot to put really nifty IOs
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I didnt even consider not taking Tough and Weave. |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
[edit] Originally I had a note here complaining about your endurance consumption in the build without passives.
Then I realized your SS was toggled on. I still think it is a bit high, and that you are almost certainly better off skipping Tough/Weave instead for the passives. |
To me, they are as important as Stamina. I guess i gotta think outside of the box more often and ignore the cookie-cutter builds.Quote:
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Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Who knows, if you succeed at it, people might rub their chins, wrinkle their brows, and go hmmmm, and before you know it you have started a fad
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It was 2am when i made up those builds so my brain wasnt functioning at full capacity. Though, it is rare when it does.
I re-did 'em and came up witha way to fit in CJ with all 3 passives and some more end red.
I wanted some vertical control for the inside of mish's, goin to and from mish's i could care less.
Thank you all for your advice, it was most appreciated.
This will be my first SR scrap so im just curious if ill be shooting myself in the foot by not taking Dodge and Lucky.
My thoughts are that its a defense based secondary and while having damage resist is nice it isnt really needed, especially since SR's resist is tied to your HP's.
I want to keep the blaze mastery and i would prefer to have the leaping pool just for the sake of convenience, ive had a toon thats only had SS as a movement power before and it sucked.
s'Why im thinking of ditching Dodge and Lucky.
This is the build that has Dodge and Lucky.
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And this one dosnt have 'em. It has slightly less Accuracy and DDR as well.
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Both are soft-capped and both have perma-hasten.
Any and all thoughts are appreciated. Thx.
Member of the Stoned Templars
{|-|} Easy Kills {|-|} A&TC {|-|}