To take Dodge/Lucky or not...


Another Space

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaheroe View Post
rofl. good one.

The problem with going SS is you need to take flurry or hasten. flurry sucks. Hasten is great but I don't have a need for it on my claws/SR, so why even dip into that pool?

Ask yourself this, "Why do all the SR builds include Dodge and Lucky? There must be a reason.

This is like someone taking jumpkick to get to SJ. Sure it may look funny. and ya its an attack, but really?!! I cringe every time I see someone waste a powerpick that could actually be helpful in buffing defense and having a spot to put really nifty IOs
Hasten is useful in every build regardless of if you need it. How can you not have a need for a power that gives you 70% recharge that stacks with Quickness meaning you can have access to your attacks more often?

I understand here you are coming from, but I just don't understand how it can be viewed as a problem.

In reference to your last question multiple people have already given you the reason why most people take Dodge and Lucky. Noone has said that they are required powers, but a lot take them and the reasons why people take them have been listed here in multiple threads.

Defense Debuff Resistance............answered again.


"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud View Post
13% DDR is virtually nothing when theres 72% still there...
Also Grant Cover from SD adds 13% DDR and alot of people dont take that power.
First, since noone addressed it, most high-end /Shield builds pack enough recharge to double-stack Active Defense, and usually slot two Membrane Exposures to get their DDR high enough to not need Grant Cover.

/SR's Passives are actually pretty awesome for what they do. Are they skippable? Yes. Is it optimal to do so? No. The DDR is the primary reason, and Bill Z explained why in a nicely humorous, and yet perfectly accurate example. Cascading Defense failure makes for a bad day.

The scaling resists are good. If you're going for a solid AV soloing build, then they really help when an AV smacks you twice in a row. If your HP total is high, you can easily survive a one-two from an AV and have time to click that green, or fire off Aid Self. I found the scaling resists particularly valuable as I leveled my FM/SR, allowing me to survive strings of attacks that would have killed all but an /Invul scrapper at lower levels.

I highly reccommend you take them. However, if you want to experience the difference, try it without and respec if needed, or copy over to the test server and try it out.

Best of luck!


 

Posted

You can skip Dodge and Lucky provided you never plan on running an ITF....Ever.

Sooner or later, one of them will hit you and reduce your defense, making it easier for the next one to hit you and reduce your defense, which makes it easier for the next one to hit you and reduce your defense. See where I'm going with this?

It's called "cascading defense failure" and SR is the ONLY set that is almost completely immune to it. But...it needs the passives in order to be. By skipping the passives you are giving up fully a third of your defense debuff resistance. Against Romans, or any enemy group that involves a lot of machine gun fire (which is most of them) you will be in danger of having your defense debuffed to the point of uselessness. And since your only defense is, well, defense, having it debuffed is not conducive to survival.

It's up to you, but if you skip them, you WILL find yourself dying in places other SRs wouldn't because your defense has been debuffed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novella View Post
Hasten is useful in every build regardless of if you need it. How can you not have a need for a power that gives you 70% recharge that stacks with Quickness meaning you can have access to your attacks more often?

I understand here you are coming from, but I just don't understand how it can be viewed as a problem.

In reference to your last question multiple people have already given you the reason why most people take Dodge and Lucky. Noone has said that they are required powers, but a lot take them and the reasons why people take them have been listed here in multiple threads.

Defense Debuff Resistance............answered again.
Actually hasten on an SR is a playstyle choice. My wife has a softcapped Claws/SR that has more than 70% global recharge without hasten. It's softcapped for AoE defense and a little over the softcap on Ranged and Melee to account for things that are auto hit defense debuffs (Like quicksand).

Her travel power is Quickness+Swift+Sprint+Combat Jumping. CJ is 6 slotted. 3 pieces of zephyr, 2 pieces of LotG, and a Winters Gift. Any thing she can't jump over with that she just turns her raptor pack on for a second to handle. I team with her on my toon that has super speed and hurdle. On the ground she's just slightly slower than unslotted super speed (mine has the base slot with a Celerity +Stealth) and she flies quite a bit faster with her raptor pack than I do with mine since Swift and Quickness both enhance flight speed.

She's happy with her total recharge and she has a seemless attack chain which is all she needs to feel good about the toon. That particular toon is a tribute to our recently deceased 25+ year old family cat. She designed the toon as a remembrance but still plays it because its alot of fun for her.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud View Post
I didnt even consider not taking Tough and Weave. To me, they are as important as Stamina. I guess i gotta think outside of the box more often and ignore the cookie-cutter builds.




Lol judging by these resposes, the only fad ill have started is to neg rep people who ask for opinions...and they didnt even leave a humorous comment for me to laugh at.




It was 2am when i made up those builds so my brain wasnt functioning at full capacity. Though, it is rare when it does.

I re-did 'em and came up witha way to fit in CJ with all 3 passives and some more end red.
I wanted some vertical control for the inside of mish's, goin to and from mish's i could care less.


Thank you all for your advice, it was most appreciated.
I know you have a lot of input already, but my thought is this: I'd skip weave, tough, or focus chi before I skipped the passives.

That said, you typically are on my team when doing itfs, meaning you are way above soft cap. So up to you really.


 

Posted

Quick comment on Hasten:

It doesn't help my claws/sr. I keep meaning to respec out of it but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Why doesn't it help?

The best claws ST attack chain is FU, Slash, Focus, repeat. You need 313% recharge in FU to do it. Even with Hasten, 4 purple sets and several other +recharge set bonuses, I don't have enough recharge for that chain.

However, even without hasten, I do have enough global recharge for FU, Slash, Focus, Swipe, repeat which is what I run now.

So for me, hasten has no worth.

What about AoEs? With or without it, I can cycle FU, Spin, Shockwave, repeat.

So, yes, there ARE cases where hasten is a wasted pick.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
So, yes, there ARE cases where hasten is a wasted pick.
Like if you made a concept-based Spines Scrapper who chained Barb Swipe all the time. The animation on Barb Swipe is longer than its recharge. Hasten wouldn't improve your attack chain at all. (Almost anything else would, though. :P)


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

I dropped hasten on my BS/DA for 2 reasons

1) All it did was speed up the rate at which I burned endurance.

2) The only power it really benefitted was Dark Regeneration, and if I need that power more than every 34 seconds, my build has bigger problems than recharge.

Besides, I kinda like the pauses in my attacks. It gives them time to be afraid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Like if you made a concept-based Spines Scrapper who chained Barb Swipe all the time. The animation on Barb Swipe is longer than its recharge.
Sadly, this nit must be picked. Recharge doesn't start until animation is completed.

That's why you go barbswipe, flurry, repeat.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post

However, even without hasten, I do have enough global recharge for FU, Slash, Focus, Swipe, repeat which is what I run now.

So for me, hasten has no worth.

What about AoEs? With or without it, I can cycle FU, Spin, Shockwave, repeat.

So, yes, there ARE cases where hasten is a wasted pick.

This and QFT.

I just hit 80% global recharge the other day. My AoE attack is Focus, Evis, Fu, Spin, repeat. I like it. (I have a chance for BU in Focus, thats why I use it)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCharraigin View Post
Remember the Strong And Pretty thread where Mr Playschool bucked public opinion, made a Warmace/Energy Brute, before the buffs, and had a great time with it Even drew pics of it's adventures
I always thought "STRONG AND PRETTY" was meant in an ironic way. >.>


 

Posted

For all these reasons mentioned before TAKE THEM. For one, yes the defense adds up. The capping defense debuff resistance is very very nice. Just imagine, you get hit by an attack that does 20% defense debuff. Lets say you're at the defense cap. So that your 75% DDR vs 95% DDR

So you're looking at your defense going from 40%, versus 44%, that makes a HUGE difference if you care to look at any other of the millions of threads that go over how useful softcapping is.

Not to mention the scaling resistances, which i personally find to be one of the more useful aspecs of the power, considering the set itself is all defense based, and its your only resistances. When you add accolades, and +HP bonuses it actually increases the scaling resistances because it gives them more room to work.

On average, the 3 scaling resistances equate to about, hmm not at home so can't check my exact post till i look for it but about 15% resistance overall. Which may not seem like terribly much. With 20% max hp from accolades and what most of my SR builds get about 15%ish max hp, it takes that to about 20% average resistance. When the set is otherwise fully defense based, and when especially talking about the defense cap, that makes a very noticeable difference.

Plus just in general the fun of playing when your at next to no HP and not worrying like you would with other secondaries :P.

Also, to whoever said the 3 toggles max at 60%, is wrong. If you reach 60%, at... 0hp.. you're dead, they won't be helping you much then XD. Generally, as they work, increasing at .3% resistance per HP below 60%, you'll never really get use out of your 2-3%HP, which is where the resistances have their highest value sadly, because even at the 55%ish resistance you have at that point, the slightest damage is pretty much going to kill you anyways. So is the nature of the beast, very sad. Why i wish they'd make it .075% per Hp below 100% per passive, and starting at 2% at 100%. That way it avoids that horrendous spike damage, where its almost a curse to have full health on a SR, and lets the scaling resistances work the whole way through your HP bar. I calculated it IIRC the .075% scaling per HP below 100% per passive would be the same equivalent average resistance as they work now, but by being more useful working spread out throughout the entire HP bar.


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Posted

You take Dodge and Lucky. Two reasons:

First, SR is all about the defense, and every little bit helps. While the autos don't provide a lot of defense, they are AUTOS. Free defense, always there, no cost. Added to the toggles, and perhaps CJ and Weave, they take that much closer to the cap.

Second, that scaling resist is vital. Defense is all or nothing, and thanks to the 5% rule, something will always be getting thru. But thanks to the scaling resist, the more you get hurt, the harder you are to hurt, and the resistance in the 3 autos STACKs. This will turn many situations where you would be eating pavement into just a little blip as you much a green or pop off Elude.

The only optional powers in SR are Quickness and Elude, and even those two should be taken if your build has the room.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze View Post
The only optional powers in SR are Quickness and Elude, and even those two should be taken if your build has the room.
Kinda, or actually only Elude... atleast im very reluctant to give up quickness (like that +20% recharge and speed)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xandez View Post
Kinda, or actually only Elude... atleast im very reluctant to give up quickness (like that +20% recharge and speed)
I agree, not to mention the run speed and slow resistance. Which is very important to make sure your mez protection click doesn't get slowed too much so you are left vulnerable.

I usually pick up quickness at 38 now, which is later than i'd want it to be, but its either that, or build up at 38. The attacks and defenses/fitness are ususally more important so unfortunately quickness gets put off till 38 with mine.


Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental

Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration

Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server