Hydrophidian

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Is something like that reasonable or would that be an uber nerf to the AE that limits you too much?

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It's been suggested before and, yes, I believe it's way too restrictive. Custom critters still take up far too much file space to implement this suggestion. Even if they were adjusted so that they took up less space, it'd still be a problem.

I have one published arc right now, and it's maxed out. There are three custom groups. One group has 3 minions, 2 lieutenants, 1 boss, and an EB. The second group has just 1 minion. The third has just 1 boss (he's a unique spawn).

Implementing your suggestion would mean I'd have to put a lieutenant and a boss in group 2. Not only would this significantly diminish the concept of the group (and break the mission they're in), I'd have to remove two critters from the first group to make room for them. That'd make group 1 a considerably less interesting encounter.

Then, for group 3, I'd either have to essentially duplicate group 2 and put the boss in it (likely losing yet another critter in group 1 to make room for that), or make the boss an EB and put him into group 1. But I don't want him to be an EB, I want him to simply be a unique boss.

Either way, in the end, I'd have two groups homogenized to a 1m/1l/1b breakdown, and thus scrubbed of all their flavor and character. Within a mission, mob configuration would be practically identical from spawn to spawn. That's pretty boring. One mission would become easier than it was intended to be, and another would be rendered too difficult. In light of this, I'd have to make further changes to the missions, homogenizing them even more.

Most enemy groups in the standard content are quite varied (those that aren't tend to have very limited exposure). As it is, MA authors generally don't have the freedom to create groups with that much variety, because it'd take up too much space. What you suggest would limit us even further, to the point where I think a great many MA encounters--maybe the majority--would be homogenized to 1m/1l/1b (which would, in a lot of cases, simply spawn as 1m/1l).

Regular content isn't anywhere near that static and stale. I think it'd get old, fast.

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If i want Superior XP for my time, i go to the MA.

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...And get on a PL farm team and go into a farm map.

Because otherwise, it's not even remotely "superior".

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I'm not saying griefing doesnt exist. I'm saying theres no way to actually stop it from happening

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Griefing could be all but eliminated with a much better system.

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There is no XP parity, MA XP (Farms ie 90%sh of the content run) > Reg XP.

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I don't buy the '90%ish' number. But even if it were so, it is very likely that the problem with MA is not that it attracts too many PLers, but rather that it fails to attract enough players who don't PL.

I don't power-level, and neither do a lot of other people. So it is already not worth it to me to level in MA, given the reduced gains. Thus, I don't use MA to level. As I understand it, this is not the reaction the developers were hoping for.

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So we agree there are all sorts of rewards in this game besides XP. As a result, removing XP from the AE, since it is only one of many reward, isn't really all that drastic a thing, is it?

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Yes, it is.

Again:

MA is intended to be an alternative to leveling up in the standard content.

You can't do that very well without XP.

Removing XP from MA would defeat a large part of its purpose: to provide a endless source of game content for people playing the game.

And, again, it's already lackluster in this regard.

The purpose of MA is to facilitate player created content for a game.

No, it is not just about storytelling. It has never been just about storytelling. Those who keep banging this drum about "story", claiming it's the end-all-be-all of MA's "intended purpose" keep conveniently ignoring the context in which MA exists.

This is a game.

As such, risk and reward are implicit in the fundamental design. It is by design that players are supposed to be able to utilize MA as an alternative to regular content. Significantly diminish experience gain, and it will no longer practically or meaningfully be that alternative. It will no longer be fulfilling its "intended purpose". It will no longer be part of the game.

And, by the way, it's already dangerously close to that status now. As it is, trying to level up solo in MA is significantly slower than it is outside of it. So much so, that I don't even consider it worth pursuing when solo or on small teams. And, judging by market activity, I'm not alone in that assessment. So maybe the MA is (allegedly) dominated by power-levelers because the rewards aren't meaningful enough for anyone outside of maxed-out farm teams. Maybe they need to be increased, not slashed.

Which brings me to another point that apparently has to be reiterated. No, not everyone is using MA. It's just not possible. A significant number of people have gone back to doing regular content. Market activity shows this to be inarguably the case. Just because they're not doing it with you, doesn't mean they're not doing it at all.

MA is brand new and it's been introduced at a time when there's not much in the way of new stuff outside of it. It's going to be a while before its impact on the environment settles. Attempting to enforce pre-MA conditions with ham-fisted, draconian "solutions" like "cut MA XP in half" would be short-sighted and ill-advised.

MA is a significant development, a game-changing addition to the environment. Expecting it to be integrated seamlessly without any upset to the (alleged) status quo is, I'd say, more than a little unreasonable. The cries of "it's killing the game!" are grossly premature and, frankly, aren't at all supported by my own experiences. In fact, from my vantage, it's actually revitalized the game quite a bit. I've seen people returning that I haven't seen in months, sometimes years.

In short, it's going to be some time before it can be accurately determined if MA needs to be "fixed" at all. Putting ideas out there are fine, just in case, but claims that they need to be implemented RITE NAO are just an indication to me that MA's not being given a fair shake by the person making the claim. It's waaaay too early to declare anything definitive about it's permanent usage.

And thus way too early to do anything so drastic that it very well might destroy the feature entirely.

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Also a couple changes in the sounds. Apparently I'm the only one who noticed.

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You're not. Seems like the revamped a lot of the "foley" audio effects: footfalls, splashes, doors, etc.

Sadly, though, they didn't fix those audio effects in Cimerora.

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They didn't have Foley Grips back then.

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Badabing!

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DR would be a horrible solution and would have a large impact on many folks game experience.

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I think that'd largely depend on where those diminishing returns started.

Point is, the devs seem to like the general idea of DR. If it's really a horrible solution for this particular problem--if it is a problem, I'm still not convinced of that, myself--then more ideas need to be put forward.

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Back to what I WAS talking about: Can we get a definition of "ultra rare"? There must be a target there somewhere. I don't want to see it used to explain away all gripes about purples. Since the Devs made no alteration to drop rates before MA, that indicates they were ok with the supply back then. If that's true, it would seem an increase in the drop rate would now be in order to get back to that level.

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Except MA hasn't been around that long. We don't know how much of a lasting impact it'll have on supply.

Since MA's introduction, there have been some wild shifts in the market. Right now, there are many indications that folks are returning to doing regular content. Will the numbers reach pre-MA levels? Honestly, I think it's too early to say.

But I bet the developers won't even consider adjusting drop rates until after Going Rogue has been out for a bit.

Oh, and it's not just MA that impacted purples. It was Merits as well.

My feeling is the drop rate will probably get adjusted at some point. It just won't be any time soon.

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Also a couple changes in the sounds. Apparently I'm the only one who noticed.

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You're not. Seems like the revamped a lot of the "foley" audio effects: footfalls, splashes, doors, etc.

Sadly, though, they didn't fix those audio effects in Cimerora.

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I think the very best way to improve this aspect of the AE is for people to stop caring how other players are playing the game and just start focusing on enjoying themselves.

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I don't care how other people play... until it ends up negatively impacting my own game.

The simple truth is: if power-leveling in MA reaches proportions that the developers find unacceptable, previous experience has shown that they'll do something about it. And whatever they do will likely affect us all.

Given some of their recent ham-fisted "solutions", that makes me a tad twitchy.

So, I'd like to see dialogue continue on the issue, ideas kicked around, because if it really is a problem (which is solely the call of the devs), it'll be addressed somehow, and I'd rather it were addressed in a manner that has minimal impact on my own game experience.

Thanks.

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Just playing to fifty does not guarantee you enough inf to IO your toon with sets

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To which I must ask...

So?

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Also, earning the good stuff gives me something to DO with my 50s. It's a way of continuing to improve, to continue to put in effort to get rewards, very similar to the leveling up process itself.

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Which was pretty much the point, if I recall correctly.

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Wanna bet?

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The price has taken a huge nosedive, at least villain-side for me. All of the normal white salvage (barring Luck Charms) was going for its average of around 250-500.

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MA's launch gutted the existing market supply on a lot of things, including common salvage, so price spikes are currently typical behavior for several items, and the average prices have lifted almost everything out of the status of "vendor trash".

However, incoming supply seems to be gradually reaching pre-MA levels. So, the "common salvage will soon be the most expensive at WW/BM" prediction doesn't look very likely to me. To put it mildly.

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Diminishing returns would encourage 50 of the same mission to be posted by different individuals creating a chain of AE missions to get around the diminishing returns.

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I believe the OP is referring to total time spent in MA, not in individual arcs.

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Solutions like requiring minions, lts and bosses (like regular missions) and reducing objectives (like regular missions) would vastly bring AE into line with regular missions.

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And would negatively impact story creation. When I see suggestions like this, I have to assume they're coming from someone who doesn't actually create story arcs, so I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about:

Bosses. When you have a M/L/B group, you don't see bosses a lot in random spawns. You need a large team or a small team on a high difficulty. Even then, they can be sporadic in their appearances.

But a Boss custom takes up as much file space as any other mob. Maybe more. So, it's kind of a waste.

As a story creator, I'll get "more bang for my buck" making a custom group with 2 minions and a lieutenant than I would with a group that's 1M, 1L, 1B. The spawns will then be more diverse and interesting. After all, if I ever want a boss here and there, I can set that with a detail.

Bottom line, custom mobs are still too expensive to implement a M/L/B requirement for every group. It'd end up making such groups very generic and boring, as, more often than not, you'd run into just 1 minion type, 1 lieutenant type, and one boss type.

And that's not in line with the standard content at all.

This is just one example of the negative impact of your suggestion.

I don't think removing design options is the way to go in a system that's meant to facilitate player created content.

"AE Camping" isn't a problem. However, too much power-leveling potentially is.

If the developers determine it's still too rampant, they'll probably do something along the lines of what you've suggested. It'd be the least painful option for the rest of us.

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It's sad cause common salvage will soon be the most expensive at WW/BM.

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Wanna bet?

First of all, you have to expect people to go and use The New Thing™ for a while. Frankly, I find the whole 'MA has ruined the game, everywhere else is a ghost town' complaint to be kinda premature. Maybe we should give it an issue or two before announcing the game's death? Just a thought.

Secondly, I'm also finding the complaint to be a tad overstated. The rest of the game can't be nearly as abandoned as some of the posts in this thread would lead us to believe. How do I know that? The market tells me so.

The supply on items that can only be gained through playing standard content keeps coming in. Yes, the pace is slower than it was pre-MA (and the prices are reflecting that), but it's nothing like it was when MA first went live.

For example, within the first week of MA's introduction, the recipe for Rocket Boots shot up in price to 20-30 million. This happened because hardly any were being listed. Hardly any were being listed, because hardly any were dropping. Hardly any were dropping, because practically everyone had their face in MA. On blueside, the existing supply on this recipe actually dropped to zero.

However, right now, there's over 60 for sale, and they're regularly selling for a few million. Those recipes are coming from somewhere, and they're coming in at a steady enough pace to keep the price from spiking. The only explanation for this is that a significant number of people are playing the standard content.

Third, as has been stated before in this thread, things change. The game isn't static. If you've a very particular playstyle and you're not willing to bend on it at all, well, you're probably going to have periods of difficulty. If that happens, it doesn't mean the game is dead, it just means the game is different. You can either roll with it, or not... your choice. But to expect the developers to railroad everyone else into compliance with your (narrow) preferences is probably going to lead to disappointment.

Everyone being in MA, if that were even true, is not actually a problem for the game. It's just a problem for you... and largely because you've made it one.

I've never seen the Hall of Fame status as an indicator of quality. It's more an indicator of acceptability. Just because an arc's popular doesn't mean it's "good". It just means it's good enough. It appeals to the broadest possible range. Of course, in doing so, it can't appeal to more particular tastes.

So, if you want Hall of Fame, it's not enough to make a good arc. In fact, making a "good" arc might guarantee that you won't get that status, depending on what your idea of "good" is; if your criteria for it is too specific. If you want Hall of Fame, you have to give them what they want. Whatever that happens to be. You have to appeal to the mainstream.

And there's the problem. I've played some great arcs. But they'll probably never be in the Hall of Fame--at least not any time soon--because they're too good at what they are to appeal to the widest possible spectrum of players.

I don't (and won't) write arcs for a broad audience. I like story, conceptual stuff, immersion, humor, horror, the supernatural, and some other things that'll make certain my audience will always be a "niche".

Honestly, I'm fine with that. If I ever want HoF, I'll make an arc specifically designed for obtaining it (and then pimp it up, down, and sideways). I don't see that happening, though. I'm not really into making pap for the masses.

And ultimately, that's all HoF arcs will ever be. At least in the short term.

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That's great, but the bio of one of the heroes outright said she was bisexual.

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Well, then, that's not alluding, is it.

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I can understand it being popular but to warrant a Hall of Fame label?

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Hall of Fame is gained via player ratings... as has now been pointed out to you multiple times in this thread. If enough players rate an arc highly, it'll get Hall of Fame.

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It alludes to some adult subjects.

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For the record, that's actually covered by a T rating. "Suggestive themes" is the phrase, if I remember correctly.

Tickets from ratings, probably.

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Sorry, but the Registrars are committing grand larceny. People that have done the research will tend to avoid doing that conversion.

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I've done the research, and I've found it all depends on how quickly Inf can be earned. With market play, Inf can be earned very quickly. It can make even that horrible conversion rate tolerable.

That said, to earn Inf at that pace, you need to know what you're doing and you need to make a concerted effort in doing it. All your transaction slots (preferably the full 21) should be at work, and working efficiently, and you should be equipped with a substantial bankroll to start.

I left Prestige Farmers in the dust by marketing. But I think I qualify as a marketeer (specifically a crafting marketeer), and that seems to be an applicable designation for only a small minority of the player base. For most players, I wouldn't recommend using the conversion rate, even with Fulmens' generous offer added onto it. I might consider 100 million to be 'no big thang', but, in my experience, to most players, that's a substantial chunk o' change.

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Remember the old days when they were called tinyplots?

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Probably still are.

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The impact is that they're getting the most enjoyment out of their monthly fees. There is no "right" way to have fun. Everyone has fun differently.

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While this is true enough, there is a wrong way to "play" the game, which is determined not by any of us, but by the devs.

And if they determine that too many people are playing the game in this terribly-all-wrong fashion, they'll take steps to address it... as they've done in the past.

In the meantime, I think people need to just adapt and roll with it. The game isn't static. The experience evolves. Things change, break and need to be tinkered with. It's an MMO. It's just the nature of the beast. Ya gotta expect it.