Suggested MA Alterations & Improvements
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2009-06-29 08:23 in Mission Architect
"AE Camping" isn't a problem. However, too much power-leveling potentially is.
If the developers determine it's still too rampant, they'll probably do something along the lines of what you've suggested. It'd be the least painful option for the rest of us.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
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Diminishing returns would encourage 50 of the same mission to be posted by different individuals creating a chain of AE missions to get around the diminishing returns.
Solutions like requiring minions, lts and bosses (like regular missions) and reducing objectives (like regular missions) would vastly bring AE into line with regular missions.
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Solutions like requiring minions, lts and bosses (like regular missions) ... would vastly bring AE into line with regular missions.
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Yes, but would that be a good thing? I'm serious: part of the reason the AE allows greater returns is that it allows players to fight greater threats than are available in PvE. I don't want to see that go away. I would much rather see the difficulty slider modified so that players could achieve similar effects in PvE.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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Diminishing returns would encourage 50 of the same mission to be posted by different individuals creating a chain of AE missions to get around the diminishing returns.
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I believe the OP is referring to total time spent in MA, not in individual arcs.
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Solutions like requiring minions, lts and bosses (like regular missions) and reducing objectives (like regular missions) would vastly bring AE into line with regular missions.
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And would negatively impact story creation. When I see suggestions like this, I have to assume they're coming from someone who doesn't actually create story arcs, so I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about:
Bosses. When you have a M/L/B group, you don't see bosses a lot in random spawns. You need a large team or a small team on a high difficulty. Even then, they can be sporadic in their appearances.
But a Boss custom takes up as much file space as any other mob. Maybe more. So, it's kind of a waste.
As a story creator, I'll get "more bang for my buck" making a custom group with 2 minions and a lieutenant than I would with a group that's 1M, 1L, 1B. The spawns will then be more diverse and interesting. After all, if I ever want a boss here and there, I can set that with a detail.
Bottom line, custom mobs are still too expensive to implement a M/L/B requirement for every group. It'd end up making such groups very generic and boring, as, more often than not, you'd run into just 1 minion type, 1 lieutenant type, and one boss type.
And that's not in line with the standard content at all.
This is just one example of the negative impact of your suggestion.
I don't think removing design options is the way to go in a system that's meant to facilitate player created content.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
I have created a few story arcs and toyed with some single map mehcanics as well as some that people would call farms.
MA isn't limited by intellectual creativeity, it is limited by small file size.
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On the Mission Architect: Not everyone reads the forums, after all, and not everyone might realize that the Rikti Communication Officers were out of whack. But you'd have to be incredibly, pants-on-head retarded not to know that leveling at that speed was broken ~Justaris
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The quote in your sig identifies the problem and the solution. The leveling speed is broken. This is what should be limited, and there are many ways to resolve this.
Just as the Winterlord caused excessive level gains, so is AE. There should be a limit on XP/minute gained over a rolling average of the last 20-60 minutes. The values should be chosen so that the typical XP we expect are still obtained. But the 20/levels per hour we're seeing in AE should be stopped. Other rewards (influence, tickets) should be limited in the same fashion -- not a cap per mission, but a maximum rate.
Five-seven levels an hour at lower levels should be fine, less at higher levels. But 20 levels an hour? This is broken and bad for the game.
If you fix the problem in this way, it will be forever fixed. No matter what gimmick or exploit someone comes up with, they would always be limited by the xp/minute cap. Winterlords, AE, PLing with perma-46s, the method won't matter. You just won't be able to get XP, influence, tickets, etc., faster than is reasonable
Rodion, the problem with that is that greater risk missions should provide greater rewards.
And 20 levels an hour hasn't existed since the comm officers were fixed, unless maybe from 1-20.
This is a great idea, Timeshadow. Here's my first two ideas, which I originally posted here and here. I posted an idea between these two, but it wasn't very good. 
Advanced Mission Goal: TRANSFORM
Transform is a command associated to an NPC in an Event class. The character changes from one character to another, and the change in classification helps turns on settings. As the character changes, it also has the option of using a costume change e-mote.
For an example, Dr. Jeckyl is a scientist players lead to his lab kit. When he gets there, he gets a whiff of the chemicals brewing and with a might roar, changes into Mr. Hyde in front of the player.
Advanced Mission Objective: RITUAL
Rituals, as in Disrupt the Ritual, can currently be placed by just creating a basic Release a Captive, or if you want to be trickier, Add an Ally or Add an Escort. Add an appropriate Enemy animation and an appropriate Captured animation, and call it a day.
But what if you want to add a time limit, and a consequence, to NOT stopping the ritual? For instance-- those poor souls captured by the Vhazilok and transformed into Eidolons... wouldn't it be fun to see that happen, and have it seriously hurt the mission?
What I propose is a Ritual objective that behaves much like an Escort, but allows the architect to set a time limit to rescue the hostage(s), what event triggers the timer, and a transformation where the hostage is removed and an Enemy is placed. It can even be set Rogue, killing the enemy group that summons it.
DR is not any kind of improvement its a stupid devs cruch to heavy handedly dictate to players what to play.
Thank goodness the devs are not stupid enough to implement this stupid suggestion that has been suggested many many times and poo pooed over the past two months for various reasons.
This is just ANOTHER nerf AE thread in disguise.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I would actually support per-critter-type diminishing returns if it had the right parameters. IMHO players should be rewarded for the effort of changing tactics to fight multiple enemy types. Getting the parameters right would be hard, though, and the whole thing might be too computationally intensive to be feasible.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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Just as the Winterlord caused excessive level gains, so is AE. There should be a limit on XP/minute gained over a rolling average of the last 20-60 minutes. The values should be chosen so that the typical XP we expect are still obtained. But the 20/levels per hour we're seeing in AE should be stopped. Other rewards (influence, tickets) should be limited in the same fashion -- not a cap per mission, but a maximum rate.
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I hadn't thought of that Rodion. I wasn't around to witness the infamous Winter Lord babies but I've heard the stories.
Diminishing Returns is the most obvious and, arguably, simplest solution but its hardly elegant. Further alteration of the XP/minute rate would certainly help to reduce any potential exploitation of the Architect System. It would, in theory, have the same curbing effect and prevent players from reaping benefits that are dispropotional, albeit greatly reduced since the days of Meow farms, to running Dev created content.
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DR is not any kind of improvement its a stupid devs cruch to heavy handedly dictate to players what to play.
Thank goodness the devs are not stupid enough to implement this stupid suggestion that has been suggested many many times and poo pooed over the past two months for various reasons.
This is just ANOTHER nerf AE thread in disguise.
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I appreciate your opinion Darth but that's not what this thread is meant for. I'll see you back in the Kheldian forums.
Diminishing returns. Yes lets punish people for playing more. I'm sorry your too good at this game so we have to slow down and or cap your xp/tickets influence per mission/hour whatever.
The best thing to bring AE in line with the rest of the game is require custom groups to have minions, lts, amd bosses. Sure that kills any challenge all boss maps but really those are all just farms anyway. Heaven forbid you see a minion, had a guy quit my team saying wtf this mission has minions lol.
It's a double edge sword. AE lets the players do a lot of things. Auto side kick, custom enemies, map selection, ambushes, captives, etc etc. So really if you want to start cutting out features or implementing limits your going to curb creativity, I guess it's up to the devs to say if your mission is "acceptable" with no real guide lines other than a poorly laid out here's what you can build in MA but if you build a "farm" mission it will get banned.
Making your own missions is awesome. If your one of the simple minded people that think AE should be gone, well you probably already quit, saying the devs should make the content that's what I pay them for not get the players to do it. I mean that's just nuts and I saw someone say it lol.
Look here's the simple thing. Play the missions you want. Don't worry about the other guy and hope the devs have the common sense at this point to just fix anything that is a blatant exploit or bug.
Nice suggestion op. DRs could be tweaked to satisfy both sides of the fence, but they do feel sneaky to the avg player 
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This is just ANOTHER nerf AE thread in disguise.
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DOOOOM?
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Implement Diminishing Returns on tickets and XP earned from running arcs within a certain time frame.
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It should be noted that the devs did not implement this stricture on their own repeatable mission provider: Ouroboros.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Implement Diminishing Returns on tickets and XP earned from running arcs within a certain time frame.
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It should be noted that the devs did not implement this stricture on their own repeatable mission provider: Ouroboros.
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Exactly.
I think the very best way to improve this aspect of the AE is for people to stop caring how other players are playing the game and just start focusing on enjoying themselves.
No the only DOOMERS are the small group of people shouting change MA this way or all is DOOMED.
Pfft.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I posted some suggestions here here earlier this morning that are applicable to this thread.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
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I think the very best way to improve this aspect of the AE is for people to stop caring how other players are playing the game and just start focusing on enjoying themselves.
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I don't care how other people play... until it ends up negatively impacting my own game.
The simple truth is: if power-leveling in MA reaches proportions that the developers find unacceptable, previous experience has shown that they'll do something about it. And whatever they do will likely affect us all.
Given some of their recent ham-fisted "solutions", that makes me a tad twitchy.
So, I'd like to see dialogue continue on the issue, ideas kicked around, because if it really is a problem (which is solely the call of the devs), it'll be addressed somehow, and I'd rather it were addressed in a manner that has minimal impact on my own game experience.
Thanks.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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I think the very best way to improve this aspect of the AE is for people to stop caring how other players are playing the game and just start focusing on enjoying themselves.
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I don't care how other people play... until it ends up negatively impacting my own game.
The simple truth is: if power-leveling in MA reaches proportions that the developers find unacceptable, previous experience has shown that they'll do something about it. And whatever they do will likely affect us all.
Given some of their recent ham-fisted "solutions", that makes me a tad twitchy.
So, I'd like to see dialogue continue on the issue, ideas kicked around, because if it really is a problem (which is solely the call of the devs), it'll be addressed somehow, and I'd rather it were addressed in a manner that has minimal impact on my own game experience.
Thanks.
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DR would be a horrible solution and would have a large impact on many folks game experience.
Cause DR and changes that limit those that do things too well, was great for pvp, wasn't it?
Thanks.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
(QR)
Here's some ideas off the top of my head:
- I'd like to be able to trigger goals based on a combination of accomplished goals. In essence, Goal.A is triggered only after Goal.B and Goal.C have been completed, even though goals B and C are spawned at the same time!
- I'd like to be able to remove an NPC entity and immediately replace it with another NPC entity, think of the Kheldian story-arc that has you cure the Lost and what happens when you use the Cure power on a Lost NPC.
- Speaking of the Cure the Lost power, I'd like to be able to craft temp-powers and trigger them by the completion of certain goals. Imagine collecting some magic-dust canisters and once the collection is complete, the magic-dust can be "sprinkled" on your character resulting in a temp-power that is essentially a buff that lasts for as long as the story-designer designed the power to last.
- I'd like clues to include an image from the library of objects AE already lets us use as collectible objects.
- I'd like clues to include an image created from the costume of a custom critter Boss we defeated in mission.
- I'd like the ability to reward the player with "trading-cards" (or Badges) carrying the pictures of custom-critter Bosses and allow players to swap and trade these "cards".
EDIT :: Just thought of and added #6.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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DR would be a horrible solution and would have a large impact on many folks game experience.
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I think that'd largely depend on where those diminishing returns started.
Point is, the devs seem to like the general idea of DR. If it's really a horrible solution for this particular problem--if it is a problem, I'm still not convinced of that, myself--then more ideas need to be put forward.
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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DR would be a horrible solution and would have a large impact on many folks game experience.
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I think that'd largely depend on where those diminishing returns started.
Point is, the devs seem to like the general idea of DR. If it's really a horrible solution for this particular problem--if it is a problem, I'm still not convinced of that, myself--then more ideas need to be put forward.
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I'm still not connived is a problem either, seeing as how the cs team continues to remove any farms the find, and the devs continue to remove an exploitive items/mobs/animations they find.
Just cause some in the playerbase don't think they are not going fast enough doesn't really mean much to me.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
qr
I'd just like souvenirs to work right (character-specific instead of installation-global, not disappear randomly, etc).
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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- I'd like to be able to trigger goals based on a combination of accomplished goals.
- I'd like to be able to craft temp-powers and trigger them by the completion of certain goals.
- I'd like clues to include an image from the library of objects AE already lets us use as collectible objects.
- I'd like clues to include an image created from the costume of a custom critter Boss we defeated in mission.
- I'd like the ability to reward the player with "trading-cards" (or Badges) carrying the pictures of custom-critter Bosses and allow players to swap and trade these "cards".
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Great suggestions, Lord Xenite!
- Adding multiple circumstances for Event Spawn hadn't occured to me, but that's brilliant.
- This would take some work, but the format of these missions is a lot like a Task Force, so there's no reason they couldn't allow a pallette of custom weapon powers and options, including a specific effect on a specific enemy group (or specific enemy).
- That's not a clue, that's a souvenier, and I love the idea of including those as mission accomplishment items.
- Tricky, but not impossible-- every critter gets one of these already when created, so it's just a matter of where to send the image and why.
- While this is a cool idea, I think this is the least interesting to me, simply because I'd rather see other stuff get done first. Also, it creates a lot of extra code in the system that can add to lag (I believe). If the trading was done on something that was very, very difficult and standarized (Giant Monsters and such), then it would make more sense to collect them and have cards.
Hey everyone. As we're all aware, the Mission Architect is a revolutionary feature and has had a very large impact on CoX. Some will say it's leveled the playing field in terms of access to high end enhancements and sizeable funds. Others will talk about how it's allowed them to bring all their heroic and villainous ideas to life. Still others will tell you that it's ruined the game and spawned a bunch of power leveled n00bs who haven't the slightest grasp of what they're doing.
This thread isn't meant to be yet another place for those opinions to be voiced. Rather, I wanted to open a discussion as to how the Mission Architect can be altered and improved since it's obviously not going away. I've kicked around one idea in particular with members of my VG, particularly regarding how to strike a balance between the rewards earned by playing Dev created content versus MA content. We came up with the following:
<ul type="square">[*] Implement Diminishing Returns on tickets and XP earned from running arcs within a certain time frame. Similar to the system implemented to keep players from farming reward merits when they were first introduced. This would decrease the "AE Camping" and allow the Devs to relax a bit in terms of monitoring for potential exploits.[/list]