Fire_Away
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Posts
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Joined
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A programming dev at Hero Con told me that it would be perfectly reasonable for base raiding to be an opt in/ opt out proposition in the future. [Edit add: meaning if you don't want to do raids you can keep/continue doing whatever "cool things" you can do now in building your base.].
I can also tell you that the devs have expressed a desire for base raids to return.
I know too that Castle once asked for examples of raid bases that did things like trap players in jails, got them lost in impassable mazes, booted, etc.
What I don't know is if the "new" raiding system will have the same pathing rules etc. as the "old" raiding system. IIRC, in I13 closed beta there was an attempt at making everything in a base a destructable item (so you could "shoot/pound your way out" of a trap/maze situation). But that was abandoned in favor of the now decorative-friendly total removal of pathing restrictions. I also think the "everything is destructable" plan had some serious lag issues (but I'm not totally certain on that point).
Hope that helped some. -
Was hoping to hear more on bases but wasn't surprised when it did not happen (you get used to it after a couple of years... at least War Witch made some comments on the topic earlier). If anything, the word on base raids was even more clouded than I expected.
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Last post from me here (promise).
Quote:Good can we get back to that discussion then rather than me touching nerves?Originally Posted by Ravenous33
Thats fine, we have a serious base related discussion, but there are many ways of bringing one about without touching on nerves.
Again with the buttons/nerves. Tell ya what. If it wakes people up and moves this entire base development issue off the dime I can live with being blunt.Quote:I will say you had and have some good and valid points, but I fail to see why pushing peoples buttons was needed.
True on the friendly etc. part. Think "mad skillz" when equating elite if you prefer. Turbo has proven to be an elite base builder. [Edit add: So regardless of what I meant by "elite" my points were valid. Given a limited resources environment, do we focus new development first... on making life for the Turbo's of the game better?... or Joe Schmo the lowest rung on an sg who has never seen a base editor life in a base better?] And look what friendly has gotten us over the years.Quote:This community (the base builders) is one of the most friendly, down to earth and helpful group there is, and to be honest over the last year I have not met one elitest out there...
Too bad. So sad. Give everyone in the game an apartment and we'll be big and cool. Make bases do more and it'll add real value (and we'll be big and cool).Quote:I almost view base building as a bit of a dieing art/hobby/interest. Our community is small, yet loyal.
Been there. Done that and literally got the t-shirt. There once was this guy named Fire_Away. He volunteered to be a rep for all the players at Hero Con. He had a good handle on all the issues related to bases. He was on his best behavior. He spoke with many devs personally and was told many things (some of which I repeated elsewhere, some of which I cannot repeat). That was last October. Since then our dev rep for bases has flown the coop I believe (can't confirm, communications lockdown). Good luck Turbo. Hope you don't end up feeling like a pawn/smokescreen between the devs and the players. I know a guy who did. From now on, I'm speaking my mind.Quote:It is true we all feel a bit shunned by the lack of attention from the Dev's, but at least now we have a go between with them with Tubro.
Oh, come on! Point out a fresh idea that has not been brought to the table before please.Quote:Who has already started a thread to gather new and fresh idea's we can bring to the table.
Sounds good. When does the "function" part start? Cause I mostly ain't seeing itQuote:We need to continue to keep vigilent, keep our voices heard and work together to improve both function and fluff.
Five year vet here. Been waiting (and yes sometimes carping) for some stuff for bases for years. Despite it all, still trying to push this in the right direction (and still catching flack for it). I'm cool with it.Quote:In the end when it comes to bases, we all can get what we want.
I actually appreciate your concillatory tone. I hope you can appreciate where I am coming from.
C ya gang! (Loved the pic Pyber) -
Quote:Ouch! Knew I'd strike a nerve sooner rather than later. Not trying to play Forum Police. Just looking for a spot (somewhere) for some serious base related discussion that doesn't revolve (involve/devolve) around or into decorating stuff. Any chance of that happening?... I've been checking here just about every day and it hasn't happened for months.Originally Posted by Ironblade
Here, here's a thought. Everyone can post what they want, without you playing Forum Police.
But sure....everyone post what you want and I'll just pipe down. Queue the pretty pictures please. -
Quote:Not a dig per se... but you and I obviously have completely different interpretations on what a base is (should be) and does (and that contributes to the discussion...thank you). Yeah, if you press me, I'll say that what you are trying to do with the Museum is pretty much the ultimate form of elitism. That is, it's highly selective opulence that serves no real purpose other than to promote...not even original... "artistic expression". I'll also say you have a perfect right to do that and I hope you have fun with it. There certainly are page upon page of examples in this section of forum on which to draw possible material.Originally Posted by American_Angel
I think the OP took a slight dig at me, since I was the one with the Museum idea. This also makes me wonder if "Elitist" was meant as a dig as well.
One thing seems to get lost in this quest for selective individual artistic expression "we", as a forum community, have been on for some time now. Many a base has been built "on the backs" of sg prestige earners that have never seen a base editor. What does one person's "art" do for them? And yet, we can't make one page (including this one) in the forum that doesn't either present the decorative expression of the base designer or call for the base designer to have new tools... to do more decoration.
The shortsighted response to all this is: "well anyone can make a base on their own and do what they want with it". Know what? That is happening more and more. We are, not so gradually, destroying the fabric of what it is to be a "super group" in this game. Instead of "pounding" on the devs to do things that benefit everyone with bases, we are patting each other on the back for how great of a "castle in sky" we can individually create. We are making the choice, from a dev perspective, on what to do (or, more correctly, what can be placed "on ignore") rather easy don't you think?
OK, that last part got a little too dramatic I guess... but I hope you get the point. -
Since resurrecting the old seems very much in vogue these days, I figure it's ok to knock my forum rep down a few pegs with one of my old, less popular to many, arguments.
Here it is: I hope that the base construction forum does not morph into merely "Home and Garden" magazine. It's not that I don't admire and respect what base builders do (and the idea that people showcase stuff to share ideas is a good thing). It just seems to me though that opulence begets opulence and elitism begets elitism. My desire is not to put people down for their effort and creativity (hey if you want to build museum quality rooms based soley on the works of our "best" base designers, that is your business.). My fear is though that the voice of the elitist base designer will dominate the scene; especially when it comes to what happens next with precious new development (if we do receive new development). There are other voices...even if they mostly don't appear regularly here.
This really isn't the fault of players. Many large sg's have tons of prestige and nothing of functional value to spend it on. I find it sad though that there isn't more of an overall outcry to make the base experience better for the "rank and file" sg member. That is "our fault". I was encourged recently that NPC's (ones that may actually do something) and personal apartments actually made into the usual mix of ("I want moar stuff so I can build moar fluff") recently requested items. That's a good sign.
My view is... let's get functional first devs. For starters, let's make putting everything you can do in terms of in game support (tailor, trainer, WW/BM, hero corps/fateweaver, merit vendor, TF/SF, AE, etc.) in bases a priority. Let's green light those personal apartments to give others a chance at the building experience AND the sg experience. Let's go the route of encouraging more sg/vg participation with bases being the hub of such activity.
Like I said, it's an old argument. Nothing new here. I just didn't want the concept to get lost in the shuffle while going through page after page of everyone's latest and greatest artistic creation... and calls for the elite to be able to do more. There are other issues and points of view. -
Quote:Know what? I was thinking the exact same thing. There is some major "billing" here ("Did you ever wish we would lock the Dev Team up in a room so that you could ask them your questions? Well your wish is about to come true!") that doesn't jibe with the glib responses we've received elsewhere in the past. Guess it's not technically false advertising in that you can indeed "ask"... just don't expect too much back. I'll check this out just to see if some new tidbit of info somehow does leak out.Originally Posted by Catharctic
The devs can't even answer good questions at their own con. Why should we think this event will be any different?
Q: I was wondering. When will you be able to fix what you broke with PvP?
Non-Answer: It's on the slate for changes. We have no time frame.
Q: What are the rewards for the Incarnate system going to be like?
Non-Answer: You will like them.
Q: Why aren't you answering my questions?
A: You haven't asked me about anything that we've already discussed. We're not really doing this to give information. We're trying to convince people that we actually care about what the players want instead of what corporate allows us to do. -
Quote:Well, here we go again. Good luck.Originally Posted by Turbo_Starr
I am building a list of things that our community would like to see improved in base design and construction. This could range from room/plot prices to issues with stacking or new creative units you would like to see. I have researched previous posts but would rather have it under one branch where we the community can hold a candid discussion.
I intend to compile this information and bring it to the attention of a developer who will be designated to bases. Feel free to PM me if you feel uncomfortable posting here. Being the base representative, I can promise that our concerns will be addressed because I too am a base builder and want some closure. I will be following this thread regularly.
I would like to know who the developer is that "is designated to bases" and what information he/she needs from the player community that hasn't been covered. In other words, how are existing lists inadequate (perhaps cleaning up them rather than starting over is appropriate) That seems to me to be reasonable. Is it not?
Also, I have a couple of PMs from a former base rep that pretty wells sumarizes that the devs have a thorough understanding of prior player related base requests. I can't post it here because of the forum rules but under the circumstances I can forward it to you separately.
I still think you are taking a shot in the dark and trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist based on one word with a question mark from War Witch. But if it gets the devs "off the dime" I guess it's mission accomplished. [Edit add: If not, it just introduces more delay "the devs are 'waiting' for the players to compile a 'revised' list of what they want"] -
Quote:The more I think about it, the more I think you are right on the money here. And that begs the question why the need for "a slick new repackaging effort"?Originally Posted by JKPhage
Did it ever occur to any of you that closing that line with "suggestions?" was simply being cute/coy? It's kind of like listing off a huge amount of work that needs to be done and then asking for volunteers, it's just playful more often than not.
Huh? We are talking about War Witch here right? The person that was the former CoX world designer extraordinarie who knows more about "editing" in a CoX context than anyone on the planet? Yeah, I figure she would have a pretty good handle on the stuff that would make our "puny" bases a bit better already.Quote:Originally Posted by Electric-KnightNo one can be aware of all things and all that jazz... As lead designer, WW has to keep herself aware, but how much detail is realistic?
Yep, couple times over (Acknowledge you too have been down this road before).Quote:Originally Posted by Robo_KnightThere already is a list for Base Improvements and suggestions.
Well, since you asked... the "slick packaging" thing in a forum environment is actually much easier said than done. Once you start going beyond basic listing you start getting arguments. What's more important... editor? decorative? functional? pvp? What's more important under each of these sub categories? How are you gonna stop the extraneous stuff? With each "recap" someone's agenda gets promoted and someone elses gets left behind. And again... all for someone's benefit that most probably doesn't need it? Okay, is my response... you all can go there (again)...have at it if you want (but remember I told ya soQuote:Originally Posted by anonymooseWhat's to lose?
)
Anyway, I did not mean to dominate this thread. Guess you can tell the subject is near to my heart. Sorry if I took anyone out of context above. Please correct me if you feel that I'm wrong. No offense directed at anyone personally from here during this good discussion.
I'll shut up... for now. -
"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss" - The Who
Quote:Can't hurt if someone wants to do so. Then what happens?Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I'm sure WW or others on the staff are well aware of the stickied threads and all...
But, when I see the Devs (And WW, no less) publicly making it known she/they are interested in hearing suggestions, it means it is time to take everything we have, consolidate it and make a nice new shiny packaged presentation for quick and easy consumption. -
Quote:I like War Witch. I've never talked to her in person but I have attended panels she was on and she's very smart, pleasant and a straight shooter.Originally Posted by JKPhage
I for one would love an update to bases. I'm in an SG with a few good friends and only one of us has ever been any good with the base editor. If they give us a little bit more fine control and some new textures/themes/items I'll be pleased as punch that we might finally be able to get a decent looking base tossed together.
I'm also just gonna chip in my two cents on everyone being WAY too judgemental on WarWitch. Did it ever occur to any of you that closing that line with "suggestions?" was simply being cute/coy? It's kind of like listing off a huge amount of work that needs to be done and then asking for volunteers, it's just playful more often than not. Having seen WarWitch around for a while I'd say that's just her trying to lighten the mood. I'd imagine she's aware of the base suggestions thread. Alternatively, it could be a genuine invitation to send in your most wanted suggestions as, let's face it, those threads are massive, very old and have more than just a little filler chit-chat. They'd take forever to skim through personally to find all the usable suggestions in the grit. Not to mention that not everyone might even know it's there. Some of the more casual forum goers might not even venture as far as the base section or the server section, they might just be content to chill in general discussion and announcements just to get the meat of the news. Those people would likely appreciate an invitation to send in ideas if they don't know the thread(s) exist.
Either way, ease up on WarWitch. She JUST started as lead developer, they're in the crunch on GR, and she's doing her best to keep the development train moving as well as trying to keep in touch with the player base and make sure that people are as happy as possible. Just because bases aren't #1 on the list doesn't mean she's ignoring you.
That said, I believe the players deserve a much better shake when it comes to base related development. The argument that the players need to "do more" to better articulate what they want or that they just need to "be patient" whenever the subject of base development is broached has worn quite thin on me... War Witch comments or no. Given the number of players that have abandoned this forum section all together over the years, I am not alone.
First it was other players saying "Freem 15 you need to be patient". Then it was other players saying "Beefed up organization is ramping up be patient". Now it's "New lead developer and GR, go rehash again your desires and be patient." During this whole string of player comments the devs have said... very very litte. And when they do, they give vauge generalities which implies that either they don't know or don't much care about base related development.
The fact of the matter is the players have no choice but to be patient. The devs are going to develop what they are going to develop on their terms and priority. I get that and so do many of the rest of us. Some of us have spent literally years trying to influence positive change in the direction of bases without word or success. In light of this, my read was that War Witch did not suffer any great abuse in comparison recently in this thread.
I'll say it again. The players deserve a better shake from the devs. It could start (as mentioned over and over) with better communications and representation from their end. If someone would have told me after I13 that "We aren't going to do much with bases for awhile." I would have been a little disappointed but at least I would have known the true story and could have moved on to contributing my valued opinions on other things. I, for one, am not going to put a lot more time and effort definining player base related desires without some more assurance that it's going to get us somewhere.
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"You can threaten me all you like but the computer doesn't show anyone named Ann R. Kistlifter in the next arena match." -
Is the rumor true that marketing has determined that the boxed version CoSk will only be available in Europe?
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Just wanted to say thanks back for this raid. Very well run sir. My team was wonderful and special kudos to our team leader Dark catfight who was perfect for the job. I'll be there early in the future cause I have a feeling the teams and zone will fill quickly!
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Mission Computer functionality? After years? I'll believe it when I see it. Just sayin'
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Quote:I've come to agree with this... the hard way... but I still like to complain someOriginally Posted by Sidhe_Blade
Hey some love is better than no love at all...I will take anything that I can get and not complain.
After a couple of years "in the trenches" on primarily this one issue (why I thought I could make CoX better by focusing on bases I'll never know), I find myself mostly "laughing so I don't cry" if you know what I mean.
I'm embarassed to say there was a point where setbacks or the lack of progress actually started to affect my physical and mental health. (Can you believe it? Bases in a game I'm supposed to be enjoying? How screwed up is that?).
So rather than go on blood pressure meds the rest of my life I decided to get my priorities straight. Now I'm convinced your philosophy is far better than my old approach.
Oh yeah, vote Turbo_Starr for community rep! -
War Witch (Lead Designer) recently made some base related comments
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=213333.
My impressions:
(1) Any news about base related development is good news. Nice to hear she has an interest in bases and that they look good.
(2) Looks like an incremental improvement approach to the existing base editor rather than complete overhaul in the near term.
(3) Decorators should be pleased with new "freedom", textures, items, and even themes.
(4) Looks like another attempt at base raids is in the works. Interesting caveat concerning possible system limitations.
(5) Disappointed about not hearing more on the functional side (NPC's or anything else that might "do more stuff" in bases.).
(6) Disappointed that base storage wasn't mentioned (several people asked her about it).
What did you think about her comments? -
Quote:Yes indeed. Well said. I agree completely. I have many other questions (one of them being is Sunstorm still around... his name is white not red on forum don't cha know?).Originally Posted by Starcloud
Thank you, Castle.
This is the kind of communication that I, as a player, have never ever gotten from any other development team of any other MMORPG that I have ever played.
This kind of openness and willingness to talk about things going on behind the scenes is refreshing, amazing, and very very very welcome. I dare say that it is practically unique among the industry, and it is the reason I consider City of Heroes to be the best MMORPG with the best community and the best development team ever.
But I won't push my luck here.
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Dear Devs:
"The things you think are useless, I can't understand." - Steely Dan, Reelin' in the Years
Unless you have something else planned (the eternal hope that never seems to come true), I17 is just another example of base item utility headed in the completey wrong direction. -
If I am a winner, I permit NC Interactive, Inc. and NCsoft Europe Limited to use my name, likeness, photograph, hometown, and any comments that I may make about myself or this contest that I provide for advertising and promotional activities. I also certify that I am at least 13 years of age and am eligible to participate in this contest.
"The last of three Outcasts prepares to complete the 'hair on fire' ritual." -
Quote:Brilliant retort that if poster feels regen is overpowered poster should create regen characters.Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
DEMAND for nerf to regen again.
Random comment not related to OP -
Inaccurate six plus year CoX historical recap.
Misapplied real world analogy.
Obtuse reference to an outdated dev comment on another subject.
Blind speculation promoting the least likely outcome.
Smug, self-satisfied closing line. -
Quote:Demand for crimson moniker to immediately respond in this forum to an unrelated issue!Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Short clarification that statement being attributed to self was never actually said by self but instead inferred from another unrelated statement made by another redname.
Snarky comment. -
Quote:True, reflectivity is a part of Ultra Mode (see yourself in windows, water, etc.). Unknown if any present or future base items will reflect.Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
Reflectivity is supposed to be part of the Ultra Mode update, however. Hopefully we'll see a mirror or three after that in the editor.
I believe you are referring to shadowing (changes in shadows with time of day). It's been confirmed that this effect does not occur in indoor missions or bases.Quote:Originally Posted by IronbladeI think Ultra Mode adds several effects and they said ONE of them would not function in bases.
BTW, I hate to be an alarmist here but... we really don't know what Ultra Mode is going to do in say a largely "stacked" base. It could be anything from: "Wow this is fantastic!" to: "Ugh, shut it off when inside a base." -
I'm for anything that makes bases more fun and functional including this.
As Ironblade mentioned, it has been suggested before (and it was a good idea then too).
What base overhaul?