Let's Get Functional Redux

Since resurrecting the old seems very much in vogue these days, I figure it's ok to knock my forum rep down a few pegs with one of my old, less popular to many, arguments.

Here it is: I hope that the base construction forum does not morph into merely "Home and Garden" magazine. It's not that I don't admire and respect what base builders do (and the idea that people showcase stuff to share ideas is a good thing). It just seems to me though that opulence begets opulence and elitism begets elitism. My desire is not to put people down for their effort and creativity (hey if you want to build museum quality rooms based soley on the works of our "best" base designers, that is your business.). My fear is though that the voice of the elitist base designer will dominate the scene; especially when it comes to what happens next with precious new development (if we do receive new development). There are other voices...even if they mostly don't appear regularly here.

This really isn't the fault of players. Many large sg's have tons of prestige and nothing of functional value to spend it on. I find it sad though that there isn't more of an overall outcry to make the base experience better for the "rank and file" sg member. That is "our fault". I was encourged recently that NPC's (ones that may actually do something) and personal apartments actually made into the usual mix of ("I want moar stuff so I can build moar fluff") recently requested items. That's a good sign.

My view is... let's get functional first devs. For starters, let's make putting everything you can do in terms of in game support (tailor, trainer, WW/BM, hero corps/fateweaver, merit vendor, TF/SF, AE, etc.) in bases a priority. Let's green light those personal apartments to give others a chance at the building experience AND the sg experience. Let's go the route of encouraging more sg/vg participation with bases being the hub of such activity.

Like I said, it's an old argument. Nothing new here. I just didn't want the concept to get lost in the shuffle while going through page after page of everyone's latest and greatest artistic creation... and calls for the elite to be able to do more. There are other issues and points of view.

Why would you use rep for that? lol


I tend to agree with you. We used to have meetings every week in our base and before that we would meet on the roof top.

As for functionality, maybe if we get a danger room type of AE/PvP arena deal that would cause another reason to be in the base.




But yes I do submit entrance into home and garden too

Nothing wrong with any of your points, really. Base building is no different than any other niche in this game, and the outspoken/skilled tend to dominate the conversation.

Personally, I would love way more functionality for bases. I also want more decorative tools. It seems to me that we could have had all this by now with not necessarily a large portion of developer effort. Is it really that tough to import a lot of the decorative objects available in the game already?

I think that, if they had continued to develop bases beyond the PvP aspects (which no matter what anyone says, was always going to appeal to a minority of the playerbase), then perhaps there would have been more interest in bases overall. Adding tailors, danger rooms, and market interface options to bases would certainly put more interest in bases into the hands of the average player. As they are now, bases are just storage and teleporter hubs, and the travel aspect has been diminished over time due to other options.

The "apartment" option would also allow players to have their own decorative spaces without exposing supergroups to the danger of giving edit priviledges to those that could abuse it.

Allow me to play devil's advocate for just a moment in regards to the "elitist being heard more than the rank and file types."

Whether your base is cram packed with tricked out deco or the base is nothing more than an entrance and a storage workshop, you pay the same per month as anyone else. *If* the devs are going to listen to anyone, they'll listen to the more outspoken, as CaptA said. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, in most cases. And the ones that squeak most here are the ones that take their base seriously enough to show it off and talk about all the stuff they want to design. Typically, the folks who don't care much about their base because there is no functionality aren't the ones here asking for it. Of course there are exceptions and I'm speaking in generalized terms. But everything else you said is golden and spot on.

/no flame war

/moar functionality please

I agree that functionality should not be sacrificed for the "low hanging fruit" of decorative items.

Decorative items would be a nice little "tide me over" for a little while, but I would hate to see that turn into the be all/end all for bases when they have the potential to be so much more.

And I agree that bringing back raids is only going to appeal to a minority here. Not dissing our PvP brothers & sisters, but as far as development goes, there could be more functionality for everyone.

Unfortunately, one of the reasons that I have not been as active here as I was formally, is because I realized nearly 1 1/2 years ago that bases were not going to be a priority for a while... especially since GR was obviously such a major focus. GR is nearly out, and I have no doubt that focus is already turning to the issues that are already planned out for the rest of the year. Call me a pessimist, but if they're just now asking us for input, we won't see results for a while yet.

Myself and others have been asking for functional and non functional npc's for years now. Many many years. I'd be happy to buy them from the base editor just like any other NPC, or even better use the AE interface to design them, give them a background story and a popup menu text when clicked on.

Functional ones I'd love be able to create using the AE interface.

• Tailor
• Fateweaver type
• Store to sell to
• Store to buy Insp from
• Trainer for leveling / Respeccing
• Market
• AE Employee
• PvP arena interface npc & arena match item.

• One who just stands around. Perhaps cycles through emotes that are ticked off of a window with set variables like when clicked or approached.
• One who paces around a room.
• One who paces/wanders/patrols around a base.
• Being able to set a group to patrol/wander around a base (using ae interface for group creation).
• Ones who sit or lay down on furniture/items in the base. (place invisible marker and set marker with some sort of interact trigger. NPC then uses marker and follows the set interaction such as sit/lay)

• Create a Supergroup and gain a prestige grant of 200,000 (enough for oversite + room or two w/item and decoration.
• Jump from oversite center reduced. You go from 75k (oversite room + combo unit) to needing 375k (450k - selling the oversite+combo) as it is now.
  • Upgraded combo unit (can only have 1 combo unit of any type) Cost 75k ~ 200 energy, 125 control.
  • Add in Greater Magic Axis/Large Mainframe. cost 125k consume 100 energy gives 200 control
  • Change Magic Axis/Mainframe. to consume 50 energy, give 100 control
    Add in Simple Generator/Small Power Crystal. cost 125k gives 500 energy & 2 aux connections.

1. oversite center + combo unit = 75k (125 energy, 75 control)
2. oversite center + upgraded combo unit = 125k (200 energy, 125 control)
3. control room + magic axis + energy room + simple energy generator (sell oversite & upgraded combo unit) = 250k (500 energy, 100 control)
4. control room + greater magic axis + energy room + simple generator = 375k (500 energy, 200 control)
5. control room + greater magic axis + energy room + generator = 450k (1000 energy, 200 control), then on to super computers for 500 control.

I think the OP took a slight dig at me, since I was the one with the Museum idea. This also makes me wonder if "Elitist" was meant as a dig as well.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Either way, it brings up some good points as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeannie Myself and others have been asking for functional and non functional npc's for years now. Many many years. I'd be happy to buy them from the base editor just like any other NPC, or even better use the AE interface to design them, give them a background story and a popup menu text when clicked on. Functional ones I'd love be able to create using the AE interface. Tailor Fateweaver type Store to sell to Store to buy Insp from Trainer for leveling / Respeccing Market AE Employee PvP arena interface npc & arena match item. Non Functional ones I'd love be able to create using the AE interface. With abilities. One who just stands around. Perhaps cycles through emotes that are ticked off of a window with set variables like when clicked or approached. One who paces around a room. One who paces/wanders/patrols around a base. Being able to set a group to patrol/wander around a base (using ae interface for group creation). Ones who sit or lay down on furniture/items in the base. (place invisible marker and set marker with some sort of interact trigger. NPC then uses marker and follows the set interaction such as sit/lay) I want my base to feel alive and be just like any other part of the city with its evil/good minions/helpers. I'd also like access to the standard critters that are in AE also for the looks with the functional/non functional abilities above. REALLY give bases a kick up! As for functionality on a non npc basis I'd like to see the huge gap between start up base and power/control reduced to be reasonable for the very small supergroup or solo player. Something like... Create a Supergroup and gain a prestige grant of 200,000 (enough for oversite + room or two w/item and decoration. Jump from oversite center reduced. You go from 75k (oversite room + combo unit) to needing 375k (450k - selling the oversite+combo) as it is now. Upgraded combo unit (can only have 1 combo unit of any type) Cost 75k ~ 200 energy, 125 control. Add in Greater Magic Axis/Large Mainframe. cost 125k consume 100 energy gives 200 control Change Magic Axis/Mainframe. to consume 50 energy, give 100 control Add in Simple Generator/Small Power Crystal. cost 125k gives 500 energy & 2 aux connections. Small base upgrade would then be: oversite center + combo unit = 75k (125 energy, 75 control) oversite center + upgraded combo unit = 125k (200 energy, 125 control) control room + magic axis + energy room + simple energy generator (sell oversite & upgraded combo unit) = 250k (500 energy, 100 control) control room + greater magic axis + energy room + simple generator = 375k (500 energy, 200 control) control room + greater magic axis + energy room + generator = 450k (1000 energy, 200 control), then on to super computers for 500 control. This is a much more even step up for any supergroup instead of the gigantic gap there currently is. Side Note: Add 1 more beacon to the single teleporter. One teleportation destination is silly as the room can only hold one teleporter. This too is a huge jump from 1 destination to 4 with a greater cost increase. Base Editing Tools: Really REALLY need an xyz axis movement tool from small increments to large along with a rotational tool to rotate at angles/degrees.

OTHER UPGRADES:
I was sitting here thinking...what would make a base fun? Well, basically it's an SG-wide spawnable zone, so we'd can make use of that.

Aside from the functionality issues, I think about comic books and how bases are used in them. I would love to see more decorative items like in the comics.

Another thing that Comics have are base raids. I'm not talking about PVP, I'm talking about the common, everyday criminal NPC group or such. And realizing this, I got to thinking.

What if they gave us a trimmed-down version of the Mission Architect that allowed us to design custom villains that would randomly spawn throughout the bases. The spawns could be handled just like the rikti invasion or the halloween spawns...where they are about the same level as the players fighting them.

I think this could make for some fun times.

Another thing I would add:
Arena Rooms - Various-sized rooms where PVP is permitted...but only in the rooms, and these rooms adhere to the old pathing rules. That way, people could still PVP in bases.

Another option would be an arena interface in the bases as well.

Decorative items:
Simple building blocks, various sizes. Horizontal, verticle and diagnal water.

Apply texture to items

Expandable stairs (click and drag, or digitally entered heights)

Last post from me here (promise).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenous33 Thats fine, we have a serious base related discussion, but there are many ways of bringing one about without touching on nerves.

Good can we get back to that discussion then rather than me touching nerves?

Quote:

I will say you had and have some good and valid points, but I fail to see why pushing peoples buttons was needed.

Again with the buttons/nerves. Tell ya what. If it wakes people up and moves this entire base development issue off the dime I can live with being blunt.

Quote:

This community (the base builders) is one of the most friendly, down to earth and helpful group there is, and to be honest over the last year I have not met one elitest out there...

True on the friendly etc. part. Think "mad skillz" when equating elite if you prefer. Turbo has proven to be an elite base builder. [Edit add: So regardless of what I meant by "elite" my points were valid. Given a limited resources environment, do we focus new development first... on making life for the Turbo's of the game better?... or Joe Schmo the lowest rung on an sg who has never seen a base editor life in a base better?] And look what friendly has gotten us over the years.

Quote:

I almost view base building as a bit of a dieing art/hobby/interest. Our community is small, yet loyal.

Too bad. So sad. Give everyone in the game an apartment and we'll be big and cool. Make bases do more and it'll add real value (and we'll be big and cool).

Quote:

It is true we all feel a bit shunned by the lack of attention from the Dev's, but at least now we have a go between with them with Tubro.

Been there. Done that and literally got the t-shirt. There once was this guy named Fire_Away. He volunteered to be a rep for all the players at Hero Con. He had a good handle on all the issues related to bases. He was on his best behavior. He spoke with many devs personally and was told many things (some of which I repeated elsewhere, some of which I cannot repeat). That was last October. Since then our dev rep for bases has flown the coop I believe (can't confirm, communications lockdown). Good luck Turbo. Hope you don't end up feeling like a pawn/smokescreen between the devs and the players. I know a guy who did. From now on, I'm speaking my mind.

Quote:

Who has already started a thread to gather new and fresh idea's we can bring to the table.

Oh, come on! Point out a fresh idea that has not been brought to the table before please.

Quote:

We need to continue to keep vigilent, keep our voices heard and work together to improve both function and fluff.

Sounds good. When does the "function" part start? Cause I mostly ain't seeing it

Quote:

In the end when it comes to bases, we all can get what we want.

Five year vet here. Been waiting (and yes sometimes carping) for some stuff for bases for years. Despite it all, still trying to push this in the right direction (and still catching flack for it). I'm cool with it.

I actually appreciate your concillatory tone. I hope you can appreciate where I am coming from.

C ya gang! (Loved the pic Pyber)

I listed functional things. what more do you want? what other things have you listed outside of your original post on base functionality?

pvp? been covered
npc that do ingame functions? been covered
base raids? been covered

what's left outside of better tools to do what the editor does and that's been covered too It's all suggestions from people on things they'd like to see. Much of that will fall into the "pretty base" category because that's pretty much what the base editor does. It lets you make a place your sg can hang out and used to allow base raids and that's it.

I have participated in, and started Base Functionallity Threads on many occasions. While I agree that it generally degrades into what you are calling "Fluff" (AKA Decorating), I think Decorating is here to stay. I myself have several highly stacked rooms, and while I'm no Top-Notch Stacker, I am proud of what I've accomplished.

Should it replace Functionallity, and the whole point of an SG in the first place? No.

I think the problem is this; Many of us over the years have created so many lists so many different times and they have all been ignored. Alot of the peeps that used to regularly frequent this Forum in the first year or two since I joined it rarely comment now. They still monitor the Forum, but don't comment. Like myself.

Why is this?

Because Thread after Thread of "I built this!" lost it's granduer a long time ago.

Perhaps some have given up hope that the Devs will EVER do anything constructive for Bases.

I don't know, you tell me.

I do think that Functionallity should be the Primary Focus of Base Development. The Base needs to have more to offer SG Members, so that it is not just a storage house.

However, as I said before, Decorating is here to stay. It should be considered in any such list as well. It should be a secondary Focus to Functionallity though.

Black

I suggest they Develop new SG Badges, that the SG Members have to earn to get the following:

WW/BM Iterface
Cimerora TP
Difficulty Interface (Fateweaver)
A Vendor, that buys and sells Insps, and buys Recipes and Salvage.
A Trainer for leveling/Respecing
AE Interface
Danger Room
NPC Raid AE

With this idea, they will add all this stuff to the Bases.

However, They will also reinforce what Bases were originally meant to be by causing the Members to have to work together to accomplish getting the upgrades. That way everyone is a part of the action. Not just the Base Editor.

Black

My guess is that whatever is going to be done to bases will be done with the least amount of developer resources tied up and the fastest turnaround, due to bases being such a small part of the game and seemingly not working the way the developers thought they would.

So any major programming changes are probably not going to happen. Full on new task forces that require fully created new missions/art/critters/scripting is also unlikely to happen.

What will most likely happen is "fluff additions" as they take the least developer resources to create, assuming that ingame objects are cleaned up to work in the base editor and that Jay's assistant or someone else has time to do that.

Preset npc's or perhaps using the AE to create them with a basic functionality also may be low developer resources as the AE interface already works and the code of course exists already for stores/etc.. That kind of thing may not take up much of Pohsyb's time or one of his helpers.

I'd like to see a full issue devoted to bases myself with full resources going into base overhauls.