Finduilas
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Posts
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Quote:No idea where you get the idea that CoD "isn't stealthy". It has the same level of stealth as the power Stealth, the various stealth IOs, and Super Speed. It's not Invisibility, but that doesn't mean it isn't handy, especially if combined with a stealth IO. It also has no movement penalty and unsuppressable defense--the same amount as Weave.Originally Posted by je_saist
it's one of the more pointless powers of the dark armor set, yes.
As a stealth on it's own, it's not actually that stealthy. It has about the same stealth properties of super-speed. You'd actually need to either take super-speed (bad idea) or a pool power stealth in order to get it to a point where it's useful to walk around un-noticed. Super Speed is a bad idea since dark armor lacks knockback protection... and if you can afford IO's, combat jumping is a better proc holder for knockback procs... and if you can't afford IO's, there's acrobatics in the Super Jump set.
As a defensive power, it's lousy too. Yes, it makes a good proc base for Luck of the Gamber... but you are only gaining 5% base defense, and there's no defense debuff resistance in the Dark Set. So even if you take Weave and work the IO's to softcap, all it's going to take is just one defense debuff attack to get through, and poof, no more defense. If you don't take weave, or you don't work the IO's, your defense will be at 0% most of the time anyways if you run CoD.
Using your rationale that CoD is worthless because Dark has no debuff resistance would argue against adding *any* defense to DA or FA or Electric or any all-resist set, which is completely contrary to the experience of the many players who have done just that, me included.
To the OP; Rangle's got it right. CoD doesn't hurt aggro since DA has plenty of aggro-generating powers. It has some +perception, which is useful, provides immob protection if you don't want to take CJ, and has the same amount of defense as Weave. I'd say it's a must-have for a player that's not taking CJ or is looking to add some defense to their build. -
Quote:That should be doable, depending on your definition of 'great defense'. Soft-capping a set like FA that doesn't have any defense of its own is a challenge unless you are willing to make sacrifices in other areas and spend a large amount of influence, but 25-30% defense is certainly achievable and will add a lot of survivability.Originally Posted by Postagulous
Wow, thanks.
Man, I've got homework to do now.
What I feel that I am trying to work toward with my bonuses and slotting is an accurate toon with great defense and good damage that operates with no endurance problems and has some recharge boost, in that order.
The first choice you should make is whether you want to work on typed or positional defense and target your build in that way. Personally, I prefer typed because the bonuses require fewer slots and you can get away with just concentrating on S/L and E/NE, but positional is certainly a viable option too. -
Seeing Maneuvers in this build was a red flag for me--there's no way that a Shield tank should have to resort to taking such a high-end, low-utility toggle for its defense bonus; it's far too easy to soft-cap without it, especially if you're taking Weave.
I'm going to echo what Rangle has said about your defense/resist powers, in general they need no more than four slots and around 40% end reduction. In Shields, Deflection and True Grit are the exception to that general rule, since they provide resistance as well as defense/health, so they should be six-slotted. I'd slot two resist commons in Deflection and replace the Steadfast KB with another.
And unless you're planning to stand around looking pretty, you need more attacks than you have. I'd recommend 2-3 more attacks and Build-Up, and one of the attacks should be Combustion; it's a must-have IMO. That means dropping Maneuvers (no big loss) and the epics, most likely.
With your defense powers fully slotted, the Steadfast +def, Weave, and Gaussian's 6-slotted in BU, you'll be within a few percentage points of soft-capping all positions. Just one or two set bonuses for each position will get you there. As Rangle mentioned, ToD is a good choice for melee defense, Mako's Bite and Blessing of the Zephyr for Ranged, and Scirocco's Dervish for AoE. -
Quote:I've seen recharge suggested as a focus for a Dark tank before, and it's always confused me. The base recharge for Dark Regen is 30 seconds, how much more frequently will a fully-slotted out tank need to heal up to full?Originally Posted by Justaris
Findulias covered things pretty well, so I'll just add a few tidbits on top of that. With Dark Regeneration you'll be able to completely heal yourself every time it's up, so a focus on +recharge works nicely for this kind of Tanker, especially if you manage to get your hands on a Theft of Essence: +end proc which greatly helps with the endurance cost for Dark Regen. How much endurance recovery and +end you really need depends very much on your build. I'd also add that +regeneration isn't all that great for a Dark since you'll be healing yourself to full routinely anyway, though +HP is still nice to have.
I'm not against slotting for recharge bonuses, but without making a special effort DR's recharge on my Dark tank is 17 seconds, and I almost never run into situations where I need to use it again before it recharges. -
The first thing I noticed is that your shields are *very* poorly slotted. Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, Tough and Weave should all be slotted close to 56% resist/defense and around 40% endurance reduction. Additional endurance reduction gains you very little, and replacing res/def with end reduction is a bad bargain. You'd be much better off just four slotting with a set you like (skipping the End and End/Rchg IOs) than frankenslotting as you have here.
Blazing Aura, on the other hand, needs plenty of end reduction; I'd aim for around 60% or higher.
Are you slotting the Oblits for the defense bonus or for the recharge? Oblits are aren't a particularly good choice if you're looking for typed defense, and although they've got plenty of recharge, the set has almost no end reduction. So I'd swap out the Oblits in Thunderstrike for some other set; having two attacks slotted like that is going to kill your end bar.
If you're going for defense bonuses--it's really hard to tell from this build--you could be doing a lot more than you are now. Slotting Erads in Thunder Strike and Thunderstrikes in your ranged attacks would add a significant amount of additional E/NE defense. And slotting Mocking Beratement or Perfect Zinger in Taunt would add some needed S/L defense.
EDIT: Instead of a Acc common as the fifth slot for those Smashing Haymaker sets, try a Acc/Dam/End or Acc/Dam/Rchg so they're fully slotted for both accuracy and damage. -
As Postagulous mentioned, besides needing KB protection, endurance recovery is a big concern.
Specifically, since the three main Dark shields, Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud and Obsidian Shield have a very low endurance cost they're much less of a issue than 1) making sure your attacks are well slotted for end reduction, and 2) that the 'big three' end eaters in the Dark set (Dark Regen, Death Shroud, and Cloak of Fear) are *very* well slotted for endurance reduction. Slotting for +end and +recovery bonuses is also a good idea, as are epics like Conserve Power and Physical Perfection.
Immob protection for Dark is available in the stealth shield, Cloak of Darkness, so be sure to pick up CJ for its immob protection if you decide not to take CoD. Keep in mind though, that fully slotted CoD provides as much defense as Weave, so if you opt for a defense build getting CoD is a good idea.
Dark has a little less than 50% S/L resistance with DE fully slotted, so many Dark players get Tough to boost that a bit.
Since FM provides little additional damage mitigation, I strongly encourage you to pick up either Cloak of Fear or Op Gloom, since either will effectively take minions out of the picture. CoF uses Fear and Op Gloom uses stuns, but otherwise they're similar in the amount of damage mitigation they provide. One big difference between the two is that CoF has a very high endurance cost and needs several slots to be most effective, where OG is dead cheap, end-wise, and can be left at the base slot if necessary.
End recovery, +end, and defense are probably the best set bonuses to shoot for, IMO. Recharge is also good, but not as helpful as it would be for a set like Shields that has a mac-daddy attack, or one with a long recharge heal--Dark Regen's base recharge is 30 seconds. I focused on typed defense for my Dark/Mace since Dark has significantly lower Energy resists than any other type, and I was able to get my Energy defense up pretty high to compensate.
Hope that helps! -
Quote:I'm glad you like the build, but I want to point out to the OP that Touch of Death and Scirocco's Dervish are not particularly great choices for an Invul tank since they give primarily positional defense, not typed. There are other choices that would give better bonuses.Originally Posted by Biospark
Just wanted to mention again that the build is not mine. I wish I could remember who posted it so I can give them the credits, but I liked the build enough to save it for my INV/SS character (whenever I can get around to playing him more).
Also, though I understand it's for set bonus, given that Invul doesn't need KB protection, using the BotZ -KB IO is a very expensive way to get a rather small F/C def bonus. -
Quote:Ahh, that explains it. It never occured to me that he was referring to the fact that the Kinetic Combat enhances damage; since it's a melee attack set that's hardly a distinguishing characteristic.Originally Posted by Honbrid
Kinetic Combat, as a Melee Damage set, contains Damage as well as chance to knockback in the IOs themselves, although not in the set bonuses. That said, it doesn't really have anything to do with this discussion about knockback protection, and I can only assume there was confusion about the meaning of KC as an abbreviation.
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Quote:Not sure what you're talking about, since neither Kinetic Combat or Kinetic Crash (which is what we were talking about) has damage set bonus.Originally Posted by tanstaafl
Kinectic combat has +damage & is my fav set for my ranged characters.
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Quote:There may not be any for that character, but believe me, for a melée character with a heal that relies on proximity to foes to work, KB is definitely A Bad Thing. It's also pretty much impossible to slot attacks fully for damage if you're using four slots from a KB set.Originally Posted by Willowpaw
My Plants/Energy Dom is working on getting 5 complete 6 piece sets slotted, for the recharge, and so far, I have not seen any drawbacks to these. Then again, with his pet plant, vines, and other stuff, when he goes into battle, it is total carnage. So if there are drawbacks, I just haven't been able to notice.
Besides, Mace tanks lobbied long and hard to get the set improved, and getting rid of the KB was one of the improvements. I'm sure as heck not going to slot it back in! -
Quote:Definitely one of those YMMV things; using 4 slots from a KB set is the last thing I'd consider for my Dark/Mace tank.Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
My Psi/Mental blaster runs two full sets of those. 6pts KB protection AND 15% recharge bonus. Yum.
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All three of the KB protection IOs provide mag 4 protection to KB. The difference is where you can slot them and what other bonuses the set can provide. If I were to guess, I'd say that the Steadfast IO is more readily available because fewer players have a damage resistance power to slot one in. Travel and defense powers are readily available through the power pools, but AFAIK the only way to get a resist damage power is to have one in your primary or secondary or by taking Tough from the Fighting Pool.
So by all means, if you don't need or want the BotZ defense bonuses, buy the cheapest KB protection IO that you can slot.
By the way, the Kinetic Crash KB set also gives KB protection as a 4-slot bonus, but that's only mag 3 protection. (Plus the fact that it's in a KB set, which many players can't or prefer not to use.) -
All of your toggles and most of your attacks are well slotted for end reduction, so you should be okay. One thing that *could* cause a problem is if you start spamming Shield Charge; the Oblit set is very high in recharge but very low in end reduction.
One thing you might want to consider to boost your endurance and recovery is to swap out one of the LotG sets for Gift of the Ancients, which has both +end and +recovery bonuses with four slots. Or you could use Imperv Armor instead of Titanium Coating in Tough, though to get the most benefit out of it you'd probably want to find a fourth slot for it.
The Kismet +Acc will give you the ToHit bonus, not your teammates; that's what it's designed to do. However, it's a "proc 120" like the regen/recovery uniques, so you want it in a passive or a toggle you use all the time to get the most benefit out of it. A click power like Grant Cover is the worst choice for it, put it in Phalanx Fighting instead.
By the way, I do think you'd be better off taking your three Mace PBAoE as soon as they're available. Crowd Control in particular is a great attack with tons of damage mitigation, so I'd take it ASAP and delay the Fighting Pool if necessary. -
Foot Stomp at 49 and single-slotted? Even with a Hami, that's close to criminal, Foot Stomp is the best attack in the set! Besides, slotting with Eradication, it provides some nice E/NE defense, which is the type you've currently got the least of. You really need to take it at 38 and at least 5 slot it.
The Hami-O's in TH, Weave and Maneuvers are doing nothing for you (In Tough Hide, literally nothing except adding a tenth of a percent of defense.) Those three slots can be used for Foot Stomp. Similarly, you can take the 5th Aegis slot out of RPD and Tough or the -KB BotZ out of CJ an SJ and use them for Foot Stomp. (Personally, I'd do both, especially because you don't need additional KB protection, but it's your influence.) I'd also put a slot in the attacks slotted with Kinetic Combat, if possible.
Here's your build with the changes I mentioned; I left the BotZ KB prot in SJ so you're still hitting the soft-cap for F/C. The numbers are close to yours, but E/NE defense is higher and Foot Stomp is well slotted:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(15)
Level 2: Resist Physical Damage -- Aegis-Psi/Status:50(A), Aegis-ResDam:50(5), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(7), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7)
Level 4: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-Heal:50(15), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(29), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(48)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(11), Zephyr-Travel:50(13), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(13)
Level 12: Taunt -- Taunt-I:50(A)
Level 14: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(17), Zephyr-ResKB:50(34)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(19), HO:Enzym(21), HO:Enzym(21)
Level 20: Health -- Mrcl-Heal:40(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx:40(23), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg:40(23)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(25), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(25)
Level 24: Knockout Blow -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), Mako-Dam%:50(34)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(27), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(29)
Level 28: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(43), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(43), GSFC-Build%:50(43)
Level 30: Boxing -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 32: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(33), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(42)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), LkGmblr-Def:50(46)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), RgnTis-Regen+:30(48), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(48), P'Shift-EndMod:50(50), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(50), P'Shift-End%:50(50)
Level 49: Hurl -- HO:Nucle(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
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Set Bonus Totals:- 5.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 5.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 5.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 5.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 5.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 5.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 5.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 5.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 14.3% Defense(Smashing)
- 14.3% Defense(Lethal)
- 12.1% Defense(Fire)
- 12.1% Defense(Cold)
- 14.9% Defense(Energy)
- 14.9% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 10.5% Defense(Melee)
- 18.3% Defense(Ranged)
- 11.8% Defense(AoE)
- 1.8% Max End
- 27% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 42.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 15% FlySpeed
- 372.5 HP (19.9%) HitPoints
- 15% JumpHeight
- 15% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 3.3%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 11%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery
- 50% (3.91 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
- 3% Resistance(Psionic)
- 25% RunSpeed
- 5% XPDebtProtection
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Quote:"Please. I go through *everyone's* trash."Originally Posted by ItsJustJake
What was his response? I forget .. :-)
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Sounds good, glad I could help!
I love the Question quote in your sig, BTW.
But my favorite Question quote is his response to Supergirl when she accuses him of going through her trash.
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Quote:The some of the regen and recovery uniques were fixed because they were working in an unintended manner.Originally Posted by Rokig
Well if that one is getting fixed they will also be looking into the others aswell. But im just speculating.
The Obliteration and Eradication sets won't be fixed because they are working as they are designed to work; as high-recharge, low endurance reduction PBAoE sets. -
Quote:The amount of additional endurance recovery you get from increasing the end reduction from 40% to 60% in a .26 EPS toggle is miniscule. The amount of additional defense you'll get from slotting past the ED cut-off is similarly tiny.Originally Posted by Enots
I already own the all the Hami-Os, the ones in the +def toggles are there to squeeze a litttle more recovery and defense. The resistance based Hami-Os offer me 66% endu reduction, and 40% resistance for 2 slots, if you have a way to get that from IO's please point me to it.
The point with Tough is that you are grossly underslotting it by leaving it at 40% resistance enhancement; it needs another slot, period. Heaven knows 100% end reduction is overkill, but putting another Ribosome Exposure in it would do a lot more for you than the Hami-O's in CoD and Weave. -
Two points:
I don't think it's possible to soft-cap a shield tanker without *some* set bonuses, though granted, you don't need a lot.
Frankenslotting makes a lot of sense for powers like attacks that have many atributes that you want to enhance. For defense/resistance powers that generally have only 2 attributes to enhance, its not nearly so useful. Even though you're officially not worrying about sets until later, I recommend looking at sets for Deflection, BA, Tough, and Weave. About the only thing frankenslotting gets you for those powers is additional endurance reduction, which really isn't needed for a moderate end cost toggle.
Oh, and to answer your question about True Grit, the +HP is extremely useful and adds a lot of surviability at no endurance cost. If you're not slotting sets, I recommend at least 2 Heal commons and 2 resist commons, with Heal the higher priority.
EDIT: forgot to mention that Deflection also needs to be slotted for resistance. I recommend slotting it with 4 defense set IOs of your choice and 2 resist commons. Also, be sure to pick up the Steadfast +Def unique and slot it in Deflection, True Grit or Tough. -
Why don't you put your current build in Mid's and post it here? It's a lot easier for us to make suggestions to improve your build if we can see what you have now.
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What is the goal of this build? You have Weave and the two +Def uniques, but it doesn't look like you're building toward a particular type of defense. If you are trying for defense of some type (positional or typed, for instance) you could do a lot more with this build than have here. If that's not a primary goal, honestly, I'd save that GA +Def for a build that you're trying to soft-cap.
Other issues:
Death Shroud and Dark Regen are underslotted for Accuracy--IME it's important to get DR's acc higher than a normal attack since having it miss can have dire consequences.
The Hami-O's in CoD and Weave aren't doing a thing for you. Save yourself some infamy and replace the Cytos with a LotG Def/End/Rchg.
Tough and Ob Shield are underslotted. If you don't care about Psi resist you can get away with it for Ob Shield, but Tough needs at least another slot. I really don't see the point in slotting Hami-O's if they do less for you than common IOs or a cheap set.
Personally, I think either Cloak of Fear or Op Gloom would be a heck of a lot more useful than Soul Transfer. Unless you're really set on ST, I'd recommend dropping it for one of the mez auras. -
It's a lot easier to see what's going on in builds in Mid's itself, but your link doesn't work and there's no data chunk. If you provide one or the other you're more likely to get some responses.
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Quote:Found it! It was originally mentioned in a post by Sailboat in the Tanker forum, and he referenced this post:Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
If you find the info, link it here. I'd like to see what the data consists of and how it was computed. Maybe that will help me understand your perspective.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...90&postcount=2
Unfortunately, Werner (the author of the post in the link above) doesn't say who compiled the numbers or how. Perhaps if he's still around a PM to him might produce some additional information. -
Rangle, the info you're looking for was posted in the Tanker forum a few weeks/months ago. I don't remember by whom, but it was a thread I was also posting in. If I get a chance, I'll go through my old posts and see if I can find it; unfortunately, the thread name wouldn't help, it was one of the many "rate my build" post in that forum.
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Quote:Taking Conserve Power is fine as a prereq to Physical Perfection, you don't need two.Originally Posted by ItsJustJake
Lots of good points there, thanks.
One major problem with losing Focused Accuracy - without taking it (or something else there) I can't take Physical Perfection (or am I mistaken?), and my End issues never really went away until I took it.