Is there a guide to damage breakdown in the game?
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2010-02-22 16:26 in Player Questions
Any such guide wouldn't be very accurate, since it's entirely dependant on what enemies you fight during your play through the game.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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^ This.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Any such guide wouldn't be very accurate, since it's entirely dependant on what enemies you fight during your play through the game.
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PLUS any guide like that would have to be modified everytime there was a new (or 'old' ie: 5th Column) MOB added to the game or a tweak to MOB Attacks/Defenses, etc. Sometimes it is easier to be near precise than to be right for a while then dreadfully wrong when a new Issue or Patch hits. OCD notwithstanding.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Any such guide wouldn't be very accurate, since it's entirely dependant on what enemies you fight during your play through the game.
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I have to admit my first thought to your comment was "no sh*t Sherlock!".... but then I realized you hadn't really understood my reasoning behind the question.
I spend a majority of my time in the tank forums where we spend a huge amount of time talking about how to best optimize defensive builds. Yes there will be specific enemies that do specific kinds of damage, but I'm not looking for a narrow defined focus. I'm not looking to see what to expect from Carnies, Arachnos, or even Shivans, which all skew the numbers in different directions. I'm looking for generalities. I.E. the game as a whole.
Usually when it comes down to typed defenses the general rule is that you want to focus on S/L first, then E/N, followed by F/C, and finishing with Psi/Toxic, or at least that's what is generally regarded as the correct order. I'd just like more information showing that the reasoning behind these suggestions is true, and how those percentages really fall.
I'm perfectly fine with near precise as I do understand that as factions are introduced or changed up a bit that percentages can change. I'd just like to know what those near precise numbers really are and if anyone has produced them recently.
And Ninus, every new Issue in the game brings change and guides need to be updated to reflect those changes, so how would that be anything different then what already occurs?
Hopefully this doesn't come across snarky, as it certainly isn't my intent. I'm just lookin for better info.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I understood your question perfectly. I'm telling you that you can't get an answer more accurate than "ish", which you already have. Even for the game as a whole. Someone who runs through every single story arc to level up is going to run into a different set of damage types compared to someone who just doest the arcs offered necessary to reach the next level, compared to someone who only uses radio missions, compared to someone who only uses the AE, compared to someone who just teams with their friends in the RWZ. There is simply no remotely accurate answer that you can get. Ever. From anyone. For any character. Period.
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
I have to admit my first thought to your comment was "no sh*t Sherlock!".... but then I realized you hadn't really understood my reasoning behind the question.
I spend a majority of my time in the tank forums where we spend a huge amount of time talking about how to best optimize defensive builds. Yes there will be specific enemies that do specific kinds of damage, but I'm not looking for a narrow defined focus. I'm not looking to see what to expect from Carnies, Arachnos, or even Shivans, which all skew the numbers in different directions. I'm looking for generalities. I.E. the game as a whole. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I believe I recall the post. One of the number crunchers looked at all NPC attacks, put them together, and checked it out. But for the life of me I can't find it.
Attacks with smashing/lethal were high up, of course, followed by fire, energy, and psychic. (Psychic turned out to be pretty common, as carnies/rikti/arachnos throw a lot of it around) negative energy was not unusual,(but not everywhere) ice was kind of uncommon, with toxic rarest.
This from vague memories, however.
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Understood, and that was why I answered as I did. No snark offense taken; I sorta figured you were looking for the info for just such a reason as you have stated, but I point to Fleeting's latest post in answer again. 'Close' is about as good as you can get, and as you describe it; would appear to be all you really need anyway, but here's to you finding better numbers. Good luck.
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
And Ninus, every new Issue in the game brings change and guides need to be updated to reflect those changes, so how would that be anything different then what already occurs?
Hopefully this doesn't come across snarky, as it certainly isn't my intent. I'm just lookin for better info. |
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I understood your question perfectly. I'm telling you that you can't get an answer more accurate than "ish", which you already have. Even for the game as a whole. Someone who runs through every single story arc to level up is going to run into a different set of damage types compared to someone who just doest the arcs offered necessary to reach the next level, compared to someone who only uses radio missions, compared to someone who only uses the AE, compared to someone who just teams with their friends in the RWZ. There is simply no remotely accurate answer that you can get. Ever. From anyone. For any character. Period.
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Uhm... but how close to the BIG picture in the game is my "ish". I could say that you're really looking at 50% of the game being s/l, 25% f/c, 10% e/n, and 5% psi/toxic but have absolutely NOTHING to back that up.
YES, I could spend the entire course of a character's life in the AE fighting Toxic Tarantulas or Carnies, heck why not throw Freakshow into that mix, but that doesn't represent the full picture of the game as A WHOLE....
You're way to busy trying to tell my how some folk may only see certain kinds of trees on their path to 50 while I'm trying to see what the whole forest is made up of.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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And I'm telling you no character will ever see the whole forest, so why bother asking?
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
YES, I could spend the entire course of a character's life in the AE fighting Toxic Tarantulas or Carnies, heck why not throw Freakshow into that mix, but that doesn't represent the full picture of the game as A WHOLE....
You're way to busy trying to tell my how some folk may only see certain kinds of trees on their path to 50 while I'm trying to see what the whole forest is made up of. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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And the OP is saying he doesn't care about a single character experiencing all of the forest, he wants to know what the forest is made of.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
And I'm telling you no character will ever see the whole forest, so why bother asking?
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E.G., take every damaging power in the game that enemies have (ignore AE for the moment, since critters there are extremely mutable). Place a checkmark by a damage type for each of the attacks that do that damage type. Compare list at the end. Ooh and aah about interesting things that, in the grand scheme of things, don't really mean a whole lot.
But it's interesting to know, nonetheless.
No, I am not volunteering to do this, and I am not telling anyone else to do it. But it's an interesting concept, in any case.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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This is exactly my point. Sure, you can go through all of the attack from the various critters and find the percentage of each damage type that is dealt... but critters do not appear throughout the game dispersed evenly.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
things that, in the grand scheme of things, don't really mean a whole lot.
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For an easy example, a villain is going to encounter a LOT more Longbow Guardians than they will encounter Squall Elementals. For a useful statistic, you would have to weight the number of encounters with Longbow Guardians compared to the number of Squall Elementals when calculating their contributions to the damage totals.
But what if the player solos through most of the game on +0/x1, and then runs through Dr. Forrester's "Shut down experiment" mission with an 8-man team? This would change the numbers. What if the villain switches sides after Going Rogue and hangs out in The Storm Palace? Again, the numbers change.
And that's only considering encounters with a given enemy. If you really want to be accurate, you've got to incorporate how often the various powers are used, too. From above, you're probably going to get shot by the Longbow Guardian's pistol more often than you're going to get punched in the face. That would bump up lethal a bit higher with respect to smashing. Then consider recharge (some critters have powers on long timers, or timers so long they'll only be used once per encounter), post-death specials, and DoT patches (which would depend on how long you stand in the patch).
It's a good guess that, for example, smashing and lethal will pop up a considerable amount more than toxic will. But trying to get accurate numbers is like trying to demonstrate that funny bears don't wear pope hats when they're Catholic in the forest.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
FW, you're overthinking this way too much. It's just a fun project thing. There are a ton of fun project things that people do that don't matter. I mean, sheesh, people catalog how many different ships are in the whole Star Trek universe. That certainly doesn't matter! Etc. etc. etc. All the OP wants is a list of "these are all the attacks, this is smashing percentage, this is lethal percentage, etc. etc. etc."
Do try to understand! This isn't for science. This isn't for anything major. This is for fun. This is for curiosity's sake. This isn't a list in order to level off of, not a list to base your character's exact leveling pace/safety off of. Curiosity. Surely you know what that is?
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I just took it as a build thing toward being prepared for all situations. Sure, an invulnerability tank is tough, but if they play a lot of the game, they'll find trying to close their weaker energy/negative energy/psy holes gets more important, the more of the game they play.
It may seem silly on the outset, but when building with IO's it's completely reasonable. You can get 15% damage resistance through IO's to cold/fire easily. But before building toward that, wouldn't it make sense to find out if those are common? Because you could instead go for ranged defense, smashing/lethal defense, or psy defense. (Among many other things)
Sure there are those that build towards a specific situation...like being the awesomest fighter ever vs. Rikti. But does that help you when a buddy invites you to a team fighting council? Or carnies? Or Arachnos?
Basically, softcap your positional defense and you're good against 95% of attacks in the game.
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Yeah. But for things that get a leg up on typed rather than positional defenses, or are strong to all but certain types, it's still a valid question.
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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Basically, softcap your positional defense and you're good against 95% of attacks in the game.
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Positional soft-capping works for Shields and Super Reflexes as that's their primary focus and strength of the sets. |
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Basically, softcap your positional defense and you're good against 95% of attacks in the game.
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It doesn't work as well for Fire, Dark, Ice, Elec, Stone, Inv, nor Willpower as it doesn't lend itself to their strengths which is Typed Defense. You can certainly build towards soft capping a single position with IO's, but you wouldn't be able to hit all 3, and doubtfully 2 of them either.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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If all the OP is looking for is purely academic data regarding how many attacks of each damage type exist in the game, then I'd have to say yes, it is possible for someone to provide an exact answer, providing they have enough time on their hands. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already done this, which may be what the OP remembers seeing before.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Do try to understand! This isn't for science. This isn't for anything major. This is for fun. This is for curiosity's sake. This isn't a list in order to level off of, not a list to base your character's exact leveling pace/safety off of. Curiosity. Surely you know what that is?
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The problem is the way the OP originally presented his request:
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| a breakdown of what percentage chance you'll be attacked by any particular damage type |
You're still missing my point FW.
An example would be this. You're in a large lot of 5000 Mustang Convertibles. In one corner there are 500 Yellow ones in another corner there are 500 Green ones and the rest are Red. You could stand in the Yellow corner and with confidence tell me all the cars are predominately Yellow. Someone else could stand in the Green corner and say no, they're predominately Green. The truth is NEITHER of you would be correct. In that lot it's 80% Red cars, 10% Yellow, 10% Green. On average if you wandered through the parking lot enough times you'd find more Red cars.
I'm looking for the "on average", so please, walk away from the corner with all the "Yellow Convertibles".
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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If you've ever watch the World Series of Poker you'll see that they show the percentage of any given hand's "likely hood" of winning . It's all based on what is known of the full deck and what has already been dealt. Until that number goes to 100% there is still a chance the other player can win, but the ODDS are that the guy with the predominantly larger number is going to win. Doesn't always happen that way, but the percentages say he's more likely to win then the other guy. |
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
If all the OP is looking for is purely academic data regarding how many attacks of each damage type exist in the game, then I'd have to say yes, it is possible for someone to provide an exact answer, providing they have enough time on their hands. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already done this, which may be what the OP remembers seeing before.
The problem is the way the OP originally presented his request: Maybe that's not what he really meant, but it certainly sounds like he's asking for a prediction of what he can reasonably expect to actually encounter during game play. That isn't something anyone can answer with any degree of accuracy, and any attempt to do so would involve a lot of assumptions and guesswork--hence some of the responses. Again, maybe there was just a misunderstanding of what the OP was really asking for, but I had the same reaction when I first read it. |
If I'm trying to give advice to others of how to best build their defenses I'd like to be able to tell them how often they're likely to run into any particular damage type and not be off base. It's "understood" that S/L is the predominant damage type in the game, followed buy E/N, then F/C and finally Psi/Toxic on average. What are those averages, what are the odds?
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Rangle, the info you're looking for was posted in the Tanker forum a few weeks/months ago. I don't remember by whom, but it was a thread I was also posting in. If I get a chance, I'll go through my old posts and see if I can find it; unfortunately, the thread name wouldn't help, it was one of the many "rate my build" post in that forum.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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The number of variables that exist in City of Heroes is of a far, far greater magnitude than the number of variables that exist in a game of poker. A poker deck contains exactly 52 cards. There are 4 suits of 13 cards each. Each suit has cards numbered from 2-10, plus a Jack, Queen, King, and Ace. Each card is unique and represented exactly once in the deck. Nothing the players do can change the makeup of the deck or alter which card will be dealt next. Based on that, it's a relatively simple mathematical calculation to determine the odds.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
If you've ever watch the World Series of Poker you'll see that they show the percentage of any given hand's "likely hood" of winning . It's all based on what is known of the full deck and what has already been dealt. Until that number goes to 100% there is still a chance the other player can win, but the ODDS are that the guy with the predominantly larger number is going to win. Doesn't always happen that way, but the percentages say he's more likely to win then the other guy.
If I'm trying to give advice to others of how to best build their defenses I'd like to be able to tell them how often they're likely to run into any particular damage type and not be off base. It's "understood" that S/L is the predominant damage type in the game, followed buy E/N, then F/C and finally Psi/Toxic on average. What are those averages, what are the odds? |
In City of Heroes, there are literally thousands of mobs. Which types of mobs a player faces depends on a large number of player decisions, including which contacts they speak to, which missions they choose, which origin they pick, who they team with, etc. Also, a certain degree of chance factors into it. Often, mobs do more than one type of damage. Which type of damage they use can be greatly affected by the tactics of the player fighting them. The number of choices and possibilities is staggering
We all know from experience that lethal/smashing is more common by far than toxic/psionic for the average player. But pinning it down to a reliable percentage, while theoretically possible, is, I think, beyond what any players are realistically capable of doing. I think the only way to get something like this would be for the Devs to datamine statistics based on what players actually encounter in real game play. And even then I'm not sure you'd be happy with that, because their data would be skewed by what you might consider aberrant and atypical play (people doing all Shivan missions in AE, to reference an earlier example).
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Thanks Finduilas. I knew the information existed but just hadn't been able to find it.
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
Rangle, the info you're looking for was posted in the Tanker forum a few weeks/months ago. I don't remember by whom, but it was a thread I was also posting in. If I get a chance, I'll go through my old posts and see if I can find it; unfortunately, the thread name wouldn't help, it was one of the many "rate my build" post in that forum.
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Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Both the WSOP and Convertible examples mentioned were simplistic views of what I was talking about, but with both it's still about statistics and laws of average. The game is just a larger bag of numbers. I think you're "thousands" of mobs is a bit of an exaggeration. I suspect you would find somewhere in the range of 500 unique critters in the game, if not less. Certainly mob spawns generated will have variations into the 10's of thousands, but that is a different discussion. |
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
The number of variables that exist in City of Heroes is of a far, far greater magnitude than the number of variables that exist in a game of poker. A poker deck contains exactly 52 cards. There are 4 suits of 13 cards each. Each suit has cards numbered from 2-10, plus a Jack, Queen, King, and Ace. Each card is unique and represented exactly once in the deck. Nothing the players do can change the makeup of the deck or alter which card will be dealt next. Based on that, it's a relatively simple mathematical calculation to determine the odds.
In City of Heroes, there are literally thousands of mobs. Which types of mobs a player faces depends on a large number of player decisions, including which contacts they speak to, which missions they choose, which origin they pick, who they team with, etc. Also, a certain degree of chance factors into it. Often, mobs do more than one type of damage. Which type of damage they use can be greatly affected by the tactics of the player fighting them. The number of choices and possibilities is staggering We all know from experience that lethal/smashing is more common by far than toxic/psionic for the average player. But pinning it down to a reliable percentage, while theoretically possible, is, I think, beyond what any players are realistically capable of doing. I think the only way to get something like this would be for the Devs to datamine statistics based on what players actually encounter in real game play. And even then I'm not sure you'd be happy with that, because their data would be skewed by what you might consider aberrant and atypical play (people doing all Shivan missions in AE, to reference an earlier example). |
The information I'm looking for has already been put together and has already been posted on the forums. I'm just looking for a link to that information. If you can provide that link, great. If not, no worries.
You still don't get my perspective and I don't believe there is anything I can do to alter that. So I'm going to stop trying to explain it.
You may not understand how or why the information has any merit to anyone, but for some of us it does. Simple as that.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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If you find the info, link it here. I'd like to see what the data consists of and how it was computed. Maybe that will help me understand your perspective.
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
The information I'm looking for has already been put together and has already been posted on the forums. I'm just looking for a link to that information. If you can provide that link, great. If not, no worries.
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Found it! It was originally mentioned in a post by Sailboat in the Tanker forum, and he referenced this post:|
Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
If you find the info, link it here. I'd like to see what the data consists of and how it was computed. Maybe that will help me understand your perspective.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...90&postcount=2
Unfortunately, Werner (the author of the post in the link above) doesn't say who compiled the numbers or how. Perhaps if he's still around a PM to him might produce some additional information.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
At one point I thought I recalled reading a breakdown of what percentage chance you'll be attacked by any particular damage type, with Smashing/Lethal being the predominant one.
, are the correct numbers so that I don't feel like I'm talking out of my posterior.
If I recall correctly the percentages were something like s/l- 70%, e/nrg- 20%, f/c- 16%, psi/toxic- 4% ish.
But, I don't like the "ishness" to those numbers. I want to make sure that the numbers that I vaguely recall... and I do mean vaguely
Can anyone point me to the correct information/guide? My search fu has been weak in finding such info. Thanks.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!