Faultline_EU

Gratz again to you both. Been fun teaming and getting to see you ding.

Quoting the formula from that post of States

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(Base To Hit + To Hit Buffs - (To Hit Debuffs * Combat Mod) – Defense) capped at 5% or 95% * Accuracy (capped at 5% or 95%, again)

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Where Accuracy = rank modifier * level modifier * weapon modifier

The base To Hit is always 50% from what I've read. Ignoring any to hit debuffs/buffs means you get

Base To Hit – Defense capped at 5% or 95%

Anything over 45% will still give a 5% value as it's capped. Then the accuracy modifier is applied. As you said Max, To Hit buffs will change this and higher defence will be needed to counter those buffs. I'd forgotten that. I don't know how many mobs have To Hit buffs tho? Nemesis with Vengance and DE with those crystal things are a couple that spring to mind. In the majority of cases, defence over 45% is not helping at all I think.

Or I'm quite happy to be proven wrong as I'm not exactly an expert.

I have the earth mastery set. I use Stone Prison and Fossilize from that. Stone prison is quite handy for keeping AV's in place whilst kiting them or for catching an Lt that's trying to run off. Fossilze is my fave tho. Can perma hold a sapper, take an Lt out the fight or when stacked, hold a boss or an AV.

Stalagmites just didn't do enough for me. Not much damage, the stun is minimal and I can use taunt for catching straying mobs. Salt crystals seemed a little pointless as mudpots would likely wake them all up anyway....

I thought the changes with I7 meant that anything over 45% defence was pointless anyway?

Had stamina but dropped it to let me pick up more powers. I use Conserve and with Hasten it can be up 2/3 of the time. When it's not up then yeah, you can have real problems, even with end red slotted on all the attacks. On the other hand when you hit hasten and conserve energy, you can lay some serious damage out in human form with no end problems.

I'm also tri form so can switch if I get low during the times conserve energy is not on too. A more erratic style but I found it more fun. Thing is, currently someone is usually buffing with RA or something all the time in the teams I get so I never even need conserve running.

Does thinking you are able to do anything because of all the cool powers you have and then faceplanting instantly count as a trick? I do that one a lot if so.

"Never fear silly blaster who has run off on his own and aggroed a whole spawn - I'll save you! I'll simply AoE in Nova, then tank in dwarf for a mo, then maybe go lightform and then use Dawn Strike and th.... oh. Rez anyone?"

Powers same as everyone else at 41, 44, 47 and 49 but no EPP options.

I remember teaming with a blaster (whose name I've forgotten) many, many months ago who liked to stay permanantly at the debt cap. Whereas most people tell you how much xp tnl, he'd moan about only have 200K debt and promptly run off and get himself killed - usually to a big shout of "Yay!!". He never did it when the team was in danger tho, only when we were taking a breather between groups (although he didn't mind getting himself killed to save the team). He was good to team with and had reached 50 last time I saw him.

But then there was the blaster a few weeks back who finally turned up half way through a mission I was on. The mobs were +6 to him but he didn't ask for an sk, just turned on whirlwind and charged into the banished pantheon group we were getting ready to attack. He lasted about 2 seconds. I finally rezzed him (no hurry), we moved to the next group and he did exactly the same! Then he quit and logged whilst faceplanted without ever saying one word to the team the whole time he was there. I'll admit to laughing quite a lot at his misfortune...

You don't say what level you are currently or how you prefer to play (tri, nova/human mostly, PvP build etc..). I would say at first glance your slots seem a little off tho...

I'm no expert on the leadership pool but I don't think Tactics will actually make up for not having acc enh in any attack, and it definitely won't whilst in Nova or Dwarf form. The whole leadship pool may be worth a rethink.

Having enough slots being such a problem for Khelds means I've always tried to use them in the most effecient places. Five in Energy Flight for instance? The two end mods in Nova may be better placed as end rec on the Nova AoE instead. I don't think you need an end mod in LF either, especially as you may well be running Conserve Energy at the time. Unless you plan on dying lots, the two slots in Restore Essence might be better placed elsewhere. I would be tempted to try and get Reform Essence in too, the heal is very nice when you need it.

Just my initial thoughts anyway.

In case people haven't seen this post on the US boards by Circeus.
Link

Linky

I did wonder why Tar Patch said it was -dmg on the hero planner but wasn't when I tested. The multiplier is 1.3 it seems.

Rounding up...

I did some more tests for fearsome stare and found that there is a to hit debuff for those that are affected by the fear (very dull tests of fear it, shoot it, hope it attacks back etc..). A small test against Council gave me a figure of about 7-11% (it was only a small test). Against Tuatha and Fir Bolg the figure was closer to 30%. Very odd...

As the damage debuff changes for level I've put the figures for DN and TG below.

Darkest Night
0 - 37.5%
+1 - 33.75%
+2 - 30%
+3 - 24.375%
+4 - 18%
+5 - 11.25

Twilight Grasp
0 - 12.5%
+1 - 11.25%
+2 - 10%
+3 - 8.125%
+4 - 6%
+5 - 3.75%

The human form versions of the nova attacks are generally shorter ranged, use more end and are less powerfull. But as someone said, if you don't like squid then drop it.

More tests done and some interesting results (with correct terminology).

Twilight Grasp

Damage Debuff - 12.5%
To Hit Debuff - 5-6%
Debuff Duration - 20 seconds
Heal - 23.5% of base hp

As TG is not auto-hit there is some inaccuracy for the to hit debuff. The figure I got was 16% (100 attacks as the sample size) and I'm fairly sure that is triple stacked so the 5% debuff seems most likely. Using hasten and running DN too, I couldn't seem to debuff the damage above 75%. I seem to remember defenders damage res cap is 75% so this could be the debuff cap too?

With TG triple stacked, an even level minion showed no hp regen at all.

Shadow Fall

Damage Resistance - 23.6%
Defence (ranged) - 0%

The sample size for the defense test was 164 ranged attacks. There were 83 hits. This really suggests there is zero ranged defence. A very brief test suggests the same for melee.

Fearsome Stare

I have FS down as 20 seconds duration and 40 seconds recharge. 3 slotted with recharge SOs should have made it near perma. Against an even level mech man, it showed absolutely no to hit debuff. I can only guess the debuff only works for targets that are affected by the fear effect. I might test this at some point.

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The major thing to note here is that they are not accuracy debuffs, but to hit debuffs. This has some implications for the maths regarding the to-hit chages in I7, but for gods sake don't ask me to explain why.

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It's all a bit beyond me too, hence possible terminology problems.

The hero planner I looked at gave 25% res for SF but as it was wrong about DN I wanted to test it. That was only one simple test of being shot by charged bolts with SF on and then a shot with it off. No reason the figure should be wrong but I'll do another couple of test against a different mob type to confirm it.

I wasn't planning on listing all the power effects (such as the minus hp regen of TG or the % heal) but I guess it could be nice for any new people to have all the facts in one place so I might just double check some of that stuff too. Any additions by other people welcome.

As it was sort of what kicked me off testing, this spreadsheet linked to here is quite handy.

I'll find me some mech men later.

Personally I think a lot just don't know any better.

I started a Dark/Rad a couple of weeks ago and I always get curious about the figures for the powers - just so that I don't end up slotting stuff that's not worth slotting etc.. I looked at the hero planner and at some guides on the US forums to check these. It was only today that I found the figure for Darkest Night was totally wrong so I decided to do some testing of my own. As I haven't seen too much on these forums about any of these numbers, I thought I'd post them here for everyone. Sorry if they are already around somewhere.

Darkest Night

Accuracy Debuff - 18.75%
Damage Debuff - 37.5%

Twilight Grasp

Damage Debuff - 12.5%
Accuracy Debuff - 7%

The accuracy debuff was a little harder to test. I confirmed that the damage debuff does stack and I could stack 3 on my target (with maybe a very tiny window where there were only two stacked). The small test I did for accuracy gave me a figure of 22%. Assuming accuracy also stacks, that works out nicely at about 7%. I'd have to do a bigger sample to get a more accurate figure.

Shadow Fall

I only had time to run one very quick test with regards to the damage resistance provided. That worked out at 23.5%. I'll do some more tests when I next have the chance and also test the defence bonus it gives.

I also want to test the accuracy debuff in Fearsome Stare at some point. Anyone know any good mob types that are resistant to fear (and a lvl26 can last more than 4 seconds against)?

The abilities Khelds have in the lower levels (travel power straight out the box, cosmic balance giving big boosts, nova form being far more effective than a blaster at that level) means they are great fun early on. Plus it has great posing value whe you switch to Nova in a level 6 team of newbies and they all go "Ooooh, what's that?!"

I can't say I've noticed Khelds asking for PLing more than any other AT tho.

I've quite enjoyed my PvP time with Sundae but the age old problem - no mez protection - makes it hard to get into a standing fight with anything. I can go one on one with a Brute and probably win if I keep popping breakfree's. Without them I just get stunned by energy melee or nearby corruptors or etc..

Sneaky tactics seem best for me - drop behind something with no mez protection or already half dead and hit IS and then finish them off. To that end I might suggest you'd be better off with SS rather than combat jumping. Dwarf will give you immob protection if you need it (switch, tp next to foe, back to human and IS them).

Just my 2p worth.

Blue still logs on!

I've not seen him in about a year! Even my amazing tanking talents couldn't keep that guy from eating pavement on his road to 50.

Pass on my best when he's next on.

Looks pretty much fine to me.

Only thing I might say is you may not need provoke - see how you go without and decide. Also Fault is a very valuable tool. I'd change the DisDur to recharge instead. I like to keep them flipping as much as possible. Usually you can knock them over again before the stun wears off anyway. I've got two acc in mine just to make sure it hits as well.

Having started a dark/rad recently I'm curious to know how long irradiate last as well. I'd seen the same US post about it being 15 seconds which is why I picked it.

And your post did give me my first laugh of the day as well.

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Hmmm... a bit more of a rant than I'd intended - but I'd still maintain that most of the perceived problems lie with the players rather than the AT at this point - the ones who want to Tank still can, for a team that wants a Tank.

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Sort of agree. Like you say, tanks can still tank if they want to but most people don't seem to want to. Back before the changes, tanks were very hard to kill and getting aggro was easy. Aura on, throw a taunt and you were sorted. Of course it was so easy to hold aggro and not die that herding became a problem. Now, people have to put a fair bit of effort into getting all the aggro and stand a good chance of dying when they get it - not exactly an incentive.

Maybe I'm imagining it but two out of three tanks I see at the moment (especially at higher levels) seem to be stone tanks. Stone is a pretty balanced set I think people would agree? Before 32, it's probably a little weaker than most sets and so scranking is quite common. Then at 32 you get a power that lets you take on mobs much higher than most people and barely get scratched. You can also drop half your primary and pick loads of attacks. Teams are used to you scranking and thats all you know as well so why bother learning to hold aggro? I get the feeling that a lot of stone tanks are made by people that just want to get granite and become unkillable rather than be team players.

It's not the stone primary that's at fault, it's the player. Yet the primary is encouraging that sort of play. I think the whole AT has a similar problem. That's why I like Spacedogs idea about AoE's - don't give 'em any choice but get aggro.

My tank is small and hard to spot in a large group at the best of times, making me invisible only makes it much harder for me. If I don't know where I am, I'm not as good at keeping aggro...

That said, I used to have stealth and loved it (before I5 forced me to drop it for more defensive powers). I could hold aggro on one group and not have to worry about accidentally getting too close to the next group and aggroing them as well.

Things are always a little quiet here on the tanker forums so thought I could kick off a bit of discussion.

Rather than the usual about how to hold aggro, is taunt needed or do our primaries needed a boost, what suggestions do people have to sort out some of the problems the AT currently has? By problems I mean how low level tanks can't really tank and how to stop seemingly a large majority of tanks becoming scrankers?

I always quite liked the idea I heard about increasing the damage of tanker attacks but decreasing recharge - making them a bit more like the unstoppable hard hitting but slow powerhouse a lot of people think of when they think of tanks.

How about a temp armour power for low level tankers that increases resistance but decreases damage when active, making them able to tank for teams when needed. Or make it time limited like the cryonite armour you can get.

And what about dropping gauntlet and replacing it with an auto-taunt inherent? Being the biggest and most difficult to take down member of a team, bosses tend to charge straight at you. Lt's are a little more reluctant but will come and have a go and minions will give you a swift kick if they see you on the floor but otherwise tend to stay away. Not sure how you'd do it - maybe some sort of automatic damage level aggro which varies for bosses, lt's and minions. Would be fairly easy to outdamage and pull a minion off but distracting a boss could be much harder.

Please note I've not put much thought into these, I'm just bored at work and flinging out vague ideas.