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I'm contemplating my I7 respec. FF is my secondary, so I'm already pretty defense based. My question is whether group invisibility is really worth it (Illusion is my primary) as my suspicion is that the small bubbles + the big bubble are already getting near some sort of defence cap.
Right or wrong here chaps?
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Well, acording to Hero Builder (ie: take with a pinch of salt according to taste) Dispersion Bubble with Deflection/Insulation Shield, all three slotted, will give 29% Def so you're still comfortably under the limit. Having said that, it also gives the Def for Group Invis, also three slotted, as about 5.5% so you may feel it's not worth taking just for Defense purposes.
"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."
While there is a hard defence cap at somewhere around 200-300% (IIRC), no character in the game can get even close to it alone. Of course, enemies always have at least 5% ToHit chance, so how much defence is required to 'cap' against most foes is far less than the hard cap. However, since rank and level increase enemies accuracy, you can't really have too much defense.
I thought the changes with I7 meant that anything over 45% defence was pointless anyway?
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I thought the changes with I7 meant that anything over 45% defence was pointless anyway?
[/ QUOTE ]Nope, higher level/rank foes still have higher accuracy, as do foes with ToHit buffs, defence just scales better.
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I thought the changes with I7 meant that anything over 45% defence was pointless anyway?
[/ QUOTE ]Nope, higher level/rank foes still have higher accuracy, as do foes with ToHit buffs, defence just scales better.
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Shocked as I am to find myself disagreeing with MaX the following quote from Castle indicates otherwise:
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Debuffs are applied to To Hit, not Accuracy. So, a 30% To Hit Debuff on an AV would result in the AV having (50% - 30%) * 1.5 [Their Accuracy Modifier] or 30% chance to hit someone with no Defense. If you have 5% Defense on top of the Debuff, that would be cut down to 22.5% chance to hit. If you have 20% Defense on top of the Debuff, then the AV's chance to hit would be 7.5%. A Defender with Darkest Night with 3 even level To Hit Debuff Enhancements has a 30% To Hit Debuff.
Lastly, To Hit Debuffs essentially fulfill the function of Defense for everyone the Debuffed target attacks.
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(Don't have the original source I'm afraid but it dates back to the first announcements about the I7 defence changes.)
"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."
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Debuffs are applied to To Hit, not Accuracy. So, a 30% To Hit Debuff on an AV would result in the AV having (50% - 30%) * 1.5 [Their Accuracy Modifier] or 30% chance to hit someone with no Defense. If you have 5% Defense on top of the Debuff, that would be cut down to 22.5% chance to hit. If you have 20% Defense on top of the Debuff, then the AV's chance to hit would be 7.5%. A Defender with Darkest Night with 3 even level To Hit Debuff Enhancements has a 30% To Hit Debuff.
Lastly, To Hit Debuffs essentially fulfill the function of Defense for everyone the Debuffed target attacks.
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(Don't have the original source I'm afraid but it dates back to the first announcements about the I7 defence changes.)
[/ QUOTE ]That quote clearly shows that AV's have accuracy modifier of 1.5, which means their accuracy is higher than minion's. Also, see the numbers by States here, they clearly show that enemies of higher rank and level have higer accuracy.
Quoting the formula from that post of States
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(Base To Hit + To Hit Buffs - (To Hit Debuffs * Combat Mod) Defense) capped at 5% or 95% * Accuracy (capped at 5% or 95%, again)
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Where Accuracy = rank modifier * level modifier * weapon modifier
The base To Hit is always 50% from what I've read. Ignoring any to hit debuffs/buffs means you get
Base To Hit Defense capped at 5% or 95%
Anything over 45% will still give a 5% value as it's capped. Then the accuracy modifier is applied. As you said Max, To Hit buffs will change this and higher defence will be needed to counter those buffs. I'd forgotten that. I don't know how many mobs have To Hit buffs tho? Nemesis with Vengance and DE with those crystal things are a couple that spring to mind. In the majority of cases, defence over 45% is not helping at all I think.
Or I'm quite happy to be proven wrong as I'm not exactly an expert. 
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I don't know how many mobs have To Hit buffs tho? Nemesis with Vengance and DE with those crystal things are a couple that spring to mind. In the majority of cases, defence over 45% is not helping at all I think.
[/ QUOTE ]Arachnos, R.I.P. and PPD(I think) use tactics at least. Also, there are many enemies with Def debuffs. (Just about anybody with guns, bladed weapons or radiation).
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Debuffs are applied to To Hit, not Accuracy. So, a 30% To Hit Debuff on an AV would result in the AV having (50% - 30%) * 1.5 [Their Accuracy Modifier] or 30% chance to hit someone with no Defense. If you have 5% Defense on top of the Debuff, that would be cut down to 22.5% chance to hit. If you have 20% Defense on top of the Debuff, then the AV's chance to hit would be 7.5%. A Defender with Darkest Night with 3 even level To Hit Debuff Enhancements has a 30% To Hit Debuff.
Lastly, To Hit Debuffs essentially fulfill the function of Defense for everyone the Debuffed target attacks.
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(Don't have the original source I'm afraid but it dates back to the first announcements about the I7 defence changes.)
[/ QUOTE ]That quote clearly shows that AV's have accuracy modifier of 1.5, which means their accuracy is higher than minion's. Also, see the numbers by States here, they clearly show that enemies of higher rank and level have higer accuracy.
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Yes, and the Accuracy multiplier is applied after DEF/ToHit have already been summed and capped. So whilst the higher Accuracy modifier for higher ranks and levels certainly exist and will make them more accurate, Defense doesn't work to counteract that once the first part of the ToHit calculation has been floored at 5%. Since everything in PvE will have a base ToHit of 50% in I7 that means that DEF >45% will only be useful against enemies with ToHit buffs (as mentioned) or in PvP where there are many more ToHit buffs about.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
I'm contemplating my I7 respec. FF is my secondary, so I'm already pretty defense based. My question is whether group invisibility is really worth it (Illusion is my primary) as my suspicion is that the small bubbles + the big bubble are already getting near some sort of defence cap.
Right or wrong here chaps?