Dornn

More likely an old patch.

Yea to me that was part of the problem. You had to deal with the redraw anyways to use both of them so I didn't see a reason to use the crab attacks just to get suppression.

The attack chain thing is a good point though. I will have to look at different builds. If I really can't fit in a decent single target attack chain then I'd agree the activation times just don't matter.

Nope they are both 1.67. Maybe it got changed? I know the Huntsman's were happy about some changes like that. Also I understand the redraw issue. I guess my point was all the ranged attacks on the SMG statistically look better with the exception being Suppression.

Even Suppression is only a question of tradeoffs vs Heavy Burst. Better cone + energy vs faster recharge/animation time. I'd say Suppression wins though.

Unfleshed? Do you mean like not having a valid full attack chain for single target? I guess I haven't looked at it so that may very well be a valid point. Bayonet is very nice but there would probably be no room for it after everything else I want.

I wish the Grenades were like you said though. If that was still the case I could just happily play Crab and not feel like I'm doing some sort of theme build just for the heck of it.

How so? They are listed as having exactly the same animation time. I don't want single target damage I want good ranged AoE. I just don't see why I wouldn't get my ranged AoE from the Wolf Spider Grenades + Heavy Burst with Suppression thrown in now and then?

Doing so gives me superior single target damage when I actually need it. I don't want to use the gun though so this bothers me. I'm not looking for FOTM or something overpowered but it irritates me to take the thing I'm playing and pick the poorer setup.

How are the nades better? Looking at the stats they are 1 for 1 copies in every way down to the animation times even.

It's true channel gun is energy but single shot does 47% more damage now that it's animation time is shorter. That seems like a lot even if lethal is more heavily resisted.

Now that I've used it I think Suppression is great of course but Heavy Burst is great as well. Basically though it feels like you lose far superior single target damage (both melee and ranged) to get Suppression and some melee aoe's with extremely limited radius/arc.

Suppression and the melee aoe's feel at odds with each other basically. One is an amazing spread effect and the others require extreme bunching of enemies.

I guess why this bugs me is I have this feeling I should be using the wolf spider skills and simply eating the redraw when I want to use Suppression. I made a VEAT though because I wanted to shoot things in the face with backpack arms.

I think the wolf spider set should be superior in some circumstances but I want to be a Crab so I'd love it if a number cruncher could show me how to make the Crab excel at something fun compared to some sort of Wolf/Crab hybrid (like the huntsman).

Just out of curiosity do you have any kind of DPS comparison for this attack chain vs a best DPS chain for Katana?

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I think it's probably simpler to say though that using % for defense and resistance was a flawed design decision. Using %'s leads to heavily increasing returns. Gaining 1 point from 98% to 99% is like doubling your effectiveness.

Gaining more HP/S is always the same though. It's useful and has no diminishing returns but when you have a lot of DPS coming at you nothing can beat exploiting the increasing returns of approaching the caps.