If you string together the crab and soldier attacks, they give and gain some in different places and equal out.
Yes burst is better on soldier, but nades are better on crab.
This is intentional.
Also, other than longfang, you switch to energy type damage, something to note when comparing activation times.
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How are the nades better? Looking at the stats they are 1 for 1 copies in every way down to the animation times even.|
Originally Posted by 5th_Player
Yes burst is better on soldier, but nades are better on crab.
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It's true channel gun is energy but single shot does 47% more damage now that it's animation time is shorter. That seems like a lot even if lethal is more heavily resisted.
Now that I've used it I think Suppression is great of course but Heavy Burst is great as well. Basically though it feels like you lose far superior single target damage (both melee and ranged) to get Suppression and some melee aoe's with extremely limited radius/arc.
Suppression and the melee aoe's feel at odds with each other basically. One is an amazing spread effect and the others require extreme bunching of enemies.
I guess why this bugs me is I have this feeling I should be using the wolf spider skills and simply eating the redraw when I want to use Suppression. I made a VEAT though because I wanted to shoot things in the face with backpack arms.
I think the wolf spider set should be superior in some circumstances but I want to be a Crab so I'd love it if a number cruncher could show me how to make the Crab excel at something fun compared to some sort of Wolf/Crab hybrid (like the huntsman).
Crab ain't a great single-target attacker. If that's what you want, look someplace else.
I don't think there's many Crabs who take the melee abilities. Heavy Burst is definitely a part of their attack chain, though.
*Also, what he meant by Crabs having better grenades is that they animate a little faster.
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How so? They are listed as having exactly the same animation time. I don't want single target damage I want good ranged AoE. I just don't see why I wouldn't get my ranged AoE from the Wolf Spider Grenades + Heavy Burst with Suppression thrown in now and then?|
Originally Posted by Ahmon
Crab ain't a great single-target attacker. If that's what you want, look someplace else.
I don't think there's many Crabs who take the melee abilities. Heavy Burst is definitely a part of their attack chain, though. *Also, what he meant by Crabs having better grenades is that they animate a little faster. |
Doing so gives me superior single target damage when I actually need it. I don't want to use the gun though so this bothers me. I'm not looking for FOTM or something overpowered but it irritates me to take the thing I'm playing and pick the poorer setup.
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Wolf Spider grenades animate 0.2s slower, if I'm not mistaken. 1.67 vs. 1.87. The reason you wouldn't get the grenades from Wolf Spider anyways is because they don't use the arms, regardless of stats. The submachine gun is a toy in the hands of a Crab.|
Originally Posted by Dornn
How so? They are listed as having exactly the same animation time. I don't want single target damage I want good ranged AoE. I just don't see why I wouldn't get my ranged AoE from the Wolf Spider Grenades + Heavy Burst with Suppression thrown in now and then?
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| Doing so gives me superior single target damage when I actually need it. I don't want to use the gun though so this bothers me. I'm not looking for FOTM or something overpowered but it irritates me to take the thing I'm playing and pick the poorer setup. |
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Nope they are both 1.67. Maybe it got changed? I know the Huntsman's were happy about some changes like that. Also I understand the redraw issue. I guess my point was all the ranged attacks on the SMG statistically look better with the exception being Suppression. |
Originally Posted by Ahmon
Wolf Spider grenades animate 0.2s slower, if I'm not mistaken. 1.67 vs. 1.87. The reason you wouldn't get the grenades from Wolf Spider anyways is because they don't use the arms, regardless of stats. The submachine gun is a toy in the hands of a Crab.
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Even Suppression is only a question of tradeoffs vs Heavy Burst. Better cone + energy vs faster recharge/animation time. I'd say Suppression wins though.
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| The only difference is the activation time, which is not going to matter in your unfleshed attack chain. |
I wish the Grenades were like you said though. If that was still the case I could just happily play Crab and not feel like I'm doing some sort of theme build just for the heck of it.
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These two powers aren't really competing, though. For an AoE attack chain, you want both.|
Originally Posted by Dornn
Even Suppression is only a question of tradeoffs vs Heavy Burst. Better cone + energy vs faster recharge/animation time. I'd say Suppression wins though.
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| Unfleshed? Do you mean like not having a valid full attack chain for single target? I guess I haven't looked at it so that may very well be a valid point. Bayonet is very nice but there would probably be no room for it after everything else I want. |
That said, Crab is quite powerful without any Wolf Spider attacks. Heavy Burst just seems necessary to make a more seamless AoE attack chain. Aside from that, I like to skip all the rest and enjoy Crabbing.
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Yea to me that was part of the problem. You had to deal with the redraw anyways to use both of them so I didn't see a reason to use the crab attacks just to get suppression.|
Originally Posted by Ahmon
These two powers aren't really competing, though. For an AoE attack chain, you want both.
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The attack chain thing is a good point though. I will have to look at different builds. If I really can't fit in a decent single target attack chain then I'd agree the activation times just don't matter.
Ok I want to make a Crab but I'm confused on a couple things. Looking at the abilities in game in detailed view it seems like the Wolf Spider single target damage abilities are just way higher DPA? Burst looks to be twice as good as Longfang? Why? I can understand them not wanting a class to have two abilities as good as Burst but that seems like overkill.
I'm confused as to whether or not I've misunderstood something about the class basically. Any info people could give would be helpful.