Dechs Kaison

Please look at this: [Darkest Night]

Darkest Night is a debuff. It offer no protection whatsoever.

With such blatant ignorance, I have no need to continue arguing with you. Enjoy your little world where debuffs somehow buff your pets that you have no idea how to control.

One of the reasons that I'm having the party run for a few hours is so people can rotate through characters during the event.

To both of you, thanks for the compliments, but please remember this is not my work. I've paid two people design this base for me, and it's comments like these that make me sure it was influence well spent.

(( It's a shame you won't be there, but hey, since the remodel is done, you can at least check out the new pictures!

Look here! ))

Must be operator error, here, because my bots do stay in one place. See, with a set of pets that are entirely ranged, it's much easier to get them to stay wherever you want them. Necro pets are much less likely to stay in one place, thanks to mix of ranged and melee attacks they have. This can be overcome by micromanaging, but from what you say about bots, I have to assume that's beyond your capabilities.

Again, Darkest Night doesn't care where you are in relation to the anchor, it's that simple. You seem to be ignorant to simple game mechanics with statements like this. Whether you or your pets stand in its radius or not, the benefit to you and your pets is the same. Your pets do not have to chase the anchor, because you should have the tools to keep your enemies near that anchor. Also, if the anchor breaks away and you follow him, the enemies no longer in the Darkest Night radius are no longer debuffed and your pets receive no benefit.

Hurricane can help in that situation in two very easy ways. The first is to jump past the enemies and push them towards your team of thugs while debuffing them. The second option is to walk close enough that they get debuffed without being knocked back. You'd probably know this was possible if you have ever played Storm Summoning or you read the post you quoted, which clearly states the second tactic.

Again, you can move close enough to debuff without knocking enemies back. Further, you can move past enemies fast enough to not knock them back, and instead knock them forward if you so desire. This, again, requires a bit more thought than you've demonstrated you are capable of.

This paragraph is all the evidence I need of your complete lack of tactics.

You can claim things like this all you want, but everything else you've said speaks a resounding "I have no idea what I'm talking about."

Excellent job describing yourself. Bravo. It's the one thing you've done well in this thread.



Hey, I remember you now. You're the guy who thought you could order henchmen to attack in defensive mode and still maintain bodyguard mode. You were just as ignorant and stubborn back then too. Three other people came in to tell you that you were incorrect, at which point you disappeared from the discussion. Imagine that.

Thanks for the help finding a place for me to add Taunt. I just got home to be able to play with Mids. I've run into a lot of problems with trying to fit Taunt in myself.

I'm already at a slight net end loss when I rotate AoEs in the chain, so Physical Perfection can't go. I also highly value the regeneration in this build because I've put so much into +max HP.

The next thought was dropping Super Jump because I actually don't use it all that often. The problem here is that I need Super Jump to have Acrobatics, and I'm not willing to drop Acrobatics until Dark Armor gets some KB protection of its own. One KB IO does not stop Wardens, Fake Nemesis, and quite a few other things from knocking me on my hind end.

I've been forced to drop Oppressive Gloom, which I'm actually OK with. I don't often use it, and unlike my Tank counterpart, this character has some control in its attacks. Op Gloom wasn't giving me any set bonuses either, so I've not lost anything important. I did move things around though, so Taunt is available even in low levels.

Here's how it ended up:

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|4592D83689222328398622A9AF1E21E2E215DD78752DEF378 FDACF770EFC64F4FE0|
|04E396BE60943522DBFAEE587BC0BF22EC8E7BE33F2272CCF B73C0A079415608F2D|
|7F000EBBE1B01B0E737098B3396B0E46DFD0350887DE20BA1 1C2F943684A0E4D794|
|D8A1EADEB812E0C4118823CB286E83589406744063934F657 28B76FE9DAA7FDF5F5|
|7B55281A05628CA98457C96706803B86F257A353C5742F621 F857AD2FF0178CFC87|
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|1E982|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Not remotely. It's more like eating your fill of steak but skipping all the seafood because you just don't like it.

Erm... this isn't correct.

Twilight Grasp heals around you, so you only need to stand near your pets. Nothing about this power requires you to be near melee.

Darkest Night doesn't care where your pets are either. Place this on the enemies and it debuffs the enemies. You get no benefit by being in range of Darkest Night.

Have you ever played Dark Miasma? Bots/Dark is one of the more powerful combinations available to MMs, as the -tohit and +def of the bots stack nicely. Bots/Dark is one of the premier AV/GM soloers as well.

Very true, and remember, I'm the "Any build, any budget, no exclusions" guy anyway.

It's more that I'm heavily considering my Brute as an aggro control capable character than considering my Tank as obsolete. I've no illusions that my Tank will no longer have a place. He'll never cease to be fun, either, if for no other reason than I enjoy his story and /em kata-ing in front of Lord Recluse. I'm just seeing more of the overlap.

Wow. This.

Heretic.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

Excuse me, but the highlighted portion here is incorrect for some users of the forums, or at the very least, for myself. I have my default thread display at 40 posts per page. We are, in fact, still on page one as far as I am concerned.

I dunno if you've seen it, but my Warshade's build is posted here.

The only time I hang out in human form for extended periods of time is during AV fights, and the new build allows me to run Orbiting Death and Assault while maintaining a respectable attack chain that also happens to immobilize the AV.

I wouldn't delete him... not quite. I'd remake him as Kinetic Melee, if anything. It's only the story I've made up for him that has been keeping the Fire. That and how he has 2 million prestige earned for the SG I'm in. And having to level him all over again. And earning all of the Mo badges again which won't be as hard this time around with incarnate powers, but still... Oh, who am I kidding ... I'll never delete that tank.

The current is no different than the last you saw in a thread long ago. You helped me optimize it to where it is, and it didn't include taunt then and I'm pretty sure you brought it up as a concern.

As much as I love my tank, I've come to realize that the Brute does indeed have more potential. I think that was one of my fears when building the Brute, and probably the reason I didn't build him to actively tank.

It's more than just the AT difference, though. I love claws, now, both for its damage and control capabilities. I wish my Tank were anything but fire melee. The damage is great, but there is no control to it. I've had to rely on Ancillary powers to fill that gap. I find it's all to easy to protect teammates with [Shockwave], and it does heaps of damage as well.




In the end, Deus, Silas, Amyg, and Uber, you guys have given me a lot to think about. I love my Tank; I love the character. I haven't been willing to see this: but he's just not the optimal choice for most content in the game. Looking back, I can't really remember the last time I used my tank for a team (of course, I did just spend three of the last four weeks out of town).

I'm usually a pretty stubborn individual (like I needed to say that), so call this a win if you want. Thinking about it now, I'd be able to easily drop my travel power on the Brute for Taunt. Beast Run still works.

I'm more than willing to do some math on it; I'm simply not in the position to do that now. What I could do is try to compare optimal chains for each of the bots using values from redtomax, but I'm not certain how the level differences will be affected or that the bots could keep up optimal chains reliably.

I'm willing to put it to a test, (as I have done in the past*) but I've had a lot of other things going on this week that haven't allowed me the time. When I haven't been at work, I've been spending my time preparing for the in character party which is so important to have taken the place of "Dark Armor Sucks" in my signature.

*You sparked quite the enlightenment for me last time with the Warshade when it came to determining single target attack chains. I was surprised to find that I in fact get better single target DPS out of Dwarf than either human or Nova. I have since respec'd the shade to get comparable single target DPS in human form, while maintaining some important control capabilities.

OK, before I give you the odds, I'm going to make some quick clarifications.

1. Any bet placed must be in even amounts of 100m influence.
2. I must receive the bet by global email or trade for a bet to be "placed."
3. All bets must be placed by September 22nd.
4. Odds are subject to change while betting is open for future bets, but odds on bets received will not change.

So, here's the odds, based on my analysis of teams:

Skippy Sidekick - 1:1
Alpha Wolf - 3:2
Crosscheck - 3:2
Zwillinger - 3:1
Positron - 4:1
Clockwork O1 - 6:1
Giant Monster - 10:1
Friends of the Studio - 16:1

For those who need the odds explained:
Your bet is placed on a team. Skippy Sidekick is the favorite to win, which means he's going to pay the least on your bet. 1:1 means if you bet one, you win one. On a 100m bet, if Skippy wins, you get 200m back, which is your bet plus the winnings.

Alpha and Crosscheck are each the next in line for favorite. Their odds of 3:2 means that you bet two to win three. If you place a 100m bet on Alpha and he wins, you will be paid 250m, which is 150m winnings on top of the 100m you bet.

Friend of the Studio is the long shot, which means if you bet on him, it will pay the most if he wins. 16:1 means you bet one to win sixteen. If you place a 100m bet on Friend here and he takes the cake, I'll be paying you 1.7 billion influence (bet plus winnings).

Alright, let's have some fun with this!

EDIT at 9:40 EDT, September 13th - Positron's odds changed for all bets placed after this time. Clockwork and Giant Monster's adjusted higher to compensate.

Even in the Lambda split phase, I find myself soloing containers and crates.

My point is that if I'm on a map set for +2/x8, I don't find myself moving any faster with the Acid mortar than I do without it, so my raw DPS must be "enough."

Further, I think the raw DPS is a purely academic value with no real meaning because I will always have my Acid Mortar. Further, the only time this value becomes important is when the enemy resistance has reached a floor, which is at -300% if I'm not mistaken.

I have never compared my Tank's aggro holding capability to that of my Bots/Traps. If the role required is holding aggro to keep people alive, there is no doubt in my mind the Tank is the better choice. He has an auto hit taunt that my Brute and Bots/Traps do not. He is much more mobile and able to deal with ambushes and over aggro. I do think he has more survivability than my Bots/Traps.

The Bots/Traps handles aggro just as well as my Brute, perhaps better. That is not true of all Brutes, or even most of them. I simply chose to focus my Brute on dealing damage.

This is just another reason why I prefer to bring the Bots/Traps on a team. I multiply the effectiveness of everyone else on the team. Nothing you've said has made my Brute seem more appealing to take on a team.

As for my raw DPS, I don't care what it really is. I know it's plenty because I'm not always laying acid mortars when I solo. On anything less than +3, it's just not worth the time.

Let me just speak up as one person who is always hidden, but spends the majority of my time in game on PUGs.

Emphasis mine here:

Yes, there are do it all characters like a Warshade. Some of them may even be just as fun were I to try them. But there's nothing in my stable I can pick up.

That's certainly not the case. I can show you the Brute's build, and there's nothing ****** about him. The brute is Claws/DA and sits at 32.5% defense to S/L/E/N with enough recharge to Dark Regen every nine seconds if he needs to. Follow Up, Death Shroud, Spin, Eviscerate and Shockwave are nothing short of jaw dropping, and as long as I'm eatting a small purple inspiration every so often, I've been able to handle any enemy group I've tried on +4/x8, and even managed to solo the Pylon in an Apex TF. I just didn't have room for taunt, so the aggro control he does is limited to "accidental" and "I've been tearing a hole in this AV for a while so he seems to not like me."

The Bots/Traps, though, does "crank it up to eleven." He has softcapped defense to S/L and Ranged, while above 40% to everything else except psionic, which is only 35%. He has 1142 hit points, almost 50% higher than base, and regenerates 28.4 HP/second before Aid Self. Before you count bodyguard mode, he has 41.7% resistance to S/L and Energy. After you consider bodyguard mode, those attributes are effectively at 85% and everything else at 75%. He has more survival than most tanks this way, and can even use Seeker Drones to absorb particularly harsh alphas and also debuff tohit and damage. Speaking of debuffs, stacking Acid Mortars multiply already impressive damage and Poison Gas Trap floors almost anyone's regen. The bots themselves are all softcapped to everything, but that doesn't matter because I don't let them take aggro. +4/x8 maps? No problem. AVs? I solo'd the Clockwork King before the rest of the team got down to that floor with Penelope. GMs? So far I've been able to do every one I've tried: Deathsurge, Scrapyard, Kracken, Paladin, Jurrassik and a Lattice on Monster Island.

Bots/Traps is not a Mastermind. It's an archetype all its own.

I couldn't disagree more. The only thing I liked about my PB was how well he performed in the levels below 40 compared to everyone else. He's been deleted twice now after level 35 because Light Form just wasn't enough to keep up with everyone else. I expect these changes are all I need to be able to actually stick with the PB this time.

Not quite. I was in fact saying that everything my brute contributed to a team, my Bots/Traps did better. There is nothing my brute brings to a team that my Bots/Traps does not do better.

That's why I disagree with your comparison to my Warshade. There is no other AT that I can play to duplicate all the things he does.

EDIT: This is my quote I'm referring to:

Both roles of the brute are surpassed by the same character. This is not saying "a Tank is better at aggro control and a scrapper is better at damage, so the Brute is useless." I agree that's a ridiculous statement.