Bots is pretty much it. The protector bots being able to grand 22% defense to everything and being able to provide spot heals is kinda overwhelming.
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In CoV beta, the protector bots had dispersion bubble, too. Can you imagine that on top of everything, mezz protection?
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Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
So how do demons hold up? I am going to roll a Demon/Storm once Freedom goes live and can't really find too much info on Demons survivability.
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I'm rolling a Demons/Thermal right now, just got through Praetoria and is level 21. I don't have issue with keeping them alive and I haven't even had the single target heal to help.
Granted, I took Provoke at level 10...
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Necro filled up with thermal does pretty nice too, final upgrade gives them a self heal (not that super), but combined with the lich fear and hold, graveknight knockdown, they wont die that easy.
If they die, you can resummon a ghost from it, they even have phasechange.
But without secondairy, i go for bots. A heal, very nice def bubble and pretty good AI (unlike mercs who randomly run melee and the retarted medic with interuptable heal).
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Demons are up there especially after 32 cause of the hold and ember demon's aoe heal. But if their timings are off then they go down quick.
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Bots are certainly not immune to bad AI decisions. I have seen my protector bot choose to be in melee even though he has no melee attacks.
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Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU
But without secondairy, i go for bots. <snip> and pretty good AI (unlike mercs who randomly run melee and the retarted medic with interuptable heal).
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The flipside of all of this is that Ninjas are the flimsiest of pets.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Well, technically, Photon Seekers are a little more flimsy. But Ninjas are certainly close.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
The flipside of all of this is that Ninjas are the flimsiest of pets.
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They're both certainly suicidal.
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NPC protector bots like the ones in mortimer kal sf and the ambush ones in LRSF in the malta warehouse have dispersion bubble still
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
In CoV beta, the protector bots had dispersion bubble, too. Can you imagine that on top of everything, mezz protection?
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Toughest? Robot.
2nd rank is probably Demon.
Robot is toughest because they are all ranged (although some do run in) and they have good resistance against most common range attacks - Lethal damage.
Demon has good resistance but they are quite melee-oriented which puts them in more danger.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
The other thing to remember is bots can run around and still keep a lot of defense on but demons (and thugs) defenses are based on auras so you need to keep them together.
i think its wrong to speak of pet set only.
the best survivability always depends on the best possible synergy between pets own means of protection and the secondary skill set.
some examples
1. nekro/dark - being fragile a start necros can build a strong level of -tohit. all they need is a way to cancel alpha strike, which is no problem with dark powers. also total number of -tohit is outstanding.
2. bots/traps or /ff - don't need actually to say more. all +def stack.
3. thugs/traps or /ff - same, all +def stack.
4. demons/thermal - primary way to defend themselfs for demons is resistance, so thermal is the best way to improve it.
bad way examples:
bot/dark - while still be playable its bad synergy. for twilight you need to be near to melee range to enemy, otherwise you will be healing only 1 or 2 pets. for darkest night the best place for your pets near to anchor. bots are ranged, that mess the positioning.
thugs/storm - best protection is hurricane, but bruiser and arsonist whole the time run out of it. if for bruiser its intended, still both of them die quite fast without additional support.
and so on.....
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Erm... this isn't correct. |
Originally Posted by kalashnikow
bad way examples:
bot/dark - while still be playable its bad synergy. for twilight you need to be near to melee range to enemy, otherwise you will be healing only 1 or 2 pets. for darkest night the best place for your pets near to anchor. bots are ranged, that mess the positioning. |
Twilight Grasp heals around you, so you only need to stand near your pets. Nothing about this power requires you to be near melee.
Darkest Night doesn't care where your pets are either. Place this on the enemies and it debuffs the enemies. You get no benefit by being in range of Darkest Night.
Have you ever played Dark Miasma? Bots/Dark is one of the more powerful combinations available to MMs, as the -tohit and +def of the bots stack nicely. Bots/Dark is one of the premier AV/GM soloers as well.
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Gotta say I love playing Bots. The little guys still die a good bit, but much less than my soldiers, thugs, or zombies. They're also very gooda gainst certain groups. I don't sweat Carnies at all, or anyone that does psionic damage, really. They freaking obliterate Rikti; probably a combination of energy weapons and Rikti's lack of big AoE.
None of that beats concept though, so if you have a great idea for ninjas, run with it! Just be prepared to summon them quite a bit. >.>
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My experience with hurricane has been that its defensive contribution comes in two parts: 1) the hit debuff, and 2) the knockback. Once enemies are debuffed (which extends past the visual swirl), they'll have a hard time hitting which combines very nicely with thugs' stacked maneuvers and protector bots' ff. It does require an active play style though, flying around a spawn ensuring all the mobs receive the debuff. The knockback just adds insult to injury. |
Originally Posted by kalashnikow
bad way examples: [snip]... thugs/storm - best protection is hurricane, but bruiser and arsonist whole the time run out of it. if for bruiser its intended, still both of them die quite fast without additional support. and so on..... |
I actually prefer the demons/storm combo for layered defenses: hit debuff from hurricane + maneuvers + demons' resistances + additional 10% pet def. + additional 20% pet resistances + random spot and AOE demon healing (and O2 Boost) for anything else that gets through. That adds up to pets that are essentially defense capped with impressive levels of resistance and some healing mitigation on the top.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
...[I]t would be more proper to say this game is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly dying.
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... no thinking ... and no game experience ...|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Erm... this isn't correct.
Twilight Grasp heals around you, so you only need to stand near your pets. Nothing about this power requires you to be near melee. Darkest Night doesn't care where your pets are either. Place this on the enemies and it debuffs the enemies. You get no benefit by being in range of Darkest Night. Have you ever played Dark Miasma? Bots/Dark is one of the more powerful combinations available to MMs, as the -tohit and +def of the bots stack nicely. Bots/Dark is one of the premier AV/GM soloers as well. |
1. bots (sadly) don't stay in one place, they scatter. and its the front line that need to be healed at most. its not the power that require to be in melee range, its your bots that run in to. which force you to move around and repeatedly heal front and back line turn by turn. nekros on other hand are all at same place.
2. darkest night debuff only stuff around the anchor, therefore its the safest area where you and your pets can stay. it make no sense if the anchor run away or being knocked away and all other mobs hammering your pets down. therefore you need melee pets chasing the anchor. bots are ranged, thats the problem. if some mobs break through the front line they rip your bots apart. on other hand nekros have controls, that allow to have the upper hand.
3. well, nekro/dark works better then bot/dark, just because of placements. and before you make any further pointless assumption - my main char is nekro/dark. i've killed nearly every gm/av with it.
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Originally Posted by Nyghtmaire
My experience with hurricane has been that its defensive contribution comes in two parts: 1) the hit debuff, and 2) the knockback. Once enemies are debuffed ....
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imagine that - you staying behind, bruiser run in to front line, arsonist after him. mobs agro them. how hurricane can be of help in that situation?
you can stay behind, but arsonist will definitely die and bruiser most probably too. o2boost will not outheal the damage. you can also move with hurricane in to mobs, but that will only cancel the AoE damage and still the backline of the mobs will do full damage on them.
so " Once enemies are debuffed" will require that you sweeping the whole room scattering the mobs and annoying your team mates. seriously, hurricane + melee pets is a bad idea. i have had thug/storm and deleted him after lvl 32 because of that. it was nearly useless. on other hand bot/storm works well because hurricane can protect nearly all of them.
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Must be operator error, here, because my bots do stay in one place. See, with a set of pets that are entirely ranged, it's much easier to get them to stay wherever you want them. Necro pets are much less likely to stay in one place, thanks to mix of ranged and melee attacks they have. This can be overcome by micromanaging, but from what you say about bots, I have to assume that's beyond your capabilities.|
Originally Posted by kalashnikow
1. bots (sadly) don't stay in one place, they scatter. and its the front line that need to be healed at most. its not the power that require to be in melee range, its your bots that run in to. which force you to move around and repeatedly heal front and back line turn by turn. nekros on other hand are all at same place.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
2. darkest night debuff only stuff around the anchor, therefore its the safest area where you and your pets can stay. it make no sense if the anchor run away or being knocked away and all other mobs hammering your pets down. therefore you need melee pets chasing the anchor. bots are ranged, thats the problem. if some mobs break through the front line they rip your bots apart. on other hand nekros have controls, that allow to have the upper hand.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
of course knockback is the part of it. but that's also a problem with thugs.
imagine that - you staying behind, bruiser run in to front line, arsonist after him. mobs agro them. how hurricane can be of help in that situation? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
you can stay behind, but arsonist will definitely die and bruiser most probably too. o2boost will not outheal the damage. you can also move with hurricane in to mobs, but that will only cancel the AoE damage and still the backline of the mobs will do full damage on them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
so " Once enemies are debuffed" will require that you sweeping the whole room scattering the mobs and annoying your team mates. seriously, hurricane + melee pets is a bad idea. i have had thug/storm and deleted him after lvl 32 because of that. it was nearly useless. on other hand bot/storm works well because hurricane can protect nearly all of them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
and before you make any further pointless assumption - my main char is nekro/dark. i've killed nearly every gm/av with it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kalashnikow
... no thinking ... and no game experience ...
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Hey, I remember you now. You're the guy who thought you could order henchmen to attack in defensive mode and still maintain bodyguard mode. You were just as ignorant and stubborn back then too. Three other people came in to tell you that you were incorrect, at which point you disappeared from the discussion. Imagine that.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Your bots stay in one place?
... At what level? I noticed that mine were more likely to at 32+, when they had enough ranged attacks. Otherwise, they'd fire their lasers, then go punch things while their lasers recharged.
Wait wait wait ... did someone just accuse Dechs Kaison of having no game experience?
Did I fall into an alternate universe or something?
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no, they don't because of the bugged AI. it has been discussed so much that it pointless to talk about it again.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Must be operator error, here, because my bots do stay in one place.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Again, Darkest Night doesn't care where you are in relation to the anchor, it's that simple. You seem to be ignorant to simple game mechanics with statements like this.
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if you would have made e a thug/storm and bot/storm and compare your experience what will work better.
oh, wait a moment, that is i who did it already. so make your own experience with them, then we will talk.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Hurricane can help in that situation in two very easy ways. The first is to jump past the enemies and push them towards your team of thugs while debuffing them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The second option is to walk close enough that they get debuffed without being knocked back. You'd probably know this was possible if you have ever played Storm Summoning or you read the post you quoted, which clearly states the second tactic.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Again, you can move close enough to debuff without knocking enemies back.
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if you debuff front line - back line still do full damage.
if you go past the front line to debuff both front and back line - you render AoE to single target.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
This paragraph is all the evidence I need of your complete lack of tactics.
You can claim things like this all you want, but everything else you've said speaks a resounding "I have no idea what I'm talking about." |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Excellent job describing yourself. Bravo. It's the one thing you've done well in this thread.
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Please look at this: [Darkest Night]|
Originally Posted by kalashnikow
you seems to be ignorant to simple fact, that the night offer protection only around the anchor. if the pets are ranged and stay outside of it - they will get ripped.
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Darkest Night is a debuff. It offer no protection whatsoever.
With such blatant ignorance, I have no need to continue arguing with you. Enjoy your little world where debuffs somehow buff your pets that you have no idea how to control.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
But what about my silly question about bots? I seriously want to know what I'm missing if other peoples' bots are staying at range.
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I can get them to stay at range most of the time. Level doesn't matter if you keep a close watch on them. As soon as one moves forward, tap "Defensive/Follow" to clear their aggro and make them run back to you, then tell them "Defensive/Goto" at your feet. The second part is what makes them return to attacking immediately.
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Originally Posted by seebs
But what about my silly question about bots? I seriously want to know what I'm missing if other peoples' bots are staying at range.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Hello all,
I was just wondering which pets are the toughest? I understand that Bots is supposed to be OK vs. Smashing/Lethal but I was just wondering if anyone has actually looked?