Death_Badger

I would replace an accuracy in attacks with an end reducer, thanks to the targeting drone, and would put the 2 slots in health in to the drone for extra to hit buffs

The choice is yours, both powers add their full percentages to regen and recovery, respectively.

Agree Hammerfall, all too often I've been in teams with tanks who herd needlessly when often the best course of action is jumping into a group of mobs and getting aggro.

Of course the third type of tank is those who only look after themselves and are scared of dieing. often called Scrankers, unless you are going to solo a lot I don't see the point in that type of build unless you are frightened of debt

[ QUOTE ]
Energy Sword, Electric Hammer, Psionic Weaponry were amongst the new ideas suggested by Positron in that poll. There's definately more sets coming for Tankers/Scrappers, hopefully in the next issue.

Personally I'd like any good Single-Target set with Build Up that isn't based on Smashing or Lethal damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Problem with psi weaponry would be that either the damage output would need to be lower than any of the current scrapper sets or be split into part SL/part Psi, and you would struggle vs Arachnos, Council Robots, a lot of the praetorians etc

I think the best we can hope for is something SL plus energy

Its a bit like saying I hate brutes that build their fury.

You don't have to farm with a fire/kin. I don't have a fire/kin and do just fine for inf, I've fully kitted out 3 50s with IOs in 4 weeks. You can farm with whatever you want. No one is forcing you to play your fire/kin.

I really have no problem with what people choose to level and what they choose to do with their time in game as long as they don't bother me, I don't bother them

I teamed with a L20 Fire tank a while ago who had taken Whirlwind as his L20 power...Didn't work too well with Burning Aura

And more recently I teamed with:

A Low 40s Invuln tank who despite having all of the toggle powers only ran Invincibility and Unstoppable when available

A L20 Invuln tank who only had the passive resists

A L22 Invuln tank with no unyielding

Problem is gimped tanks are more noticeable than other classes as they play such a pivotal role in a good team

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you want AoE, go Spines/Dark

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much the maxed out AOE powersetcombo, but it will be pretty hard to play in the early game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prior to 22 don't take damage auras, take plenty of single target attacks, then respec into AOE build would be my advice (thats what I did on my spines/dark)

After returning to the game for the first time since I7 a few weeks ago I have only just dusted down my MM to get him levelling ready for the RWZ (currently almost L33)

He is merc/traps. I find that Triage Beacon really doesn't help in keeping my troops alive due to burst damage. The medic is next to useless. I am considering Aid Other.

Just wondered about what other /traps MMs do with regard to healing the minions.

I can bring either a DM/Regen scrapper, Spines/Regen Scrapper, AR/Energy Blaster, or Ill/Emp Troller dependent on team needs

I think an increase in aggro cap would show the weakness of a fire tanks primary.

Other tanks would cope much more easily with bigger mobs

[ QUOTE ]

I am not yet fully IOed (with the sets I mean) but currently cannot withstand 8 team damage for long if the damage is anything other than S/L.

So, in those senarios I don`t always taunt.


[/ QUOTE ]

THIS is what causes me to question your abilities as a tank

You have stated that you are unable to cope with an 8 man team spawn and try to lose aggro

Any tank worth his place in the team knows that their job is vital in keeping the team alive, failure to actually hold aggro results in team wipes. A tank is far more surviveable than any other AT

I have never said that you can't tank. You said it yourself in the opening post of the thread

I have, however, said that you don't seem to understand game mechanics, which again you have agreed earlier in this thread.

I have not called you any names. You have resorted to calling me names rather than actually providing a counter argument against those that disagree with you.

In order to call for a change to a particular powerset you need to know how other powersets in the AT perform. As you have stated, you have never played any other form of tank. Therefore what you are calling for could completely unbalance the game. But you have no idea whether that is the case as you have not done the work needed in order to make such a bold statement that Invulnerability needs an improvement.

Apparently on the US forums they actually provide details of why they think INV tanks (or whatever other powerset/AT) should be changed

You have provided absolutely no proof that INV tanks underperform in relation to any other tank/AT (in fact datamining from the devs show that it blasters who underperform in relation to other ATs hence the open discussion on Defiance)

ANY tank can solo on invincible without a problem unless they have a gimped build. To improve any aspect of any tank would make the game even easier for them. Every tank other than granite form can have trouble with 8 man spawns, but hey thats what team mates are there for. If there was no challenge the game would have died. If tanks could still do what they could prior to I5 then it would be City of Tanks. Nowadays the game is more diverse and team mates actually have a use.

You state why should you have to keep revisiting your main and changing him...well hey thats life..things change. I for one love the IO system it gives more options and longevity to level 50s. If the game remained static it would be pretty dull.

If you want a mature argument then you need to look at yourself. You have demeaned all European players and forum users with jibes about the big boys (how very mature, sounds like you are back in school). There are fantastic players on these servers. I for one know that Spad knows more about tanks than just about anyone and Max seems to be the font of all knowledge with regards to the game system. You have failed to provide any proof to back up any of your arguments and you have failed to convince most people following this thread that you are actually aware of the role of a tank. These are the facts. Yet you are the one who resorts to the level of personal attacks. If you want people to respect your opinion then give us a reason to.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...
Endurance is a major problem for me with an AR/Dark, with all the toggles for /dark going ...



[/ QUOTE ]

dark miasma only has 1 toggle

[/ QUOTE ]

well i can think of 2, the stealth one and darkest night

You really don't have a clue about tanking do you?

You don't have any concept of defense, aggro caps, taunt auras or even the basic principle of how aggro works

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the effect set bonuses can have on tanks nowadays

If you feel you have a weakness then that can be addressed through set bonuses (psi res or defence) or your strengths can be improved upon (some of the + positional def set bonuses stacked can add up quite quickly)

Lionsbane,

unless you actually know how the game system works it is ridiculous to ask for changes (and it seems you are unaware how def works)

unless you are aware how other sets in an AT work then it it is ridiculous to call for a change to one of them

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fire tanks have heavier end use and have less defense vs psionics as they have no +HP power


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you just write what I think you wrote..

No +HP Power..

Are you yanking my chain - what about healing flames!

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when does healing flames add to max HP?

Fire tanks can only hit the resistance cap vs fire, they have only one shield vs energy which gives around 47% resistance

Fire tanks have heavier end use and have less defense vs psionics as they have no +HP power

Only a percentage of rikti have psi damage

Most scrappers do significantly less damage against a large percentage of the opposition (including Rikti)

I think tanks are pretty nicely balanced at the minute (other than Granite)

Suggestions on improvements welcome

I have all but the Entropic Chaos set, I have decided against healing sets as the cost is far too high for me to justify. I will probably get them at some point after my other 50s are IOd up

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.20
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Empathy
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- G'Wdw-Acc/Rchg:53(A), G'Wdw-EndRdx/Hold:53(3), G'Wdw-Acc/EndRdx:53(3), G'Wdw-Hold/Rng:53(5), Para-EndRdx/Hold:30(5), Para-Hold/Rng:30(7)
Level 1: Healing Aura -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(7), Heal-I:50(9), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:53(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:53(9), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:53(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:53(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(13), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13)
Level 4: Heal Other -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(15), Heal-I:50(15), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 6: Deceive -- Mlais-Acc/Rchg:53(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf:53(17), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx:53(17), Mlais-Conf/Rng:53(19), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg:53(19), Mlais-Dam%:53(21)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:53(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:53(21), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:53(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:53(23), RedFtn-Def:53(25), RedFtn-EndRdx:53(25)
Level 10: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(27), RechRdx-I:50(27)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29), RechRdx-I:50(29), Dmg-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(33), EndMod-I:50(33)
Level 22: Fortitude -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(33), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), RedFtn-Def:50(45), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(50)
Level 24: Resurrect -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 26: Clear Mind -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 28: Recovery Aura -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(34), RechRdx-I:50(34)
Level 30: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Acc/Rchg:53(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear:53(36), Abys-Acc/EndRdx:53(36), Abys-Fear/Rng:53(36), Abys-Dam%:53(37)
Level 32: Phantasm -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:53(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:53(37), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:53(39), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:53(39), BldM'dt-Acc:53(39), BldM'dt-Dmg:53(40)
Level 35: Regeneration Aura -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(40), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 38: Adrenalin Boost -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(42), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 41: Hover -- Srng-Fly:53(A), Frbd-Stlth:53(42), Srng-EndRdx/Fly:53(43), Frbd-Fly:50(43)
Level 44: Power Blast -- Entrpc-Acc/Dmg:35(A), Entrpc-Dmg/EndRdx:35(45), Entrpc-Dmg/Rchg:35(45), Entrpc-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(46), Entrpc-Heal%:35(46), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+6.5% DamageBuff[*]+0.95% Defense(Fire)[*]+0.95% Defense(Cold)[*]+2.5% Defense(Energy)[*]+14.4% Defense(Ranged)[*]+3.75% Defense(AoE)[*]+4.5% Max Endurance[*]+16% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+2.5% Enhancement(Confused)[*]+28.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)[*]+4% FlySpeed[*]+45.2 (3.75%) HitPoints[*]+4% JumpSpeed[*]+MezResist(Confused) (Mag 2.75%)[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 4.4%)[*]+MezResist(Stun) (Mag 1.65%)[*]+8% Recovery[*]+18% Regeneration[*]+2.52% Resistance(Fire)[*]+2.52% Resistance(Cold)[*]+9% RunSpeed[/list]------------
[u]Set Bonuses:[u]
[u]Ghost Widow's Embrace[u]
(Blind)<ul type="square">[*] +5% RunSpeed[*] +22.6 (1.88%) HitPoints[*] +2.25% Max Max Endurance[/list][u]Paralytic[u]
(Blind)<ul type="square">[*] +1% Recovery[/list][u]Thunderstrike[u]
(Spectral Wounds)<ul type="square">[*] +2% Recovery[*] +2.5% Defense(Energy)[*] +7% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] +4% Movement Increase[*] +2.5% Defense(Ranged)[/list][u]Malaise's Illusions[u]
(Deceive)<ul type="square">[*] +2.5% Recovery[*] +2.5% Enhancement(Confused)[*] +2.5% DamageBuff[*] +6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*] +3.13% Defense(Ranged)[/list][u]Red Fortune[u]
(Superior Invisibility)<ul type="square">[*] +MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%)[*] +1.26% Res(Fire, Cold)[*] +2% DamageBuff[*] +5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*] +2.5% Defense(Ranged)[/list][u]Red Fortune[u]
(Fortitude)<ul type="square">[*] +MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%)[*] +1.26% Res(Fire, Cold)[*] +2% DamageBuff[*] +5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*] +2.5% Defense(Ranged)[/list][u]Glimpse of the Abyss[u]
(Spectral Terror)<ul type="square">[*] +2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)[*] +22.6 (1.88%) HitPoints[*] +9% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*] +6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list][u]Blood Mandate[u]
(Phantasm)<ul type="square">[*] +1.5% Recovery[*] +0.945% Def( Fire, Cold)[*] +MezResist(Stun) (Mag 1.65%)[*] +3.75% Defense(AoE)[*] +3.75% Defense(Ranged)[/list][u]Soaring[u]
(Hover)<ul type="square">[*] +1% Recovery[/list][u]Freebird[u]
(Hover)<ul type="square">[*] +8% Regeneration[/list][u]Entropic Chaos[u]
(Power Blast)<ul type="square">[*] +10% Regeneration[*] +MezResist(Confused) (Mag 2.75%)[*] +2.25% Max Max Endurance[*] +6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[/list]


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Horrible colours

With a +recovery IO and Power Sink taken much earlier and slotted 2-3 rech and 2-3 endmod you will not need stamina

Any tank will feel squishy until SOs, you won't really see any benefit from tough imo. Your end usage will be extremely high, best waiting until after stamina before adding another toggle

Any buffing corruptor would be nice, though a dark/kin would excell thanks to -acc on attacks and fulcrum shift etc