Any tank will feel squishy until SOs, you won't really see any benefit from tough imo. Your end usage will be extremely high, best waiting until after stamina before adding another toggle
I would wait for it at least after Stamina and SO's. Fire has something Inv dont have, healing flames 
(dull pain is like once every 2 minutes?). Slot that big time to survive until you can pick tough.
In teams i have tough running, but only against mobs that i know that do alot SL damage (freaks, warriors and sortlike). Solo i never run tough, spawns die fast and healing flames is your big friend. It makes you alot tougher then without, although it really depend on the mobs (CoT is way more elemental, where tough has little effect).
Consume is a good help power for end issues, but remember it has a to-hit. Your biggest enemies remain -enddrain and -recharge mobs.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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(dull pain is like once every 2 minutes?)
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The duration of the HP Boost is 2 minutes, the power itself is up every 3 minutes with Normal Slotting (Or just under every 2 minutes on my current IO'ed-out build... Perma-HP-Cap plus +regen bonuses is FUN kids!! 
)
Fire is the only primary that will get much benefit from IO slotting for +MaxHP bonuses. The other primaries all have a "Dull Pain" clone which (combined with accolades and properly slotted) will cap their HP.
Concerning the OP, my INV tanker didn't take tough until the late 20s (and skipped RPD until the 40s), and he didn't miss it. Warrior Bosses and Freakshow tankers are the only things that should bother you. You'll get a lot of benefit from it later on though once you encounter DE, and it REALLY helps against AVs... 
got a fire/fire tank too and found her to be quite fragile and tough is a big help,with it a feel more like a tank then a scrapper, but like death said i would wait till after stamine to get it otherwise endurance is a big problem even with consume.
I would say tough is a wise pick. It is end heavy until SO's of course but then what tanker toggle isnt. It does make a lot of difference. As long as you balance your build just right with Healing flames slotted 3 heal 3 recharge and hasten you can become pretty damn hard to kill in both pvp and pve. Weave is another underestimated power IMO. people look at the numbers and go EEEWWWW thats weak, but again its those few extra % that can save your behind in a tight spot. Not to mention that Weave is resistance to EVERYTHING which until You get a full IO build means you actually get some PSI resistance and of course toxic which will save you from having to stack Healing flames when fighting hydra and so on.
As others have said id pick up tough when you can get SOs as it is end heavy, or if you want it before then try slotting it with IOs, but yes get it for sure you will need it on a fire tank imo.
i took tough up at 41 and it worked out ok, before then i didnt really see the need for it too much.
@ExtraGonk
yeah, you'll want tough eventually.
to be honest though, pre-SOs fire tanks are actually one of the tougher tankers, as resistance seems to cope with DOs much better than defence does. I'd aim to get tough at 24 personally, meaning you can get fiery embrace at 26 and then FSC at 28 when they first become available.
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After leveling a boring but resilient Invulnerability tanker up to level 28, my Fire tanker feels somewhat squishy and I think Tough should be a must... but in the other hand I try to tank a lot of enemies (too many) at the same time. The lure of having them all around me and fry them with Blazing Aura and Combustion is... well, difficult to resist.
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Those attacks only hit 10, unless you have a blaster, defender or controller etc helping you to keep a fight duration down its not always best to go above that.
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The duration of the HP Boost is 2 minutes, the power itself is up every 3 minutes with Normal Slotting (Or just under every 2 minutes on my current IO'ed-out build... Perma-HP-Cap plus +regen bonuses is FUN kids!! )
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Similar to what its already like with haste and teaming with a empath or even a kin. "I'd imagine"
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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After leveling a boring but resilient Invulnerability tanker up to level 28, my Fire tanker feels somewhat squishy and I think Tough should be a must... but in the other hand I try to tank a lot of enemies (too many) at the same time. The lure of having them all around me and fry them with Blazing Aura and Combustion is... well, difficult to resist.
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Those attacks only hit 10, unless you have a blaster, defender or controller etc helping you to keep a fight duration down its not always best to go above that.
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The duration of the HP Boost is 2 minutes, the power itself is up every 3 minutes with Normal Slotting (Or just under every 2 minutes on my current IO'ed-out build... Perma-HP-Cap plus +regen bonuses is FUN kids!! )
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Similar to what its already like with haste and teaming with a empath or even a kin. "I'd imagine"
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this could be me getting it wrong, but i was under the impression that the way the tohit calculation works means that the cap is applied after the tohit, so the more badguys around you, the better your effective accuracy with your PBAoEs...
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After leveling a boring but resilient Invulnerability tanker up to level 28, my Fire tanker feels somewhat squishy and I think Tough should be a must... but in the other hand I try to tank a lot of enemies (too many) at the same time. The lure of having them all around me and fry them with Blazing Aura and Combustion is... well, difficult to resist.
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Those attacks only hit 10, unless you have a blaster, defender or controller etc helping you to keep a fight duration down its not always best to go above that.
[ QUOTE ]
The duration of the HP Boost is 2 minutes, the power itself is up every 3 minutes with Normal Slotting (Or just under every 2 minutes on my current IO'ed-out build... Perma-HP-Cap plus +regen bonuses is FUN kids!! )
[/ QUOTE ]
Similar to what its already like with haste and teaming with a empath or even a kin. "I'd imagine"
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this could be me getting it wrong, but i was under the impression that the way the tohit calculation works means that the cap is applied after the tohit, so the more badguys around you, the better your effective accuracy with your PBAoEs...
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I think he means the inv tohit toggle, but the other guy was refering to the max 10 hit of the fire AoE powers.
Or something.. i gues..
meeh, i dunno
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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I think he means the inv tohit toggle, but the other guy was refering to the max 10 hit of the fire AoE powers.
Or something.. i gues..
meeh, i dunno
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this could be total rubbish.. but from what i recall there is a quirk in the game engine (due to attack hit caps being an addition to the game, rather than in it from the start), whereby it applies the tohit calculation first and then only applies the cap to the number of bad guys who passed the tohit check.
The way i used to presume it happened, was that the cap was applied before the tohit:
if you have 50% netTohit and 20 bad guys around you, the cap is 10, so the ToHit check is applied to those. 5 of them pass the ToHit check, so you hit five.
however the way it actually works, afaik:
if you have 50% netTohit and 10 bad guys around you, 5 pass the ToHit check, all ten count towards the cap, so you hit five
if you have 50% netTohit and 20 bad guys around you, 10 pass the ToHit check, but only the ten who passed ToHit are eligable to count towards the cap, so you hit ten
therefore, the more badguys around you, the higher your effective attack accuracy is.
but like i said, this could be total rubbish.. and i've just come back from the pub so am not even too sure if i understand myself tbh... i spent an age half-heartedly trying to read up on tohit, acc and defence a few months ago.. think this was in some massive dissertation on tohit calculations on the US forums, but i'll be damned if i can use the search on these message boards when sober, never mind in a state of mild inebriation
if anyone knows what the heck i'm goin on about, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong
Bridger:
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Nope. It works the way others have described, so in the example of 20 mobs, 50% chance to hit and cap of 10, it checks the first target for a hit, then the next target, then the next and so on until either (a) 10 targets are hit or (b) there are no more unchecked targets remaining in the AoE.
I think that in the case of AoEs, the game starts checking at the centre of the area and works outwards to the edge, and in the case of Cones, I think it starts with the targets closest to the entity using the power and moves out away from them.
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i dunno why i am so lazy.
With my firetanker if solo and its on unyielding I herd 10 in the direction I am going and i defeat 10, I dont count, its more of a rough count but usually things go as planned. From 20 onwards this has been doable with struggles with Tsoo and Banished Pantheon mainly who tohit and acc debuff but after a while with a few more slots they go down comfortably. Build up at 22 was good for tohit and also my psuedo stamina. I do more damage per end and therefore I saved on attacks and lowered fight duration.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
After getting my latest tank project invul/stone to 48, I started YET another tank... Fire/Ice. Tough is in my build plan tho atound later 30ish. (pretty much at the same time as my other tanks that gotten tough) Being ice melee and ice patch migrating quite a bounch of the incomin' dmg Tough might be able to take a wee bit later compared to pure fire tank. Tho as said earlier takin' tough as soon as pre-20 is imo a lil too early even for a pure fire tank (tho got no experience to back up my statement with fire/fire)
Quite enjoying the Fire tank and have some pwetty cool plans for it.
It all depends on what you plan to do with your tank. i.e to use Bloody bay or not. My first fire tank, Igniter Fire/EM i took tough early because in bloody bay theres just too few ways of avoiding the Assassin strike happy Stalkers, so the only thing you can do is be hard enough to take the high dmg output they have. that combined with healing flames and hasten, you are pretty much able to stand there and laugh at a stalker all day.
However if Bloody Bay hadnt been part of my plan for this toon i would have left Tough until about lvl 32 ish also
very valid point Thundorn
i only take it early because i want the other big powers when they appear, and i prefer to get my defence sorted before i work on offense. Fire tanks can easily slot tough in at 32, cause most don't take RoTP
Have been included to use this set in my build again...from memroy the last time i had it in use was around i7..
Might have to respec it back in and see how it all goes!!
Hello.
I am trying to refine the build for my Fire/Fire tanker (now at level 15) and wanted to know if Tough is a topmost priority or if it can wait for some levels.
I have two different builds: one has Tough at level 16 and the other at level 32. Will I be much more durable once I have Tough?
After leveling a boring but resilient Invulnerability tanker up to level 28, my Fire tanker feels somewhat squishy and I think Tough should be a must... but in the other hand I try to tank a lot of enemies (too many) at the same time. The lure of having them all around me and fry them with Blazing Aura and Combustion is... well, difficult to resist.
I wish some experienced Fire tankers could give me their advice regarding this.