Cuffzter

Ive tanked my main all the way to 50 before i repsecced in taunt eventually. During all that time I only had one (1) complaint off not being able to hold aggro... and that was from a triggerhappy blaster who for the remainder of that team only had to wait one more second for me to consolidate aggro before running in and blasting off his nova. After that, the team ran smoothly again.

In the end, i specced in taunt as it opened up a whole new line of possible duties for me to perform. Like tanking hami or keeping the arachnos flyer of the team as they fought LR in the STF.

So when anyone says that can tank fine without taunt, i dont get that knee-jerk reaction of "f00l, g3t t4unt n0w!!" but gives them then chance to prove themselves to show that they can do without. Of course.. there are some sets I'd prefer having taunt if they are gonna tank. Like a Stone in Granite (as they cant move around quickly enough with their mudpots) or Willpower (as the aura has notoriously short duration)

If anything makes my kettle run over is the invuln tank who HAVE taunt but not Invincibility... these are the tanks i just want to strangle..

Now theres the catch 22 GR, none of us in the SG can log in a SG toon since we KEEP CRASHING!

we can petition from alts not in the SG, or out of game like this on the forum. (both of which we have done)

but we are unable to use any SG toon to report the problem

yea.. im one of those in Wars SG... there goes 7 alts i cant use until this is fixed :/

yes, at the moment the same thing has happend to a level 22 blaster of mine, it loads 20% of talos and then crash.

my main, a 50 tanker is not affected.
im gonna check which else are affected

the option to, if you are the creator, reopen the mish and do changes (like fixing typos in the dialog and such)

Because i doubt the devs will be so keen on going thru thousands of missions just spellchecking.

Dinged my first 50 against Diabolique in that map with the graveyard. I was fighting her af the time, so it couldve been her or one of her minions. She runs around a lot meaning you pick up all sorts of enemies.

Inv/Em 50
WP/DB in the 40s
D/D recently rolled

that math went a liiittle by me.. so I'll just respond to the items that were more clear.

The broken attack chain.
im not so much for planning attack chains as I figure combat is situational so theres not much need to figure out "the most efficient attack chain evah!" since I'll never get to use it. I'd rather play by guts or instinct than in a "programmed pattern" since it makes it easier for me to adapt due to situational events -but maybe thats just me..

any holes in the attack chain I fill up with things like Taunt and the odd temporary power, like sands of Mu, Nemesis staff, Rune of warding, Pistol and so on..
Its rarely i dont have any button recharged.

dont know if it will help u, but i did that "unleash hell" and this is what i got.

not using conserve energy but hasten and all 6 toggles it took me 1 minute 17 sec to lose all end.

if using conserve energy at the beginning (i think i could get more time if i used it towards the end as then i would get back more energy than i spend.) i lasted 2min 33 sec

with all 6 toggles on, it takes me 55 sec to get to full end without attacking or using conerve energy

The endurance drain isnt that bad really, even with 6 toggles running all the time and hasten. The +recovery from miracle and Numina's pretty nice, as well as the +end from performance shifter.
If i do get end issues thats when i use conserve energy or Unstoppable even if its due to end sapping mobs.

But I see your point of "do you really need that extra resistance enhancement in Temp inv for instance" and yea, if i had a better idea of where to put that particular slot i would. removing one of these slots would set me back a measly 1.1% resistance, which i think i could live with
removing a res in unyileding would drop me a 0.1 % in smash/lethal and 0.3-0.4 in the other resists. so i guess theres room for tweaking

and no, Im afraid I wont let you in on my account password (if thats what you mean by "play with it", generating ideas on tweaking however is another matter )

For comparison, here is what my main tankers build is with a similar choice of powers.
Not quite par with Phobos numbers, but theres no purples in this set so a lot more affordable.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability
(A) HamiO:Ribosome Exposure
(3) Resist Damage IO: Level 50
(3) Resist Damage IO: Level 50
(48) Resist Damage IO: Level 50


Level 1: Barrage
(A) Accuracy IO: Level 50


Level 2: Resist Physical Damage
(A) Resist Damage IO: Level 50
(5) Resist Damage IO: Level 50
(5) Impervious Skin - Status Resistance: Level 30
(50) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance: Level 50


Level 4: Dull Pain
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
(7) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(7) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 50
(11) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 50


Level 6: Bone Smasher
(A) Stupefy - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
(11) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(15) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(15) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50


Level 8: Unyielding
(A) Resist Damage IO: Level 50
(17) Resist Damage IO: Level 50
(17) HamiO:Ribosome Exposure
(50) Resist Damage IO: Level 50


Level 10: Taunt
(A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt: Level 50
(19) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range: Level 50
(19) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range: Level 50
(21) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage: Level 50


Level 12: Air Superiority
(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(21) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(23) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(23) Accuracy IO: Level 50
(25) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(50) Damage Increase IO: Level 50


Level 14: Fly
(A) Freebird - Endurance: Level 50
(25) Freebird - FlySpeed: Level 50
(27) HamiO:Microfilament Exposure


Level 16: Swift
(A) Flight Speed IO: Level 50


Level 18: Invincibility
(A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
(27) Red Fortune - Defense: Level 50
(29) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge: Level 50
(29) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(31) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(31) Taunt Duration IO: Level 50


Level 20: Health
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50
(31) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
(33) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50


Level 22: Stamina
(A) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
(33) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
(33) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50


Level 24: Whirling Hands
(A) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(34) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(34) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
(34) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
(36) Accuracy IO: Level 50
(36) Damage Increase IO: Level 50


Level 26: Tough Hide
(A) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
(37) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50


Level 28: Build Up
(A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 50
(37) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(37) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(39) Adjusted Targeting - Recharge: Level 50


Level 30: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
(39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
(39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 32: Unstoppable
(A) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge: Level 50
(40) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
(40) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 35: Energy Transfer
(A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
(40) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(42) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(42) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(42) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(43) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50


Level 38: Total Focus
(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
(43) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
(43) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50


Level 41: Conserve Power
(A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 44: Maneuvers
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
(46) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
(46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
(46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50


Level 47: Tactics
(A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff: Level 50
(48) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50


Level 49: Assault
(A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50


------------
Level 1: Brawl
(A) Empty


Level 1: Sprint
(A) Celerity - RunSpeed: Level 50
(48) Celerity - +Stealth: Level 50


Level 2: Rest
(A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
+15% DamageBuff
+3,75% Defense(Ranged)
+34% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+4% Enhancement(Heal)
+35% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
+5% FlySpeed
+81,3 (6,75%) HitPoints
+5% JumpSpeed
+MezResist(Confused) (Mag 27,5%)
+MezResist(Held) (Mag 34,1%)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 44%)
+MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 27,5%)
+MezResist(Stun) (Mag 27,5%)
+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 32,5%)
+60% Regeneration
+2,52% Resistance(Fire)
+2,52% Resistance(Cold)
+1,26% Resistance(Energy)
+4,39% Resistance(Negative)
+1,26% Resistance(Toxic)
+4,26% Resistance(Psionic)
+5% RunSpeed






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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Q: But isn’t there some stuff that will work in the regular costume creator.

Yep, but only a few. Let’s take the widow for example. Most of the widow stuff will work in the regular costume creator except the chest piece and high collar. So, if I put all the pieces that will work in the regular costume creator the player would then ask “Well this stuff got in there why not the other stuff?” It’s a slippery slope and the costume creator would get sloppy. So the VEAT has its own costume creator and the regular costume creator stays the same and never shall the two merge.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Q: Well then, why don’t you just port all the stuff that will work into the VEAT costume creator?

If I was to do this then we would basically have two costume creators. One regular costume creator and other one to accommodate for the VEAT costume pieces. Again, very sloppy and unprofessional.

[/ QUOTE ]

Er... wow, way to follow your own logic there Jay.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I understand his logic here..

The VEAT costume creator is just a fraction, a very small part of the TRUE costume creator. So small, it can't really be called a costume creator at all.
It also dont take up much space with all the variant costume parts ( i think)
But suddenly adding all the stuff that does work would make this "almost-costume-creator" into a "Full-blown-costume-creator" and while its certainly possible.. it would make the ordinary costume creator obsolete, and give none-VEATs access to all the SoA cossie parts.

heres a little anecdote about some experience i made on a Eden trial. In the team there was two tanks, my invuln and a Stone tank.

It could have been due to some in the group knowing the Stoner but I got the feeling like they had greater expectations of his tank than my Inv. Any Tanker task seemed to rest on the Stone by default, even if it was something I could do better.
For instance, like pulling the Quarries which are big bad monsters down the holes instead of fighting them.
I have Flight, and 4 slotted taunt, ive got great resists against S/L which is what the Monsters main damage type..

and yet they ask the mighty GRANITE to do it...
Because obviously Stone is better than Inv...

I waited a minute or two before flying in and taunting the two quarries down the hole...

Granted I had to use Unstoppable when we got ZERGed after beating the crystal titan, but I went toe to toe with the granite for the entire onslaught.

[ QUOTE ]
Erm... Footstomp is a fairly wide, high-damage PBAoE knockDOWN attack and is one of the best means for a Superstrength toon to hold aggo. I could easily tank for an 8-man team just by spamming Footstomp. That said, I'd drop taunt before I dropped either Footstomp or Invincibility. Invincibility is simply too good a defence buff to pass up, and Footstomp is only available to a Tanker after level 38.


[/ QUOTE ]

hmm, my bad then, it says knockBACK in MIDs, at least in my version. Other than that, I agree that its great to get aggro with, after all, i use the PB version all the time to draw some heat away from the squishes.
What I meant was that "if you only rely on taunt and gauntlet to get aggro, and dont have your aura, a power like footstomp might scare you off from using it as it looks like it makes minions fly all over the place and make you lose control over their aggro," -as we've already established that the player in question DONT have the best understanding of game mechanics..

as i only took a quick glance, checking out his primaries its also possible that he indeed took footstomp and passed on hurl instead..

I saw this particular player the other nigth again, he had gain a couple of levels so I peeked anew on his powers list. To my satisfaction he had appearantly caved in and gotten invincibility (yay) probably instead of footstomp. (makes sense, when you have such poor agroholding capabilities with just taunt and gauntlet, a PBAoE knockback power is not on your list of powers you want.)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Normally im one to happily point out the errors of someones ways if they appear new and still learning.. but this was a 33 month veteran.. so i didnt pursue the subject. Even if I have seniority over him, its only by 6 months and at that stage to start an argument is only to see who has the longest reproductive organ.

[/ QUOTE ]Veterancy != Understanding of game mechanics

[/ QUOTE ]seniority ????? i been playing for 18mths, but i would never class my self better to a 3mth. with that state it make you sound pig head for you been here longer then other, been here longer then someone else don't make you i know it all AT types.

it like the WP/DB tankers came out, i had a lvl 50 WP/DB tanker which was a 36 mths VET tell me how to do my WP/DB tanker, i knew more about the my will power then his for he got his P LVL in the 1st few weeks of getting it. seniority only promots pig headness

and what i seen of invincibility it isn't

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if its aimed at me or at MaX.

If its at MaX I understood from the start that he meant "does not equal to"

If its against me, I know perfectly well that just because Ive been here longer doesnt make me an expert at playing ATs better than someone who only have 6 months but have played that AT for all that time.

But, the likelihood that someone who has been here for 3 years have played the game to 50, have tried out several ATs and so have a more varied experience, discussed powers and ATs with friends or on forums. Have researched the AT he has chosen, planned different builds with Mids. Have played together with other people with the powerset he is trying out and so have learned from them, and getting a good understanding of game mechanics.

that chance is so much greater with a 33month veteran than a 3 month veteran.. so that you can more often than not expect that they probably know something of what theyre talking about.

What I was trying to say was that I never look down on those who lacks veterancy. It dont take long to be proficient in this game if you do your research. theres also the chance that that character with no badges is someones 2nd account and whos been here since Beta..

But I guess i just had to high expectations of someone whs been here for years to actually do some research and get a understanding on what powers do and how theyre used when they roll a toon.

i now remember more of his reasoning. Appearantly he didn't think Defense was any good and so was trying to go all Resist.

So i was on a team tonight with a invuln tank in the 30s..
after it being pointed out to him that he didnt have his taunt aura he explained that it was because, if i remember correctly "it not living up to his expecations", as in "not useful" enough... (maybe the tank in question can explain his reasons better if he reads this)
Normally im one to happily point out the errors of someones ways if they appear new and still learning.. but this was a 33 month veteran.. so i didnt pursue the subject. Even if I have seniority over him, its only by 6 months and at that stage to start an argument is only to see who has the longest reproductive organ.


so anyway.. are there any else who are dissatisfied with invincibility? Am I only fooling myself into believing you cant be a tank without your aggro aura?
The guy DID have taunt and he DID managed to keep the aggro in check mostly, so he wasnt a total scrankhead.

Has there been a paradigm shift in tanking from tauntless tanks to tauntaura-less tanks ive missed?

someone, please help me

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's like food, how do you know how it taste like before youve tried it?
CHILDREN refuse to eat...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like mushrooms.

I don't need to eat every kind of mushroom under the sun to know that I don't like mushrooms. I don't like their smell, I don't like their texture, and I especially don't like their taste.

If someone were to say to me "Ahh, but you haven't tried THIS type of mushroom! Go on, you might like it" then I would consider that person to be not worth listening to. And I would not eat their mushroom.

But this is somewhat besides the point. Unless the person offering me the mushroom was completely misinformed about the exact species of that ugly little vegetable, then eating their mushroom would probably not kill me.

What Castle is doing isn't offering someone who doesn't like Mushrooms a few odd-looking Truffles. Rather, he is stuffing peanuts down the throat of someone who has a severe nut allergy.

Superstrength is an endurance-intensive, low-damage melee set. Rage brings it up to par with the damage of other such sets. Tankers/Brutes rely on a steady supply of endurance in order to solo, and to fulfil their role on teams. Superstrength is no exception, and as KO Blow and Footstomp are endurance-intensive and staples of the set, it suffers badly when exposed to ANY form of -recovery. Pair the new Rage with a Defensive set that does not have an endurance drain (Stone, DA, INV, etc.) and you have a recipe for complete disaster.

We do not need to play on test to know that this change is going to have a VERY NEGATIVE INFLUENCE on SS. We do not need to play on test to know there's going to be a massacre, only to determine the bodycount.

That said, I will be going onto test with my INV/SS tanker, and I will be sending a fresh petition each and every time his toggles drop due to a Rage crash. As my INV/SS currently solos Carnie maps on Live and I have no intention of behaving any differently on test, I fully expect the EU test "inbox" to be clogged for a while.

-Maelwys

[/ QUOTE ]


Which is all I (as well as Castle) asked for in the first place.
And if you find it as bad as were all assuming it will be, I'll support every one of of those tickets.
Because those are based on FACTS, not guessing

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So 20% defence drop and 25% endurance drop is not "rough."

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
the 20% defence drop was removed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I know that. I was the one on this thread who announced the test. I was saying that the 20% drop + 25% end drop is plenty rough for a power that basically gives a 2 minute accuracy buff. Don't you think?


[/ QUOTE ]it sounded like you were saying 20& defence drop + 25% end drop and 0% end recovery thus exaggerating the negative effects of the proposed change.. and i think rage gives a damage buff youve neglected to mention..
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
the endurance crash is instead of the defence drop, to balance out the "buff" that the -999% damage really is (compared to how it is at the moment)

[/ QUOTE ]

You've lost me completely. You're saying this as though no one knew what the intention was. We've had 120 posts + the usa site (1000+) to clue us in.

We're saying that :
a) a balance of any despcription is NOT required. All we want is to taunt or grab aggro. Having that factor doesn't throw rage out of whack.

b) A "balance" of zero recovery completely alters the dynamic of the set in an unpleasant way, whatever way you want to look at it. The knockon effects, all of which can be unpleasant, make iot a disproportionate and undesirable response.

It is clearly not wanted. It is clearly going to make the set hard work to manage rather than fun. It has a far bigger net impact on playing style than merely a (almost zero ) damage warrants.

Oh and what do you think of the 15 second drop?
What does THAT balance?


[/ QUOTE ]I think its a bit over the top yes.. but i dont get as passionate about the whole subject, at least not while its still on test, subjected to change at any time.
I'm gonna wait until its tested a bit before i really make up my mind.
It's like food, how do you know how it taste like before youve tried it?
CHILDREN refuse to eat..


[/ QUOTE ]
This entire thing is so surreal, badly though out, disrespectful to our wishes and, quite frankly idiotic, that it's almost not worth talking about. Almost.

I just despair that people capable of thinking like this, then launching a test that they know people won't like, are in charge of the dynamic of the "fun" the game produces.

It's bad bad news.

[/ QUOTE ]


And I despair over people crying dooom without getting on test to try it out first.
Go on test, try it out.. and if you still dont like it, then your argument will have more weight.
Right now you're just panicking..

[ QUOTE ]
So 20% defence drop and 25% endurance drop is not "rough."

[/ QUOTE ]

the 20% defence drop was removed.

which i stated in my previous quotes from castle.

the endurance crash is instead of the defence drop, to balance out the "buff" that the -999% damage really is (compared to how it is at the moment)

more quotes from castle
[ QUOTE ]
Just an update:
I'll be removing the 20% Defense Debuff , and replacing it with a Max Recovery = 0.00% debuff, in addition to the aforementioned change.

EDIT: Consequence of this = Stacking Rage is dangerous! Keep a good supply of Blue inspirations if you plan on doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(QR)
Ok, here's the scoop.

Double Stacked Rage? Not a problem, so long as the cost is commensurate with the benefit.

The changes are meant to do 2 things:
1) Allow the use of your powers during the crash (via elimination of the "only affects self" bit.)
2) Eliminate 'crash' imbalances -- make the crash as equivalent a cost for all powersets involved.

So, why a Recovery debuff? Recovery effects all Powersets roughly equally. In my test, Running 6 toggles including the End Hog Focused Accuracy, and starting at 50% end at the time of the crash, I did not run out of end on my Inv/SS Tanker. I came CLOSE and had to cut back on my attacking, but still had plenty of things I could do.

ANY Tanker/Brute regardless of powerset can offset part of this crash effect by carrying blue inspirations. Performance Shifter: Chance for Endurance is a good choice, as well, since slotted into stamina or a similar power it has a chance of granting End (not Recovery!) to your character. Then, there are powers that grant the caster endurance not to mention Conserve Power.

Yes, the crash is rough. It is supposed to be. It is NOT, however, any worse than a 20% or GREATER drop in Defense coupled with a complete inability to effect others.

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Indeed, I think I even read some comment on the US forums that more or less said that if you by some fantastic means still are able to do any damage with this debuff, you bloody well deserve it...

actually, as you can see in my thread, and in your own link its -999% (ninehundred ninetynine) and not -9999% (ninethousand ninehundred ninetynine)

By castle [ QUOTE ]
Oh, remembered the other thing -- SS Rage "only effect self" period changed to "-999% damage" period.


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