Did a quick test with my invulnerability tank using the combat attributes thingy and just invincibility and tough hide running (both 3 slotted for defense)
First with just tough hide:
ToHit 81%
S/L/F/C/N/E defense 7.85%
Then with invincibility and tough hide while surrounded by 10 bad guys:
ToHit 97%
S/L/F/C/N/E defense 34.52%
Definitely worth taking imo.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
i now remember more of his reasoning. Appearantly he didn't think Defense was any good and so was trying to go all Resist.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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Normally im one to happily point out the errors of someones ways if they appear new and still learning.. but this was a 33 month veteran.. so i didnt pursue the subject. Even if I have seniority over him, its only by 6 months and at that stage to start an argument is only to see who has the longest reproductive organ.
[/ QUOTE ]Veterancy != Understanding of game mechanics
I can't think of my tank without it improves survivability greatly in melee combat but i have heard these words spoken before by players but as MaX pointed out understanding the game mechanics is important especially where invul is concerned a tight nit group will provide a good bonus to defence but other players probably think that invincibilty grants high defence right of the bat.
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
Invincibility is the only thing saving Invul from being helluva useless against fire/cold/energy damage etc... So no, it's still awesome for what it does.
like all taunt auras there are times when i prefer to turn it off, but the defense bonus is so high with multiple enemys, and with added taunt which my invinc has got i find it essential 90% of the time.
When i was leveling my tank (it was my first toon) i hated invince as my build was so bad that if i actually gained any agro i ended up dying hehe
Not everyone comes to the forums to pick up information. Time subscribed doesn't mean time played. Time subscribed can mean the last time he played that Tank Invincibility was bugged, not keeping aggro and so not maintaining defense levels. Nothing in melee does mean poo defense. Taunt control and gauntlet control can mean virtual aggro holding and reasonable survivability although I expect in most cases other people in the team have health bars that are moving up and down and will do even more so with out good control or buffage. That can still happen with the tanks who have an aura though, as foes still have to get affected by it.
I don't know about anyone else but as an Invuln player I have come across players who immobilised spread groups. At times they are spread and I still have attention except with less defense which means I have less survivability.
They are so spread also that no ones AoEs be they controls, debuffs or damage properly stack and it could be the damage aoes are hitting uncontrolled foes whilst the control aoes are hitting the debuffed foes. When you want damage hitting those debuffed with out aggro going towards anyone. It can also mean a much longer drawn out fight.
Scenario: A map full of paragon protectors. Invulns love PPs. They take time to defeat and can if off a good level walk over squishies instantly. It makes sense for the Invuln to have the PPs all over them so they can't walk over a squishie, so that they all get debuffed for less defense, resist etc and so that all damage AoEs that when on more enemies do much more damage per endurance than single target attacks to and stack.
The invuln tank is coerced into playing a certain way in order to offer the dynamic to suit the ATs reason for being.
Up against the most challenging of groups with the less buffed of teams the additional defense becomes good although you have to do your job to get it. It can be the taunt, hide for no alpha, have the enemy come one by one pretty much, staggering the rate at which they attack for a slower loss of health whilst defense is gradually built until the maximum amount is in the aura. They become taunted and everyone else is free to be within perception range and attack without chance of getting aggro. Its best for the Tank to taunt the last to come and then use his/her heaviest hits before people start.
AoE immobs on spread groups by daft controllers wind me up. They often do more for the team dead. Less is more.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about anyone else but as an Invuln player I have come across players who immobilised spread groups. At times they are spread and I still have attention except with less defense which means I have less survivability.
They are so spread also that no ones AoEs be they controls, debuffs or damage properly stack and it could be the damage aoes are hitting uncontrolled foes whilst the control aoes are hitting the debuffed foes. When you want damage hitting those debuffed with out aggro going towards anyone. It can also mean a much longer drawn out fight.
...
AoE immobs on spread groups by daft controllers wind me up. They often do more for the team dead. Less is more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen to that...
AoE immobs are like scatter powers. If they are used incorrectly ( as they often are ) they can nullify most of the the advanatages a tank brings to the team. Used correctly they are good powers though.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Ditto AoE Knockback.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
I'd definitely take Invincibility for the defense, but my experiences with damageless taunt auras has left me feeling pretty underwhelmed about their ability to control threat. If he had a PBAoE or two from his secondary then I don't see why he'd need it for threat control.
I think you'd have to be crazy to pass on Invincibility's defense, though. It's situational, sure, but it can grant you silly amounts of defense-based protection in an otherwise resistance-based set. I'd almost say it was a defining power in invulnerability - it shapes the way they react and the circumstances under which they're vulnerable, it helps to make up for the weak passives.
Still, some people just don't get along with some powers, and there's no single right way to build your character. Friends with the right buffs or good use of inspirations can make up for a lot.
With Unyielding/Weave/Combat Jumping running, at level 50 -
"Womble" without Invincibility: 17.7% Defence
"Womble" with Invincibility (1 mob in range): 28.1% Defence
"Womble" with Invincibility (8 mobs in range): 44.9% Defence
"Womble" with Invincibility (10 mobs in range): 49.6% Defence
Womble is my INV/SS. Yes, he probably could hold aggro with just Footstomp (never mind Taunt). Invincibility makes it much easier though, and I'd never ever give up the +Defence buff. Capped S/L resists, +Regen Bonuses and Perma Dull Pain are nice, but more often than not it's the +Defence that keeps me upright at high levels.
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[ QUOTE ]
Normally im one to happily point out the errors of someones ways if they appear new and still learning.. but this was a 33 month veteran.. so i didnt pursue the subject. Even if I have seniority over him, its only by 6 months and at that stage to start an argument is only to see who has the longest reproductive organ.
[/ QUOTE ]Veterancy != Understanding of game mechanics
[/ QUOTE ]seniority ????? i been playing for 18mths, but i would never class my self better to a 3mth. with that state it make you sound pig head for you been here longer then other, been here longer then someone else don't make you i know it all AT types.
it like the WP/DB tankers came out, i had a lvl 50 WP/DB tanker which was a 36 mths VET tell me how to do my WP/DB tanker, i knew more about the my will power then his for he got his P LVL in the 1st few weeks of getting it. seniority only promots pig headness
and what i seen of invincibility it isn't
!= means "Does Not Equal"
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
!= means "Does Not Equal"
[/ QUOTE ]
Since when?
I actually had to read it and give it the benefit of the doubt. I am sooooooo used to having what I say get taken the worst way possible 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
!= means "Does Not Equal"
[/ QUOTE ]
Since when?
I actually had to read it and give it the benefit of the doubt. I am sooooooo used to having what I say get taken the worst way possible
[/ QUOTE ]
OK it does when MaX types it at least. I dont recall seeing others use it so maybe its just one of his quirks
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
!= means "Does Not Equal"
[/ QUOTE ]
Since when?
[/ QUOTE ]Since always?
It's quite commonly used, easier to type than =/=, or ≠ which isn't even supported on these forums for that matter.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
!= means "Does Not Equal"
[/ QUOTE ]
Since when?
I actually had to read it and give it the benefit of the doubt. I am sooooooo used to having what I say get taken the worst way possible
[/ QUOTE ]
OK it does when MaX types it at least. I dont recall seeing others use it so maybe its just one of his quirks
[/ QUOTE ]Search fir it in wikipedia and you'll see it's used by other people as well 
I still use =/= cause it doesn't cause situations like these. Or words, I find words really helpful too
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Normally im one to happily point out the errors of someones ways if they appear new and still learning.. but this was a 33 month veteran.. so i didnt pursue the subject. Even if I have seniority over him, its only by 6 months and at that stage to start an argument is only to see who has the longest reproductive organ.
[/ QUOTE ]Veterancy != Understanding of game mechanics
[/ QUOTE ]seniority ????? i been playing for 18mths, but i would never class my self better to a 3mth. with that state it make you sound pig head for you been here longer then other, been here longer then someone else don't make you i know it all AT types.
it like the WP/DB tankers came out, i had a lvl 50 WP/DB tanker which was a 36 mths VET tell me how to do my WP/DB tanker, i knew more about the my will power then his for he got his P LVL in the 1st few weeks of getting it. seniority only promots pig headness
and what i seen of invincibility it isn't
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I don't know if its aimed at me or at MaX.
If its at MaX I understood from the start that he meant "does not equal to"
If its against me, I know perfectly well that just because Ive been here longer doesnt make me an expert at playing ATs better than someone who only have 6 months but have played that AT for all that time.
But, the likelihood that someone who has been here for 3 years have played the game to 50, have tried out several ATs and so have a more varied experience, discussed powers and ATs with friends or on forums. Have researched the AT he has chosen, planned different builds with Mids. Have played together with other people with the powerset he is trying out and so have learned from them, and getting a good understanding of game mechanics.
that chance is so much greater with a 33month veteran than a 3 month veteran.. so that you can more often than not expect that they probably know something of what theyre talking about.
What I was trying to say was that I never look down on those who lacks veterancy. It dont take long to be proficient in this game if you do your research. theres also the chance that that character with no badges is someones 2nd account and whos been here since Beta..
But I guess i just had to high expectations of someone whs been here for years to actually do some research and get a understanding on what powers do and how theyre used when they roll a toon.
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
The simple fact is that any veteran who 'doesn't rate defence' doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. There are 3 powersets in Heroes based solely on defence. Are these 3 powersets useless?
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The simple fact is that any veteran who 'doesn't rate defence' doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. There are 3 powersets in Heroes based solely on defence. Are these 3 powersets useless?
[/ QUOTE ]
Only against Aim, BU & FA. *starts fight*
No, seriously, while not played a TANK Inv/SS, I do have a brute SS/Inv and must say that the power in question can be a life saver. Its the Rage Crash that does my kidneys in.
For me, while there are ways and means of playing an AT or building sets, if you can't do your primary function for a team in a team, then something is boop.
@Drakmarth & @Drakmarth2
Avatar by S. Wall
#415877 - An Uncivil War: Preclude - Looking for Feedback
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There are 3 powersets in Heroes based solely on defence. Are these 3 powersets useless?
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3?
and invincibility ROCKS.
Energy Aura, Super Reflexes & Ice Armour are defence based sets - others such as stone, invul, wp etc use combinations of resistance/defence or in the case of wp includes +Regen and -foe ToHit
Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.
Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.
Co-Leader of The Echelon
Visit us at http://www.theechelon.eu
I saw this particular player the other nigth again, he had gain a couple of levels so I peeked anew on his powers list. To my satisfaction he had appearantly caved in and gotten invincibility (yay) probably instead of footstomp. (makes sense, when you have such poor agroholding capabilities with just taunt and gauntlet, a PBAoE knockback power is not on your list of powers you want.)
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
So i was on a team tonight with a invuln tank in the 30s..
after it being pointed out to him that he didnt have his taunt aura he explained that it was because, if i remember correctly "it not living up to his expecations", as in "not useful" enough... (maybe the tank in question can explain his reasons better if he reads this)
Normally im one to happily point out the errors of someones ways if they appear new and still learning.. but this was a 33 month veteran.. so i didnt pursue the subject. Even if I have seniority over him, its only by 6 months and at that stage to start an argument is only to see who has the longest reproductive organ.
so anyway.. are there any else who are dissatisfied with invincibility? Am I only fooling myself into believing you cant be a tank without your aggro aura?
The guy DID have taunt and he DID managed to keep the aggro in check mostly, so he wasnt a total scrankhead.
Has there been a paradigm shift in tanking from tauntless tanks to tauntaura-less tanks ive missed?
someone, please help me
UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender
Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz
"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.