Chaplain_EU

I'd like to bring Chaplain (Emp/Eng) or Nikta (Rad/Rad) along please. I think there could be some interesting things to find.

IMPORTANT UPDATE!

Please note, due to cost cutting measures, the server has been reduced in capacity to 25 slots. This means idlers will not be tolerated. PLease, if you waiting for someone use MSN to co-ordinate logging onto TS.

Please also change your 'nickname' to your Global chat handle. Eg.

@Chaplain

This way i can check you are using the Union TS for its intended purpose.

The use of the server for other games is permitted only in moderation. Albeit some of my long term friends will not be kicked for playing in the land of fluffy elves.

Just be nice, respect the fact that a number of us are paying for the service and enjoy.

Chap.

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If your playing style has been enough to get you to lvl40 without Stamina, then I don't see why you should need to spend 3 of your last 4 picks to get it - Dark Consumption is a very nice End booster, especially as you'll be in the middle of a group of enemies a lot of the time. Opressive Gloom is great - does a similar job to Choking Cloud but is cheaper. Also, you can stack Cosmic burst with it to easily Disorient bosses. Soul Drain also suits you down to the ground - again as you're in the middle of groups of enemies a lot. Oddly, the armor is probably the most skippable of them - partly because you're already pretty well defended and partly because it needs slotting and I'd prioritise slotting the other powers from the Dark pool first.

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Exactly. I run Nikta like this now. Jump in a group, 50% of the minions are disorientated on the first 'to-hit' roll and with luck your cosmic bust stacks with a successful opressive gloom tick on an Lt or Boss.

Much much cheaper than choking cloud and actually more effective since you can control lts and bosses more readily.

Between Nikta and Chaplain I have tried every single epic power and I think i am now happy with Nikta -> dark. Chap still needs some work.

you'd think so, except the toon needs to learn how to throw left handed as he keeps putting his assault rifle away when you use, for example, web grenade. Queue 3 second animation every time you use those powers.

Well i roled a Sonic/Traps last night. Only level 4.

Looking forward it seems like a decent combination due to the stacking -res as posted above, but also the semi controllery stuff you get higher end. It is definately less capable in terms of soloing than my Fire/Dark though. Traps just doesnt offer the same protection earlier on. Unless im playing it wrong. Which is entirely possible.

Good on you Doulos. Comes a time, even with things like depression, you have to slap yourself across the face and get right back to the real stuff.

If you dont put yourself back on track, noone else is likely to do it for you.

You should join me and Prize, we only play Tuesday nights... and thats it.

Anyway. Good luck and all that. Keep us posted.

Yeah sorry folks. I wasn’t trying to change what you’ve done, merely give my interpretation of WH does CoH.

I mean, in the tabletop, there were no healing classes. In combat healing didn’t happen. If you read any of the backstories or some of the better written Black Library stuff, you get a reasonable insight into what happened during Combat. Apos were responsible for recovery of the gene seed of fallen breathren and the reinsertion of the gene seed in neophytes. Also the Apos performed all the surgery for the countless augmentations required to take the comparatively frail human form to the overbearing monolith that is a space marine.

Chaplains didn’t heal their brethren in the literal sense. They were spiritual leaders. They guarded the sanctity of the unit and warded against the taint of chaos. On the Battlefield they were an imposing figure. Their revered status within the chapter meant that when they took to the field of battle they inspired the marines with newfound determination and vigour. The Chaplains often lead squads, or a retinue. They were at the forefront of the battle, leading the way. They were superb combatants in melee and I cant recall a particular Chaplain who was noted for his prowess at range.

Librarians were psychers, but also superb meleers. Of course in CoH that means controller, and I think Mind or Gravity works well for that. Librarians were not healers though. But their psychic powers would fit kinetics well imo. Speed boosts, repel, fulcrum shift etc.

Terminators existed as separate units, but also captains and sergeants could earn terminator honours and still remain part of marine company. I think terminators make more sense as Claws Scrappers. They weren’t as indestructible as chapter masters/librarians/chaplains but they did have better armour than marines. Their damage output however was awesome. Claws/SR is most suited. But a toggle free Regen build might suit? Broadsword certainly isn’t out of the question either, but I’d reserve that option for later Special Characters.

In practice, a team of marines with only 1 special character should do well.

7 Marine + Chaplain = tank takes agro, blasters nuke like crazy.
7 Marine + Librarian = Controller confuse, aoe hold. Blasters nuke like crazy.

Anyway, ignore me, im a WH40K backstory fan. The fluff is the stuff! Its really trashy Sci-Fi that’s easy to read and if any of you are interested, id really recommend you try the Ben Counter novels. Grey Knights is superb.

Looks like your having some fun Doulos.

I used to spend a lot of time painting and reading WH40K, (but not playing). For conceptual reasons I’d would have liked to see you make a bold move and ban h34l0rz. I think you could have relied on ‘Apos’ to do out of combat patching up. After all, the space marines are supposed to be 1337, using superior tactics, complete mental conditioning and the best in genetic modification to overcome their emperor sworn foes. If you wanted to ban healers, you could still have a Chaplain. As I remember it, Chaplains were supposed to be the pillars of strength, the spiritual leaders. They would lead the troops into battle reciting various prayers on the way, swinging their Croziums at whatever was unfortunate enough to be in the way. To me, this says – Invuln/Mace or Axe tanker.

Considered a CoV alternative? Sure not particularly heroic, but the ATs might be suitable. Perhaps someone will create your roleplaying partners. Your chapters nemesis? Chaos?

Marines – AR/*
Apos – AR/* + medicine pool Corrupters
Techmarine – Robots/Traps Mastermind
Librarian – Mind/Psy Dominators
Chaplain – Mind/Psy + Medicine pool Dominators.
Seargeant – Energy Melee/Energy Aura Brute
Assault – Claws or Energy Melee (modelled with large robotic fists) / Ninjitsu Stalker – Fly travel powers required.

The biggest problem I have here is with the Assault and Apos secondary. Trying to pick something that isn’t too flashy and can stick with the concept. But also, if the two groups were ever to meet, considering you want mainly Marines in your outfit, you’d have serious unfair advantage vs CoH Imperial Rifles. Every marine potentially could have a huge AoE heal. Possibly Sonic or Radiation could fit the Noise and Plague marines profile reasonably well.

As with all themed SGs. Diversification is often included to satisfy other people’s desires. But damn, many months ago, there was an all AR/Dev Armed Forces themed SG running around. That was a lot of fun, combined with a lot of death actually. Having so many choices available, as in 1 chaplain per 8, and 1 apo per 8 etc, means youll end up with few plain bog standard marines running round. Be nice to see 7 standard AR marines teamed with 1 sergeant, or 1 chaplain. Might get me an alt Pled to catch you folks up. Just don’t have much time for CoH these days.

I can only assume that your build isnt very good, since you need 3 recharge redux in Ressurect

Aside from that, i remember a discussion some time ago about pure healer builds. well, i hoped ED might make Empathy more interesting to play at late game, and promptly specced Chaplain up with all the healy goodness on the test server.

Simple fact is, that I never have to crazy heal at 50 like i did at The Hollows levels. ED hasnt globally nerfed everyone to the levels at which Empathy is a must.

I concluded the best thing a healer can do is be a buff bot. To warrant a place on a team, i'd say empaths MUST have manoeuvers and tactics, or at least assault and tactics. Fortitude needs to be up on 3 people at 1 time and you should push the team to engage things faster. Educate people that with you around, they can afford to be a little less cautious. i mean, im having fun when im healing, and dragging people out of the red. I dont have a lot of fun casting Fort on 3 people and CMing the squishies every 30 seconds.

I do agree with your philosophy about travelling fast. healers do very well when they can remain unseen at the front of the battle healing the tanks and the scrappers. Im an advocate of Hurdle, with 3 slots and superspeed. There is little you cant over come in CoH with that. Hover thrown in to keep you on your feet agains the annoying knockback and such...

In summary, i think your have created a pure healer, in as much as you have taken all the healing powers. Just not sure thats the 'ultimate' empath spec.

Fire is best for AoE crazy damage, as said.

Not blapping is reducing you potential damage output by quite possibly 50%. Why play a scrapper, when you could grow some balls and play a blapper ! (points to all the 'Empathy is Boring' threads around - at least you can give the empaths something to do.)

Coming quite late into this thread I know. However, few points.

I built Nikta as an offender. I think he represents the peak of what is achievable under the title 'offender' and that really doesn't affect my usefullness in teams.

One of my biggest decisions was not to bother with leadership. If im playing correctly, im stacking mobs into the effects of my RI and EF and as such im nerfing them pretty harshly. Tactics would of course be good, but starting an attack chain with a accuracy, debuff slotted irradiate tends to work.

From the PvP slant, Tactics is of course a joy for spotting stealthed units. However, the activation animation, and running toggles on a toon with very poor mez resist was always one of my biggest gripes in PvP. Leadership toggles root you for 3 seconds or so and advertise your presence with a well known jingle. Ive been murdered by Stalkers a few times switching leadership buffs on...

Avoiding Leadership allowed me to take every attack bar XRay Beam. Niktas attack chain reads something like, RI+EF, bunch on a corner, Irradiate, Neutron Bomb, Electron Haze, Cosmic burst on the boss. Repeat.

Now, i took Nikta down the Dark Ancillary pool and took ALL the powers.

Opressive Gloom = much less end heavy choking cloud. And Opressive Gloom + Cosmic burst = stunned bosses. So its better than choking cloud. The -4Hp / mob really doesnt do anything to your health, even when stood in a tightly packed mob of 10 or so.

Soul Drain: Nice Nice Nice. Since you are bunching mobs in your debuffs, you get nice opportunities to use Soul Drain and Transfer. They do some small damage as AoEs on their own, but the buffs are incredible.

Shield: Well, no psi resist, but its better than the standard S/L res of the Power Mastery Set, giving Energy, and Negative Res too.

PvP is a tough ordeal for a Rad Rad. There are too many ways to drop a Rad Debuff. The Arena makes things a little easier, especially on a tight map, but in PvP zones, rad is near on daft. If LR lands on a stalker, then maybe, just maybe you can tag him before he hides/runs away.

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From my experience irradiate is much more useful in both PvE and PvP than that snipe. And then you really shouldn't slot cosmic burst for disorients but for damage (again both for PvE and PvP)

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Slot Cosmic Burst for range. No joke. Storm Defenders/Trollers with whirlwind up can be mezzed with this. Also jousting is made much easier. I used to slot Cosmic burst with 3Range, 3 Mez. If it lands, youve plenty of time to use Snipe, which matches its damage anyway.

EMP can end drain, which for PVP is quite nice. 3 Slots takes about 75% End off a target iirc. Sometimes worth thinking about.

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Well I have topped my poor old empath for not wanted in a team. I joined one with my AR/Dev blaster, entered the mission and was told, "sorry we wanted a real blaster" and got kicked from the team.

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Sorry, but if a team leader did this, whilst I was in the team, i would be saying goodbye... Its pretty outrageous.

ED 'should' have made the game harder and forced empaths to heal more. It didnt. in the late game, i can still get away without healing at all on some AV fights. The only time when healing is necessary is against PSI mobs. SS TFs for example.

Good job i have a rad defender too.

Empaths are really fun to play at low levels where heals are needed in a fast and frantic fashion, but getting to 40+ and sitting amongst uber scrappers/tankers wont exactly have you draining your endurance to keep them alive. I'd very much like the opportunity to take Chaplain out in a 7 Blaster 1 Defender team, at least then I might be busy...

I think you got the message already from everyone above, but empathy is not a good offensive primary. Infact any of the other primary sets is better.

My first toon to 50 was an empath/energy. Now i enjoyed playing it, but im really only in existance of a buff/heal bot. No matter how hard I try to kill things, im just not good at it. Sure, its possible to make a good healer with a good number of slots on 3 or 4 attacks, but you'll still be doing poor damage.

Unfortunately, the solution is to roll a new toon.

.... if only Fort was castable on yourself.

Syn, winding you up is a well know CoH boards sport, I'd have thought you knew this by now.

Ill make a concession to you all, I think you probably are right. Clearly some things have changed since I left CoH. 75% 'was' the figure quoted defender damage vs blasters some time ago. I never worry about damage cap since I use resistance debuffs which effectively higher the cap. Practically staying at the cap is impossible, even with Fulcrum shift.

Ive noticed Post ED my debuffs are worse, so I think i would notice the roll reversal to a corrupter if the effectiveness is further reduced by 25%.

Anyway. I think i need to apologise in any case, and Syn wasnt completely incorrect. I'm a bit stressed. So... sorry for that Syn.

/em shuffle out the door.

@ Syn, just didnt want to nav back a page to reply.


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You do realise that, by your definition "Offensive anything requires a balanced defence" Blasters aren't at all offensive? They're most assuredly not balanced, so where does that leave your logic?

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Im trying to leave billy big balls posturing out of my arguments. Failing that, I don’t see many blasters successfully doing anywhere near what I can achieve solo with an offender. No where near. Not close, not even in the same carpark. They need a team or they need to engage less targets. Either that or they adapt / improvise with what status effects they have. Eg, ice holds, slows, */ devices etc. My best efforts with a blaster / blapper revolve around taking small bites and using my noggin. Even then, it would take me twice, or 3 times as long to complete the same mission. Syn, being deliberately obtuse in your so eloquently put arguments is fun at first but after the 3rd quote… … you get the picture.

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Slower, safer kills, or quicker, 'riskier' kills? (Although it's not risky if they're already dead.) A difference in playstyle does not make a build more or less offensive, it just makes it different.

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Talk about unsubstantiated… you don’t kill even levels in 1 go. That’s impossible, save for your tier 9 nukage which happens what, every 5 mins at best. Go fight Nems. Go fight CoT. Fight anything with status effects. Right before the bit where your dreaming you killed them, they mezzed you or knocked you on your [censored] and well, that’s the end of the story.

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Unqualified, unsustainable comments do not a good discussion make. Double this, triple that - put those kinds of comments back where you pulled them from, Chap.

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Substantiating my original statements is no issue.

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So, what you're saying is - just to get this straight - because I play a Corruptor as a Corruptor, and not as a Defender, I've got more offensive capability? I didn't realise were playing the Obvious Game, thanks for the heads-up.

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Erm yes? Exactly, im not sure how obvious I have to be with you Syn, as your selective understanding is somewhat unpredictable! Tell me exactly why I cant put defenders and corrupters in the same cookie jar then? Baring in mind a defender can spec offence and a corrupter can spec defence.

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If you play Corruptors with the same mindset as you play Defenders, then you're playing the wrong game, to be blunt. Would you play a Brute like you would a Scrapper, or a Dom like you would a 'troller? Forget everything you know about Defenders, learn how to play a Corruptor effectively from the ground up, would be my advice.

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You make no sense. I play both defenders and corrupters as I would like to play a blaster. Pretending this is a hard game isn’t worth it Syn, the mechanics are simple, the gameplay is a breeze. I’m not going to go away and think about how I might be misunderstanding the nuances of Corrupters vs Defenders… They ‘Can’ play the same and frankly, anyone who hasn’t played an offender in CoH cannot really argue.

Syn, save the effort of using :P in your posts. I know its there to soften the harsh assault of your well written and witty retorts, but I’m thick skinned, I don’t need it. ;P And please come show me some of this Kin uberness, so I can start a petition to have it nerfed!

And to Cybercel - base damage of Corrupters greater than defenders? I wasnt aware of this... But anyway, your reinforcing my point. I can build, and I have done, a defender that performs like a corrupter but imo better, since its safer.

I missed the passionate debate of the boards…

For me, Offensive anything requires a balanced defence. There is a reason why armed forces bomb the infantry targets for days on end before the troops move in. Its to reduce the effectiveness of the enemy, before the ground fight commences. Thus improving the chances of the infantry, or reducing their losses. Kin is like Rambo. It throws two fingers up to ‘safety’ and goes in all guns blazing, pausing only briefly to reduce one or two targets effectiveness.

Rad or Dark on the other hand, reduce the enemies effectiveness before putting themselves in harms way. Its more calculated and I’d wager, more effective. I’m not interested in arguing about the minor differences in +dmg available to each set because its totally irrelevant. Being around and alive to use the offensive set is far more important.

If a Kin feels comfortable killing 4-5 mobs at a time, a rad/dark could easily double that. And we are not talking an endurance draining 2 minute marathon of power spammage either.


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You're all missing the point. To be an offender, or offensive corrupter proper, you actually need to be able to survive your blood lust. Kinetics boosts 'offence' but provides none of the required protection which you sorely require when dishing out big hits. Posibly removing all teh mobs end, or slowing them so much they cant move etc, but practically thats difficult as all your powers are single target.

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Remind me to take you out and about with my Fire/Kin sometime. Huge damage, huge ST-debuffs - I can incapacitate a boss, take the minions down, and wipe out the Lts before they know what's hit them. In fact, the only problem I have is against mezzing bosses, much like any other Corruptor except Sonic (mostly).

Don't get fooled Chap, Corruptors are more than "reverse Defenders". Kin soloing might not work well with Defenders, but it really does with Corruptors.

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Specifically regarding the last comment, sure i dont have enough experience with corrupters yet, but they DO have 75% the damage of a blaster. Vs a defender, their secondaries are less effective than the equivalent primary. if your finding Kin better as a corrupter, it can possible be due to Scourge or the fact youve taken more Offence and slotted more heavily than you would normally. Because aside from that, the mechanics for the two classes are not that differnt. (a small concession in that Scourge is Very Good...) Oh, and you chose fire, which isnt available to a defender. Its added DoT makes more than a small difference with Scourge factored in. Something im wondering if they will be fixing soon. Or is it WAI? (ive taken Fire/Dark)

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I don't think there's much point in specifying "offensive Corrutors," as Corruptors are, by nature, quite offensive. They have a damage dealing primary, unlike Defenders, which are an entirely different beast, regardless of shared sets. Defensive Corruptors are really the minority, unlike with Defenders, so I really wouldn't mention the two in the same sentence.

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Wow, how can Corrupters not be described as defensive when they have such powers are Heat and Sonic available… since when does a non self shield buffing set help build a soloable anything. ;P

And by the very fact that the one of the best 'defender' builds in CoV is a corrupter, there is plenty of room to describe Corrupters as Defensive and Offensive. I could take my Rad/Dark down a controllery defence build, or build a reasonable offender. So in the same scentence they will stay

Recycled content is the name of the game with CoV, so i dont think its me who is being fooled that Corrupters are all too different to Defenders... Just possibly in the psycological approach to templates. Scourge is a really nice thing, but killing things faster is not equal to surviving killing more things, but slower.

I need to see more Kin in action. Ive seen and played a lot of Kin, and maybe im playing wrong, or seeing the wrong players play. Maybe Kin can be described as an Offender or Offensive Soloable Corrupter build. I'm thinking about when i was paying Nikta last night, and jumping into the middle of a group of 20 or so, mixed Nem spawns. If i was a Kin anything, id be spending too much time on my backside unable to heal or do anything. But even without the crazy knockback of nems, jumpinging into the middle of a spawn of 20 X with a Kin presumably means you start teh encounter with a heal... and then another one...

Also, lets remember, the OP was complaining about Kin in general. Not me… Im happy to learn tho, so @chaplain any time if you want to Show me, Pocket D gives that opportunity to compare Corrupters and Offenders atm, could be an interesting exercise.

Well, 3rd of april is a long time away. I hope to be raiding before then, since its one of the main reasons I came back.

Anyway. I can turn up with Nikta, rad/rad/dark defender or Chaplain, emp/energy/psy defender. (with telekinesis)

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Dont reroll, ill get slammed for 'dissing' kinetics, but i dont beleive it fits the 'offender' or 'offensive corrupter' role too well. Its a great team buffer tho... so find some pals and excite them with speed boost and fulcrum shift.

[/ QUOTE ]Triple siphon speed+hasten+fulcrum shift=very offensive

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You're all missing the point. To be an offender, or offensive corrupter proper, you actually need to be able to survive your blood lust. Kinetics boosts 'offence' but provides none of the required protection which you sorely require when dishing out big hits. Posibly removing all teh mobs end, or slowing them so much they cant move etc, but practically thats difficult as all your powers are single target.

If your in a team then Kinetics is by far the best offensive set. By the time youve hung a rad / dark debuff on someone, the rest of the team has killed your anchor and removed the benefits.

In my experience, Corrupters/Defenders are never going to be super smashing great, 'you've won a caravan' damage. Both defenders and corrupters are 'safe' methods of employing offensive ranged blaster powers.

You 'can' get more oomph out of the corrupter powers such as Rad or Dark earlier on, with their AoE resistance debuffs and their suprisingly effective accuracy debuffs, youll be 'tanking' many mobs whilst narrowing the gap between blaster damage and corrupter/defender damage.

Kinetics is everyones best friend and I dont argue that its a soloable build in any guise. But, i'd have thought Rad or Dark make much wiser 'safer' choices, and all the way up until Fulcrum Shift, probably a heck of a lot more damage.

Rad for example, has Enervating field, thats a resistance debuff. If you add onto that the added damage from Accelerated Metabolism, i beleive you could be talking +50% damage out of the box? (or maybe im mistaken.)

Dont reroll, ill get slammed for 'dissing' kinetics, but i dont beleive it fits the 'offender' or 'offensive corrupter' role too well. Its a great team buffer tho... so find some pals and excite them with speed boost and fulcrum shift.

Sunday, 11am, grab a coffee, stick the radio on, enjoy the sunshine beaming through the window....

.... and then suffer Lifeline AND Prize's indecision and lack of direction in 1 team...

back to bed for me im afraid!

But sure, this sounds like a plan.

Rolled a fire/dark last night.

Found the first 3 missions easy, but was all too familiar with running away at the snake hatchery missions. But didnt die once yet so clearly i havent forgotten how to play.

yes, i looked a the powers and the Fire/Cold went out the window as soon as i found out that
a) No self heal power in Ice.
b) There is a skull face mask... muhahah.

So, Cinder L will be taking the casual approach to 50 over the next few months. Ill be asking for advice along the way. Im already have restless nights trying to weight up which travel power makes most sence, and whether i actually need stamina with this build...

.... Fire/Cold corruptor!

Well, i havent the time to look into this properly. I wanted a good concept as a priority, but I also wanted to be the AOE king.

Now i dont want to use RAD, because one of my CoH toons is Rad/Rad and frankly im bored with it. I dont want to use dark because I dont like the concept.

I DO want a slow power, so i can make my AoEs last. I want to be able to keep mobs tightly packed and slowed so i can do the nice AoE chain that fire offers.

I always remember in CoH when the enthusiastic ice or fire blaster let rip with their Rain power. Damn that got some people mad. Tough poop im afraid. Im going to use this power a lot. It looks nice, it feels nice and frankly im a VILLAIN so i should be upsetting people right?

In all seriousness, as this is my 2ndary MMO, i want a fast, soloable build that feels uber at the high end, with a good concept, i.e fire/ice. I am considering other options, but finding a guide that doesnt just report power stats is difficult atm.

Anyway. Ill be rolling this toon tonight so catch me on my global chat @chaplain if you have any advice.

Also, another question. Is primary damage 75% of blaster damage? I can kind of see why, since we can debuff resistances with some 2ndaries, but do we get defiance? As i say, didnt look into this all too well at the moment.

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excellent, almost like old times eh? wonder if Enz will make an appearance...

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Well i can almost guarentee he would show up for 5 minutes, leave for a [censored] and allow us to continue the hard work without him

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Chaplain made on post in general a few weeks back, but not seem much, if anything of him since then. Vetis has posted saying he's coming back... Who's next? :P



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Im around and my account is still active. I fancy doing a TF some time soon with you lot. Other than that i took my blapper around sirens call and was amazed that you get debt from being killed there. Maybe because some NPCs were involved in my death.

Well that sux the big one imo. I'd gotten too used to gameplay minus debt... Sure prefer to spend 5 minutes walking than 2 hours of debt payment

Look Prize its no use, give it up.... Your gimped. Probably. i have no clue, but frankly there is no chance you'll tank for me, since im too worried youll nip off to mine some copper mid fight... oh wait... wrong game...

Anyway. Good to see you around. I took a tour of paragon last night and was saying to the lads we should do an imba hard TF some time soon.

Chap.