Chaos_String
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Posts
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If I may add a couple observations to this thread...
Quote:The chain I mentioned, (Hack > Headsplitter > Hack > Disembowel > gap) really only requires as much recharge as (Parry > Hack > Headsplitter > Hack > Disembowel), specifically 220% recharge in Hack. The issue in both chains is getting Hack recharged during the animation of Headsplitter. The gap at that level of recharge (0.52sec) is still better from a DPS standpoint than a Parry would be.Option C: Chaos's attack chain... You're gonna need recharge coming out of your... toes here.
So the chain I mentioned differs from the Parry chain only insofar as getting even MORE recharge beyond 220% will produce more DPS, since it shortens the gap (and insofar as without Parry, it doesn't give you any defense). So just to clarify, my chain doesn't require any more recharge to produce better DPS than the single-Parry chain; but it does benefit from having more.
Interesting fact about the Achilles Heel proc: it doesn't stack. Ever. Not from the same power, and not from different powers. Not from the same caster, and not from different casters. Not from pets, not from teammates. Never. It essentially tags your target with an auto -res that's flagged as unstackable. So the -res debuff shows up as coming from "self" rather than from you, and regardless of where the debuff originated from, a target can never have it twice. So with just the AH proc, you'll never debuff a target's damage resistance beyond 20%.Quote:(BTW, why are you using PvP procs? Achilles' Heel isn't unique, and the Gladiator's isn't all that different from, say, Mako's).
But if you have the Achilles Heel proc *AND* the Fury of the Gladiator proc, they're two different effects, and therefore they DO stack.
Here is a picture I took to illustrate this fact. -
Ahh, right. The OP specified BS/Regen.
And here I thought I'd helped someone. Ah well, maybe tomorrow.
Iggy's right, pick one of his chains according to how many Parries you need to cap your melee/lethal defense. -
Quote:And that'll probably remain the going price every day from now on until they increase the drop rate, or do something to dramatically increase the popularity of PvP.Originally Posted by Bubblerella
My first look was at the Gladiator. 2 billion seems to be the going price today.
It's effectively price-capped, because the inf cap is 2 billion and therefore you can't bid more than that. -
Bring out the gimps.
The gimps are sleeping.
Well then, I guess you'd better wake them up. -
The best one I've found (and implemented on my BS/SD scrapper for a little over 200dps vs. Pylons, without AAO fuel) is Hack > Headsplitter > Hack > Disembowel > (gap).
The reason why there's a gap in this chain is because, half a second of dead air and then Hack is better than 1.584sec of Slash or Parry followed by Hack. If you've got just enough recharge in Hack to bookend Headsplitter (2.5sec recharge, or +220%) the gap will be 0.52sec. Then, the more recharge you get, the shorter the gap becomes, until it disappears at about 305% +rech in Hack.
Now you may be thinking that at 290% rehcarge, Headsplitter > Disembowel > Hack would be even better because Headsplitter has a little more DPA than Hack. But presuming you're slotting the Achilles Heel and Hecatomb procs into Hack, the four-attack chain will still be better because it'll get more mileage out of those procs, and the gap (which will be only 0.08sec at that level of recharge) doesn't negate that higher proc efficiency.
So the gold standard is Hack > Headsplitter > Hack > Disembowel with at least 220% recharge in Hack.
As an aside, if you're ever looking for a really high-output DPS chain, poke around in the stickied threads "The Results Are In" and "The Results Are In Part 2" at the top of this forum. They contain the gold standard attack chains for every melee set. -
My ill/rad doesn't have any purple sets simply because he was soloing AVs by the late 30s and I wanted +recharge bonuses prior to hitting level 50.
By the time I got to level 50, he'd already achieved perma-PA without using purple sets; he'd soloed nearly every AV and GM he'd run across, and I figured, why re-slot?
Still, if you're planning on getting the very best enhancement values and perma-PA, and you don't mind waiting until level 50 to start giving AVs and GMs the hairy eyeball, illusion controllers can slot an awful lot of purple sets, many of which are inexepensive. -
Choosing between the two, go for Melee defense.
But if you're looking to layer one sort of defense onto /fire, the best one is S/L (typed). -
My ill/rad is a malfunctioning android from the future (tech origin). Designed to provide lifelike safari experiences in a controlled environment, he has an array of holographic emitters. Also, he has a malfunctioning nuclear power core (which he's able to keep contained--most of the time) and an infinitely recursive personality subroutine which makes him long to be human, and more specifically to be a hero of Paragon City.
He discovered a means of time travel prior to the unveiling of Ouroboros, but I dunno, for all I know it was an aspect of the Pillar.
And now, here he is, defending Paragon from all the AVs and Giant Monsters.
He also has a "human" alter-ego, a sort of Clark Kent personna (Dr. Ian Lennon) that teaches CGI at PCU. -
You can lead a horse to water but unfortunately water doesn't cure laziness.
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So glean what you can from those threads, and from that devise your own build.
Then post your build here and ask for a critique.
That wouldn't be lazy and the forumites here are always happy to critique a build. -
@Lewis-- If your primary purpose is to tank for teams, stick with the tank. It'll be more survivable, but more importantly, it'll offer superior aggro management tools. If your purpose is to solo, farm, and meatshield when necessary, make the scrapper for better damage with adequate survivability.
@OP-- Seriously dude. This search turned up 12 threads.
And searching "elm/sd" and "elec/sd" will turn up still others. -
WP will have better uniform performance while Regen will have higher peak performance. Ultimately the choice boils down to playstyle. Willpower is "set and forget," in that you just turn on your toggles and go, while Regen is more clicky and requires you to make tactical use of your secondary.
If you're new to scrapping, Willpower might be the better way to go, as it's harder to screw up. If you're experienced, you might find Regen more fun and rewarding. -
IMO, both WPeace and Vitality have it half right.
You do want sufficient recharge to spam AoE, have good uptime on buildup, and near-perma Energize. WPeace's build does well in this regard, but lacks significant defense to help you survive alphas.
Vitality's build is softcapped to S/L with a smattering of other defenses, but lacks the recharge to spam AoE, achieve good uptime on Buildup and Energize--and the build lacks Throw Spines entirely! I have to shudder a little at this. (It also uses the 2 billion +3def PvP IO, which I try to avoid using in my builds.)
Here's a look at my build which has 39.7% S/L defense and plenty of recharge. I run basically everything at +2x8, and I'm able to run the BM farm at +3x8 without using inspirations (not that I really want to, but I did it many times while testing mob dynamics vs. the damage auras, and I didn't die). It's a solid general missioning build which happens to farm very well.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Ikonoklast: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 2: Spine Burst -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(3), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 4: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40)
Level 6: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(7), AdjTgt-Rchg(7), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(36)
Level 8: Lightning Field -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(9), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 10: Static Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(43), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(48)
Level 16: Grounded -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 20: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(31), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), EndMod-I(23)
Level 24: Quills -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(25), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(25), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 26: Ripper -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(45)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 30: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Posi-Dmg/Rng(33), Posi-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Power Sink -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Tough -- RctvArm-EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1404;694;1388;HEX;| |78DAA5934973124114C77B60C810960012B22724908D2C93707339586AB02A1A4A1| |2624E2A85A44DA8E00C354CAACCCD0FE0C98B07B5A2A5E60B68B9945FC9DDA30BBE| |A5C1A2CCCD29F8FFBA9BF7FEFD78DD93BFB31212E2EE59A1F55CA8951B8D52B1E29| |4EB75E9F8F3FB6ED9ADDA566075CFB6EC3DF8D1358410895640292F6B529AEBFBD5| |5AAD916CAFAEC85BD26A4833579315D7A9564AE79CDBB6135BB576A5232DD76C0D4| |205DBAE9917ABAE251B8D004D8A7529B7C36A7D67D7AD5A3B1CB526CB7598C472F5| |6AC53C6F6F1F94F2508D740E06A0A00C7C0FB1327A9A5E5100A484679D10D820448| |B840F61804671BA48C16046E86942688C30334198EB078C8A27868A164D9FF6C323| |4456787E1202BF083DBF09134DC2A2F0223EC1265EDEC4EB3D769324E129B8FB54D| |1BE87E010175D8F18CFC82F7D48F8087E06FBF90CAEC2CF55F83BAA98ECA8E23364| |75AB2ABAB98A285731D65145175411E438119C15986AC05298973CE14BDC9055C25| |28EF005BC23CA3BC2DE69364D73FF26D93B05463165149B27EF131DF80A4671751E| |F12B1A2EF5161879C2D865C61AC10F7E09E5977840FFB6EF3E639CFC9E4340BF6A5| |53FB76A805B35C0AD1A39AE552F206B501DF320670D71D65047963AE605CEFA06B5| |0FABC60D2FD2F69A81B786FB32CAD730C3D730C3D730C3D7F008E2921CA7275F52E| |AF81BC62BC66BC2C45BC2F7302669B4538A1BE70587297502537CACD37C10D37C10| |D37C029B50EA2CEFA4CDF21D9BE33B7604A6F3AA97F35BD4DE85AB8C75820E5B982| |AC04CD0D2522F234AE8838065D580650E18D1FF790FB3FCCFB3DC872C3760ED6F1C| |7CE01105BDFDAA098D56927AFB5DFDAFE75DA8E5D3BD1100DD442980685B38BA867| |21DA7377054C6D14D940A4E9BEF43AD4A2327B1A05328A751CEA0DCC32023081244| |09A184517A5022285194384A1FCA10CA6394E61F78610011| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:Depends really. If you can do damage other than lethal from outside her broadsword range, she's a joke. Her crossbow attack is quite weak, and aside from lethal resistance, she has no real defenses.Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Battle Maiden may be one of the easiest AVs in the entire game. And it doesn't take two fire/kins. It takes only one slotted with SOs to take her down. I soloed her pre-inventions on mine.
Definitely more challenging if you cross swords with her though. -
Archvillain resistance doesn't reduce -dam debuffs either, such as the -dam applied by Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift.
That's not terribly helpful to scrappers soloing AVs, but it's worth noting.
Edit: just remembered the -7.5% damage debuff in Against All Odds. That should be unresisted by AVs. Yet another reason why Shield Defense excels at AV soloing. -
Quote:Because of the way -RES works, it's essentially a damage multiplier.Originally Posted by Dispari
Is the -RES proc really that useful? It's a 20% for -20%, and isn't most of that going to be resisted anyway?
Suppose I have two foes, Killhammer and Ted. Killhammer has 50% lethal resistance and Ted has none.
My katana hits for 100 damage. Killhammer would take 50; Ted would take 100.
Now suppose I hit each of them with a 20% resistance debuff.
Killhammer, with 50% lethal resistance, resists the debuff 50% (that's how it works--resistance to -res is always equal to the damage resistance itself), so he's debuffed 10%, leaving him at 40% lethal resistance.
Ted doesn't resist the debuff at all (having no damage resistance). So he's debuffed the full 20%, leaving him at -20% lethal resistance.
Now I hit them both again.
Killhammer now takes 60, which is 20% more than he took the first time I hit him.
Ted now takes 120, which is also 20% more than he took the first time I hit him.
So in essence, when you land the -res proc, it increases your damage by 20%, regardless of how much resistance your target may have. Putting it in Gambler's Cut, Umbral calculates 10.5% average -res according to the probable uptime, and because of the way -res works, that is the same thing as a 10.5% multiplier applied to your fully-enhanced damage output.
Hope that helps to clarify why the -res proc is even better than the Hecatomb proc (which is assuredly the next best thing.) -
Quote:I never had any "issues" doing ITFs on my Broadsword/Shield, either, although I did die a few times over the course of countless runs.Originally Posted by Santorican
Is that why I haven't had any issues doing ITFs, I use a dark/shield?
But yeah, Dark/Shield should have some edge in survivability over other Shield builds. -
Quote:Your comparison is moot. IE, pointless, petty and useless, like your snarky tone.Originally Posted by Windenergy21
fail, we were comparing SC to a damage aura, IE as if to replace SC with one or vice versa. When comparing two powers, which is what the whole discussion is about, all outside sources are equal, in other words, both would have, or have not, AAO. If you wanted to compare SETS, you could say that, but we are not, we're comparing POWERS.
And FYI, the topic is "Best scrapper build for farming." So regardless of whatever you've decided "the whole discussion is about," the powersets and their synergies, internal and external, are relevant to the topic. -
Basically, taken by themselves in SO builds, Shield Charge and damage auras aren't grossly unbalanced in terms of damage output. In this comparison, the burst damage and wide-area knockdown are Shield Charge's big advantages.
However, the powers don't exist in a vacuum. Shield Charge also gets AAO to buff damage while damage auras don't, and my best guess is that the practice of teleporting pointblank with Shield Charge to leverage AAO apparently wasn't forseen in the design of the power. Then, when you begin to factor in Hasten (and a */SD without Hasten is frankly failbuilt) and +recharge from IO sets, Shield Charge starts to pull ahead of damage auras in terms of damage output; and it still has the huge advantage of wide-area knockdown. -
Quote:Just to stop you here for a moment: in an SO build, the enhancement values you're specifying for Shield Charge leave no room for accuracy enhancement.Originally Posted by Nihilii
Assuming the best case scenario for damage auras and worst case scenario for Shield Charge, that is, running on SOs with no recharge bonuses or Hasten...
With +95% recharge in it, that's 200.2/(46 + 1.716) = 4.2 base damage per second. Assuming a +375% damage buff from full AaO, +95% damage slotting...
Not that I disagree with your line of reasoning; I also think Shield Charge is more powerful than a damage aura. I'm just trying to keep it real. -
Second build should be fine against Freaks. (I didn't check the first build because budget has never been a concern of mine.) However, the build would be better utilized against Battle Maiden's warriors, since they're purely s/l and IIRC they don't have a reduced xp/inf reward the way high level Freaks do.
Couple nitpicks though. First, Barb Swipe is deplorable. It's worse than Boxing from a pure DPS standpoint and I don't see how any mature Spines/* scrapper would want or use the attack. I understand you want the set bonus for 4 Kinetic Combat but it seems to me you'd be better off throwing those slots into Brawl and saving yourself a power pick.
Second, six-slotting Impale as an immobilize is sketchy. I know it's one of the only ways to get a s/l def bonus from the power, but Impale starts out with worse DPA than Ripper and Spine Burst (which kill stuff collaterally, unlike Impale), and then slotting it as an immoblize just makes it even weaker from a damage standpoint. If it weren't for the utility of Impale for immoblizing a foe in your Burn patch, I'd recommend skipping the power altogether in a S/L/melee def build, but I can see it being useful for that, if nothing else. (Besides, the last time I posted a Spines build without Impale a bunch of people wanted to lynch me for it.) Still, I find a six-slotted immoblize ...sketchy. Yeah, I said that already.
Third, although you'll do fine on farms with just the one -KB IO, I'd recommend finding ways to work one or two more into your build (or taking Acro) if you want to use the toon for general purpose missioning.
Finally, Weave would be better with 2 Enzyme HOs (for endurance reduction) or 3 Cytoskeleton HOs (again for endredux, and in case you're worried about using an "exploit"), or 3 pieces of LotG for the set bonuses.
Other than that, the build looks pretty good. -
Quote:People be ignint yo. And I mean look, most scrappers still won't charge a big spawn until the tank goes in. So they're afraid of the aggro I guess. (nevermind they could just turn off the damage aura)Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Although, I love your idea of adding taunt to damage auras. Don't see why people think it's a bad idea. What's so bad about keeping foes IN your damage aura?
I too would like to see taunt added. -
Quote:Just a guess, but perhaps they believed that fast-animating attacks with built-in endurance reduction would be too good at generating fury.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm not sure why anyone would think Claws would be too powerful on Brutes.
If that was the objection, then they were half right: claws is outstanding at generating fury, but it turns out it isn't game-breaking.
Back to SS, though: I don't think the set would necessarily be OP for scrappers, although Castle might need to look at giving both KO Blow and Foot Stomp some sort of GFS treatment. (At which point the people who just want the set for numerical reasons might not want it anymore.)
My position is simply that a set like (for instance) Ice Melee seems a whole lot scrappier to me than the screen-shaking Super-Strength, so I'd expect to see it proliferated first. -
Quote:BillZ's comparisons were solely relevant to single-target damage.Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I've played MA to 50, and I didn't enjoy the set. Maybe I'd like it more with the new animations, but overall it just felt clunky and kinda thrown together to me. Now maybe you'll jump in with, 'well you just want ss because of the numbers'. If that were the case, according to bills work-up, I'd still be better of with MA, since MA does better dps with it's best set-up. If people only wanted sets due to 'numbers' I wonder why tanks aren't pining for MA, lol.
Super-strength VASTLY outperforms Martial Arts in AoE damage ouptut, as well as damage mitigation through knockdown. -
Quote:This. /FA is squishy in the absence of a good IO build, but it can be built for maybe 40% or so S/L/melee defense without gimping it in other ways. At this point the layered defense, resists, and self-heal will put +2x8 on cruise control against most enemy groups.Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I see many people repeatedly saying how /FA is so squishy. With IOs you can make it pretty tough even if you can't softcap its defense. It can certainly hold its own with defense backed up with decent resists and a great self heal. My Spines/Fire can stand up pretty well to +2/8 mobs. I actually was farming aggro capped 52 bosses with mine before it was nerfed.
Shield Defense can probably trump /FA in terms of both survival and damage output, but that's true pretty much regardless of what you compare /SD to.