That's a great build Tark. Packs more recharge than mine currently, and only at the expense of melt armor instead of fire blast. Don't tell me I started a trend over on Virtue. 
It's ok, the basics are there.
It's masively exspensive with the Glad proc an it's seems abit pointless.
But overall it will work, it's just it's abit end heavy, an has low recov an regen considering what it could have.
Also because of the way you've slotted tough, resistances are abit low.
Not a bad build by anymeans just abit clumsy. i don't like true grits slotting for the Rech, all that extra rech only knocks a few seconds of SC etc.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
Quote:
True, but why have the money if not to spend it? |
Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
It's ok, the basics are there.
It's masively exspensive with the Glad proc an it's seems abit pointless. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
But overall it will work, it's just it's abit end heavy, an has low recov an regen considering what it could have.
Also because of the way you've slotted tough, resistances are abit low. |
I like layered mitigation, but I prefer to just rely on Defense. I enjoy the "I'm a god! I'm dead!" side of things.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
Not a bad build by anymeans just abit clumsy. i don't like true grits slotting for the Rech, all that extra rech only knocks a few seconds of SC etc.
|
A few seconds here and there does add up, though.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dusk
That's a great build Tark. Packs more recharge than mine currently, and only at the expense of melt armor instead of fire blast. Don't tell me I started a trend over on Virtue.
|
Plus, Mousey always teased me saying I should have just done Fire/SD/Blaze in the first place.
I also was messing around with a build that had Melt Armor as well, had 90% Recharge. Shield Breaker is an awesome set for that power.
Quote:
What? Really? Srsly?|
Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
It's ok, the basics are there.
It's masively exspensive with the Glad proc an it's seems abit pointless. But overall it will work, it's just it's abit end heavy, an has low recov an regen considering what it could have. Also because of the way you've slotted tough, resistances are abit low. Not a bad build by anymeans just abit clumsy. i don't like true grits slotting for the Rech, all that extra rech only knocks a few seconds of SC etc. |
Do show me yours pls. I would like to learn from the European master.
Quote:
My thoughts exactly albeit a bit less harsh lol
|
Originally Posted by _Lith_
What? Really? Srsly?
Do show me yours pls. I would like to learn from the European master. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
How is it pointless if it allows for more flexibility in a build? Performance costs, how bad *** do you want to be?|
Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
It's massively expensive with the Glad proc an it's seems a bit pointless.
|
Quote:
| But overall it will work, it's just it's a bit end heavy, an has low recov an regen considering what it could have. |
Quote:
| Also because of the way you've slotted tough, resistances are a bit low. |
Quote:
| Not a bad build by any means just a bit clumsy. i don't like true grits slotting for the Rech, all that extra rech only knocks a few seconds of SC etc. |
I don't mean to come off as sounding rude but it doesn't seem like you know exactly what you're talking about.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Lmao, I love how only the topic author is mature enough to take constuctive critism.
It's far too late to exsplain my points, my builds about 4bill an is the same or better, i'm not really gunna waste anymore effort replying as i don't really care 
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
Quote:
I know this wont mean anything to you but i can personally vouch for effys fm / sd build.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
I don't mean to come off as sounding rude but it doesn't seem like you know exactly what you're talking about.
|
Effy know's his stuff an while i don't so much, He's builds are top notch, so no need to be so rude to him.
This build is actually different than another one you posted that had melt armor. I must have assumed I imported it and had your other build already in Mid's. Heh. This one doesn't have Melt Amor, but Fire Blast.
I'd probably have a little more of a balanced build, but I have the bids out out of a Gladiator unique and a Panacea as well. So my build will probably have less recharge, but the resistance bonus of tough and maybe a smidgen better recovery.
Quote:
Like I said earlier I'm not trying to come off as rude but to say that build is clumsy is far from the truth. |
Originally Posted by Falcon
Effy know's his stuff an while i don't so much, He's builds are top notch, so no need to be so rude to him.
|
And better is relative, you might have more of one thing but less of another, doesn't mean that your build is better then mine.
Besides resistances on a shield, unless you're doing extreme content doesn't have that much factor as much as recharge would be. You won't have to worry about anything hitting you if its already dead.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I'm going to side with Effy, I think this build isn't as efficient as it could be for the amount of influence invested.
Specifically why I think that :
Survivability
- low resistances
- low regen
- lacks OwtS
- lacks Aid Self
- DDR isn't capped
Having some of these flaws in a build isn't so bad, but all of them, on a high end build ?... Basically, this build has barely more than the softcap. Ok, some DDR, good max HP, and some resistances, but it's far from the performance a Shield build can attain.
Accuracy
- no tohit outside of BU
- even with set bonuses, not enough accuracy on any attack to have a 95% hit rate on +4s.
Endurance
- no endurance management power
- low endurance reduction on high endurance powers
What I mean by that is with that build, if you turned off Tough and only used FSC and Fireball, NO other attack of any kind... You'd still lose 0.2 end per second. Add any ST attack and the loss becomes tremendous. [Edit : yeah, my bad, not actually true, you'd gain ~0.2 end per second using only FSC and FB (I forgot to consider the perf shifter and panacea proc). Adding Shield Charge or ST attacks would be enough to start losing end, though.]
Now if you don't care about fighting +4s nor farming and stick to relatively easy content, all that could be fine (although I think even in the ITF you could die if tanking due to the lack of capped DDR and S/L res) ; hell, you could probably do hard content with smart insp use, and, of course, as long as you have fun with the build nothing else matters.
Still, I really don't believe getting a bit more recharge and perma-hasten (which is the most overhyped thing ever for anything but a perma-dom) is worth all the sacrifices you do to get there, you could easily sit at ~60% global and fix most of the stuff highlighted above.
Sorry for my lack of exsplanation before. But Nihilli, is pretty much spot on.
An basically you could have alot more foryour money.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
I've never had any issue tanking in an ITF and my shield toon doesn't have capped DDR nor do I use inspirations. Maybe if you're tanking a +4 ITF sure then you'll need it, but otherwise not so much.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Then you're either super lucky, always run with buffs/debuffs or are a super duper awesome player. Pick whichever you want.
Personally, I've died once tanking the ITF without insps on an invul tanker with defense far above the softcap, 90% S/L res, 35%ish neg, 300% regen and 3000hp ; I'm using this example to illustrate with pure survivability values far above that build, I've died. I've also died with Shield builds with "maxed" survivability, but I also avoided deaths in places I would have died with the build the OP posted.
My point in a nutshell : for any value of X, if you can do X with that build, you could do X+Y with a build that didn't focus on recharge so much. Whether Y is overkill or not is up to each individual to decide, personally I don't feel it is and I don't feel 40% rech is worth losing all the extra survivability when you're already at such high level of recharges, especially as you wouldn't be able to use that recharge efficiently in the OP's build seeing as it isn't endurance sustainable without outside buffs (though I guess you could certainly argue that if you can tank the ITF without insps on such a build, you could use all your insps to make blues, but I'd retort an endurance efficient build could use the same insps to make rages and end up with a bigger damage increase than the recharge gives you).
With Fire recharge isn't as important as it is on a character using Dark. Fire can already do great dps with very little recharge bonuses. I guess you're right it is a bit over kill in terms of recharge.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Yeah, for Dark I'd sing a different tune as recharge directly improves your survivability and end management with SL and DC, and thanks to SL ~+35hp/s regen is definitely less important, and going with less resistances doesn't make as much of a difference. No argument here.
Is that why I haven't had any issues doing ITFs, I use a dark/shield?
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
I never had any "issues" doing ITFs on my Broadsword/Shield, either, although I did die a few times over the course of countless runs.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Is that why I haven't had any issues doing ITFs, I use a dark/shield?
|
But yeah, Dark/Shield should have some edge in survivability over other Shield builds.
Quote:
Nihilii,|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I'm going to side with Effy, I think this build isn't as efficient as it could be for the amount of influence invested.
Specifically why I think that : Survivability - low resistances - low regen - lacks OwtS - lacks Aid Self - DDR isn't capped Having some of these flaws in a build isn't so bad, but all of them, on a high end build ?... Basically, this build has barely more than the softcap. Ok, some DDR, good max HP, and some resistances, but it's far from the performance a Shield build can attain. Accuracy - no tohit outside of BU - even with set bonuses, not enough accuracy on any attack to have a 95% hit rate on +4s. Endurance - no endurance management power - low endurance reduction on high endurance powers What I mean by that is with that build, if you turned off Tough and only used FSC and Fireball, NO other attack of any kind... You'd still lose 0.2 end per second. Add any ST attack and the loss becomes tremendous. [Edit : yeah, my bad, not actually true, you'd gain ~0.2 end per second using only FSC and FB (I forgot to consider the perf shifter and panacea proc). Adding Shield Charge or ST attacks would be enough to start losing end, though.] Now if you don't care about fighting +4s nor farming and stick to relatively easy content, all that could be fine (although I think even in the ITF you could die if tanking due to the lack of capped DDR and S/L res) ; hell, you could probably do hard content with smart insp use, and, of course, as long as you have fun with the build nothing else matters. Still, I really don't believe getting a bit more recharge and perma-hasten (which is the most overhyped thing ever for anything but a perma-dom) is worth all the sacrifices you do to get there, you could easily sit at ~60% global and fix most of the stuff highlighted above. |
I respect your opinions a lot, but on this point I think you're wrong. The build works largely because shield charge and the fire AoEs (FSC, Fireball) are so overwhelming that the rest of it is largely irrelevant. Yes, you aren't going to be soloing AVs with this build, but for any content besides that or making impressive pylon runs, this build will outperform.
ITFs are not an issue. I've tanked one with mine and haven't died. And if you do happen to die...big deal, it's a rare occurence anyway. You're not going to be dying repeatedly. If you're doing a masters run you'd be leveraging inspirations or bringing along buffers.
OttS, Aid Self, good regen, good resistance are all nice to have but are not as valuable in a build like this that focuses on high octane offense. It's really a blaster in scrapper form. Stuff dies before they can wreck you. If you're sitting there waiting from stuff to just wail on you, well you're doing it wrong on a build like this. If you run out of endurance once in a while, you pop a blue.
I think you're viewing something from the AV soloing perspective of no inspirations and self sufficiency. This isn't a build like that. It is less self sufficient than other builds but is designed for maximizing offense with a soft capped build.
I love dream builds, it is a great way to learn slotting tricks and have something to shoot for.
Any chance of seeing some of the alternative dream builds?
Quote:
This isn't a dream build. The OP *can* afford everything he's listed. I have several billion and can afford to outfit mine fairly comparably. I think a lot of the scrapper forum regulars are equally as wealthy.|
Originally Posted by NeonPeon
I love dream builds, it is a great way to learn slotting tricks and have something to shoot for.
Any chance of seeing some of the alternative dream builds? |
There's been plenty of "budget" and more reasonable fire/shield builds posted. They have less recharge, less end recovery/regen, but are usually soft capped and will perform pretty well. However, even a "budget" version will be pretty expensive, especially if you go with LoTGs.
What a "budget" fire/shield would look like. No LoTGs, no purples. It would still require a full Obliteration set to cap melee, and there are plenty of expensive things in there such as the Blessing of the Zephyr -kb IOs, some of the Gaussians, Touch of Deaths and Performance Shifter pieces.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Budget Fire-Shield: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(11), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(17), T'Death-Dam%:40(29)
Level 1: Deflection -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg:40(7), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), S'dpty-Def:40(15), S'dpty-EndRdx:40(33)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(7), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), GftotA-Def:40(33)
Level 4: Cremate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(5), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(5), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(13), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(17), T'Death-Dam%:40(29)
Level 6: True Grit -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(43), Heal-I:50(50)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(13), Zephyr-ResKB:50(37), DefBuff-I:50(40)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(15), Zephyr-ResKB:50(40)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:50(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(23), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(23), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(21), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg:50(33), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(37), P'Shift-End%:50(42)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 24: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(25), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(31), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(31), GSFC-Build%:50(34)
Level 26: Incinerate -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), Mako-Dam%:50(34)
Level 28: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I:50(A)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 32: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx:30(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(42), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(43), Aegis-ResDam:50(43)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), Oblit-%Dam:50(39)
Level 38: Weave -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx:40(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg:40(39), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(39), S'dpty-Def:40(46)
Level 41: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold:30(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg:30(42)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Posi-Dam%:50(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:
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At the request of Santorican, here is my Fire/SD/Blaze: