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Quote:Do you want to tank and control aggro for a team? If so then you unquestionably want a tanker... while a shield scrapper can tank if built right it won't be as good as a true tanker.Actually, I decided that I do have another question.
This may be not the best place to ask, but hopefully people can reply without bias. Should I even be making a tank in the first place? Between a SD/fire tank and a fire/SD scrapper, which one will be more powerful and useful overall? If the scrapper is unequivocally considered better, perhaps I will just....scrap the idea of the tank. Lol, get it? Scrap?
If on the other hand you want to solo or mainly deal damage and not worry about controlling aggro then you want the scrapper, it'll do more damage and is tough enough for the purpose.
Basically you need to decide what you want out of the character and the choice will make itself. I have a 48 Fire/Shield scrapper and a 50 Shield/Fire tanker... both are very good characters but they have different purposes. While either can fill in for the other's role somewhat they aren't as good at it. -
Quote:I'm not doubting you ran into a bug there; it's just strange that I didn't see the same thing a few days ago. I could see a change if there had been a patch; and possibly it's different since this morning's patch but we had the same version last week.This is what I tried...for instance, I jumped behind the train, she jumped over to target me (melee range) aaaaaaaand...crossbow. It was odd, and a bit buggy. I was practically begging her to hit me in the face with her sword, but all she wanted to do was shoot me in the eye, point blank.
Ah well, chalk it up to weird and intermittent bugs I guess. I can guarantee that she had the sword on Sunday? I think since she killed one of our scrappers with that whirling sword attack.
I hope they fix whatever it is, and also fix the borked pet AI that's making Phantasm and several other pets nearly useless. -
Stone Melee offers hard hitting single target attacks with knockdown/knockup and the heavy hitter, Seismic, is a MAG 4 hold. You also have two AOE knockdown attacks, one that deals roughly Stone Fist damage and one that's a MAG 2 stun. It's not a big AOE damage dealer but it has tons of mitigation and it's single target damage is quite respectable. Be prepared to slot for endred though, it's a bit heavy on the blue bar. My Inv/Stone tanker, CMA, is still one of my favorites. Of course he's also my first 50 so that also has something to do with it.
Fire Melee offers a ton of damage, both single target and AOE, and works very well with Shield... I just finished taking a Shield/Fire tanker to 50 and it's nearly as durable as my Inv/Stone tank and does nearly scrapper level damage. It was a good ride most of the way; once you get your defenses in order around the mid-20's it was quite tanky all the way to 50. Fire Melee is also the lightest endurance set I've played and I've taken it to 50 twice, once as Stone/Fire and once as Shield/Fire.
I haven't played Ice melee to any significant level but it's damage is lower than most other sets, although it's tier 9 recently was buffed to Foot stomp levels. It does have a lot of mitigation built in as compensation. Since my highest Ice melee only got to the late teens my knowledge here is mostly theoretical.
Electric Melee has really good AOE but it's single target damage is somewhat lacking... my highest Elec Melee tanker is around level 30 and I've been impressed with the AOE but a bit disappointed in the single target damage. All things considered I think Fire Melee works better; it doesn't have quite as much AOE (although they recharge faster) but it's single target is much better. Still, it isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination and I've been working on two electric melee tanks, one Ice/Elec at 30 and one Dark/Elec at around 25.
That's all the sets I have personal experience with other than /EM... as you well know /EM isn't the set it used to be a few years ago, my Stone/EM has been shelved at 50 ever since shortly after the changes in issue 10? or so. I wouldn't recommend it for any tanker; I can't see that it has any real advantages anymore. -
While I agree with the idea I'd be concerned that if they gave Granite the ability to jump they'd nerf something else, or even turn it into a click power. After all, I think Granite's the only godmode toggle power in the game; I'd hate to loose that.
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This is strange, I ran an Apex a few days ago with CMA and didn't have a lot of trouble getting her to follow me once I figured out a method, and I know she was using her sword when I was close... she dropped one of the scrappers with whirling sword. You may try getting her into the center of the map, there's several obstructions around there that you could use to break LOS.
I do agree that she's frustrating on a melee heavy team since you'll have only a few seconds to attack between having to move out of the blue zones. Still, we had 1 tank, 3 scrappers, 2 controllers (I think Ill/Rad & Fire/Rad) and 1 blaster... I can't remember what the last person was, and we pulled it off. Yeah, it took awhile, and it took me a bit to figure out the best way to get her to move; she does tend to go to her bow. I would jump into melee, nail her with a couple of attacks and taunt then jump out when the blue circle of death formed and hit her with Laser Eyes and taunt again. If she went to her bow I'd duck behind something to force her to move and repeat the process. -
Ah, I didn't know about the level 10 limit; I've only used the email from established characters and apparently missed that in the patch notes.
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Wow, this would be a bonanza for long time vets. Roll up a new level 1, claim vet merits, mail to yourself, delete level 1 and repeat. Assume it takes about a minute & a half for each cycle @ 11 merits per... yeah, it's just slightly exploitable.
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It will work, you'll just have to pull her out. One thing, she's apparently pretty easy to immobilize; nobody on the team tossed one her way did they? The blaster has an immob and the defender, scrapper & tanks have one available in the APP.
I've found that when you attack her in melee and she grabs her sword she'll tend to stay with melee and follow you. If you can't get her to move then either move out of her range or break LOS, she'll come to you then. There's several areas on that map where you can duck behind something and force her to move to you. -
Quote:Well, the basic game will include access to Hero side and Villain side. It will NOT include access to Pretoria or side switching. It also doesn't include any goodies.they dont want to go "all in" yet, the most basic game is 1.22 on amazon, hence why I asked what it came with.
All boxed editions I've seen also include one free month of game time.
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And if they can get the basic game for a buck & 22 cents then heck yes go for it. Just make SURE they're getting a new, unused box since what you're paying for is the game code to create an account and each code can only be used ONCE. -
I'd suggest they get the Going Rogue complete; it includes the game and access to all three sides (hero, villain, praetorian). In order to play they need to buy some version of the game; the different versions are all in the NCSoft store with a description of the goodies each comes with.
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Well, I'm currently working on two /electric tankers, one an Ice/Elec at around level 30 and one a Dark/Elec at level 25. At this point the Dark/Elec may have a slight edge but I see the Ice getting really good once it matures and I get some sets into it.
Both tankers seem pretty capable as far as I've taken them, when I get time to play them the rest of the way I'll have a better idea. Ever since i19 hit I've been playing my 50's and haven't touched the lowbies -
Quote:Sorry, but with the right build and powersets it's certainly possible. As was mentioned all you need is >100 dps to eventually kill an AV; Shield/Fire can certainly do it as can several others.As it stands right now, any tank that soloed an AV/Hero class opponent without temporary powers would have Castle, Synapse, AND Sunstorm all agreeing to implement a nerf on the very next patch.
One of the factors you have to consider is that very few scrapper / brute builds can generate to required DPS to over-come an AV/Hero class's regeneration rate. A tank, by default, even using the same exact slotting as a scrapper, is going to be down on damage by 30%.
Now, if you are dead set on trying this, go over to the scrapper forum and read through the pylon results build: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130754
Ask the person who managed to drop a pylon in 4 minutes with a Fire / Shield scrapper what their build was. That's probably going to be your best bet to try and do it on a tank.
As long as you can output over 100 dps and have endurance sustainability then the AV's going to go down eventually. I've seen some tanker builds post dps in excess of 150 dps so it's doable. It'll be boring as hell but it can be done.
Heck, soloing AV's with a perma-PA Ill/Rad is boring enough; I've done it a few times but once you've proven it can be done what's the point? -
Quote:Argh, it does have a run in it, Titan Sentinel export screws up inherent stamina so I have to reslot that in Mids and I goofed.I have one question... Why the flight speed common IO in swift? you have no flight power. Might as well put a Run IO in and give you a decent sprint speed, while not being able to hop about like a bunny on crack. Caves and what not tone down the usefulness of travel from sj/cj.
I like the build though. -
It's fairly expensive, but I've found this build to work quite well; this is my current live setup:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Sword of Damocleve: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hack -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Dam%(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Deflection -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(7), GftotA-Def/Rchg(9), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), ResDam-I(11), ResDam-I(11)
Level 2: Slice -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(13), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(15), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 4: True Grit -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(17), ResDam-I(19), Heal-I(19), ResDam-I(21), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(21)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-Travel(23)
Level 8: Parry -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(27), Mako-Dam%(27)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Membr(29)
Level 12: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 14: Battle Agility -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(33), GftotA-Def(33), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 20: Whirling Sword -- Sciroc-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg(31), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(31), Armgdn-Dam%(39), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 24: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(34), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(34), GftotA-Def(34)
Level 26: Disembowel -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Dam%(39)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Head Splitter -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(42), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(42), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(43), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(45), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 38: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-Rchg(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 41: One with the Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(46)
Level 44: Aid Other -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 47: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal(48), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(50), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(50), IntRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(40), EndMod-I(48)
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I don't doubt you could do it if you moved instantly, you just wouldn't have any margin for error. I know that my Stone/Fire would have trouble since I rely on TP for combat mobility... that much movement is a distraction on a stone. I was constantly jumping away with CMA, taunt and land an attack or two then jump back to avoid blue death and fire off a ranged attack and taunt. I was moving constantly and that's something that Stone tanks frequently have problems with.
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Quote:I know what you're getting at, and I certainly agree. I'll try with my SD/Fire tanker once I get him alpha slotted... I just unlocked the slot tonight and I'm not about to take him in unslotted.Sorry, I just assumed that an Invuln or Stone would have a much easier time with Mynx, hence the title of the thread.
I did have soft capped defense along with hard capped S/L resist on CMA though so I can well understand a straight def tanker getting pounded if she landed many hits. -
I'll throw my 2 cents in on a Shield/Fire as well; I just took one to 50 and it's highly durable, cheap to soft cap and deals near-scrapper level damage.
You could go with a Fire/Shield scrapper if you like; you'll have the same strength aggro aura with a lot more damage. It will cost more to soft cap but for a duo it's plenty tough enough to tank for your buddy. If you're just going to duo then a tanker's overkill on durability. -
Quote:I just ran the Tin Man last night with CMA; I found it to be MUCH easier than Apex. Maybe I got lucky but Minx was a complete non-issue for me and we did pull & kill Neuron first. I did pop a medium purple as a precaution for her vengeance buff taking me to 75% def but she never hit me for any sizeable amount of damage. A few ~500 point hits but nothing serious.Sorta, but it's stronger than normal vengence, and it seems to be permenent after neuron drops (or at least, I've yet to see her super vengence drop) So if you want to bypass the extra badge, you'll have a much easier time dropping her first.
The Director 11 fight was much tougher than either Neuron or Bobcat, even with the two AV level warwalkers added to the party. I think we ended up the TMTF with about 8 deaths, mostly from AOE splash on the two blappers on the team. That footstomp on the walkers is no joke for squishies.
Now the Apex TF on the other hand... that puppy's a serious ramp up in difficulty. I've done it twice, once with no tanker playing my Ill/Rad and ending up with 153 deaths on the team - mostly from the dreaded blue zones. The second run I brought CMA and we cut that down to 66 deaths. For any tankers thinking of running Apex, you MUST be very mobile... when (not if) the blue haze forms under you GET AWAY immediately, it WILL kill you. I wouldn't try it with a Granite tanker; you'll have lots of problems getting away fast enough.
Also, the hydra heads in the first Apex mission are seriously nasty; they deal massive toxic damage; something that came as quite a surprise for me when they planted me in 5 seconds.I'll give the Dev's this, they certainly went outside the box with the Apex TF to make it challenging. Standard tank & spank tactics will not work.
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Quote:No, I was directing it at the OP. What I meant was that unless Mids is wrong about axe I didn't see anything there that would KB even level or above mobs unless they were weak to KB.I'm not sure if the "clarification" on Stone Melee and what is kd/kb was directed to me or not. If you read my post you'll see that I stated that for the most part SM is Knockdown/Knock Up; unless you slot the KD powers for MORE knockback, which will turn the KD into KB. Slotting knockback enhancements will take that .67 mag and make it stronger which WILL put it over the kd threshold to changing them to KB.
Again, Hurl Boulder does Kb as it's at least a mag 6 if not higher effect.
So, if it was directed at me, please re-read my original post. If it wasn't, ignore me. -
I found that the Stone/Fire combination worked very well; it of course lacks any mitigation in the secondary but once a stone tanker matures it has all the durability it'll need so you really don't need mitigation from the secondary.
I'll definitely second the suggestion for TP... it's almost mandatory for a stone tanker to have mobility in combat without toggling off the mez protection. I personally really don't like TP as a travel, but I still have it on my Stone tanks for combat mobility. It's either take TP, build for massive runspeed IO bonuses or always team with a kinetic for speed boost.
By the way, Stone Melee doesn't have knockback, it has knockDOWN instead. Look at Mids, any power that lists knockback of MAG 0.67 will not KB even level foes unless they're weak to KB like Clockwork. Looking over the Axe set I don't see any knockback powers there either; everything's either knockdown or knockup (which will send mobs straight up, then straight down at your feet). You'll only get knockBACK if you're fighting lower level mobs or a very few specifically weak to KB. -
You have Rad blast X-Ray Beam, Tanker/Scrapper Energy Mastery APP power Laser Beam Eyes and the Peacebringer's Glinting Eye... those are the only ones that I can think of offhand.
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Stone/Fire is a great combination, I took one to 50 back in issue 7 and it was a great ride. Fire has better recharge than Stone Melee and it's lower on end use as well as outputting more damage, particularly AOE.
On the other hand Stone Melee has superior mitigation with knockdown in both hammers and the greatness of Fault. It's almost totally a single target focused set however, the only damaging AOE is Tremor and it does about Stone Fist damage. Both Fault & Tremor however are AOE knockdown powers so you have metric tons of mitigation.
Having played both secondaries to 50 and having played the Stone/Fire pairing to 50 that's the way I'd go; once you hit 32 you won't need the additional mitigation of Stone melee and the better recharge and damage of Fire helps out with the penalties of Granite. In my opinion it's probably about the best overall pairing for Stone Armor. -
Quote:Well, I play pretty much everything; the Ill/Rad is one of my top 4 favorites though.I am having a rough time finding an alt, and I am not ready to roll a warshade quite yet, wanted to get a few toons to 50 first, so I was wondering what else you guys play and find just as much fun to play, I think I want something versatile but more personal damage then pet damage, and a much better attack chain.
Anyways share your alts all, this will be fun thanks.
Just at level 50 I have every AT blueside represented but Warshades (my 'shade is 45) but here's a few of my favorites:
Inv/Stone tanker - CMA was my first 50 and still a favorite.
Shield/Fire tanker - it's a lot of fun, only slightly less durable than CMA with lots more damage.
Broadsword/Shield scrapper - mass carnage and near-tanker level durability.
Ill/Rad controller - a fun character to play and useful in any team.
Fire/EM blaster - fun for when all I want to worry about is pumping out massive damage. A bit interesting at times when things go south though.
Dark/Dark defender - the ultimate tohit debuffer; not much damage potential but it absolutely neuters an entire room of baddies.
There's a number of others I play but those are probably my favorites of my 50's. -
Quote:Oh yes, this is a really, really good pairing. If you want to get really, stupidly good you can get a team of 4+ Fire/Dark corrupters... alternating 2 tar patch/2 rain of fire on every spawn with 4 fireballs tends to wipe out all but bosses, and 4 Blaze usually does for the boss.If you liked the Dark/Dark then you need to try a Fire/Dark corruptor.
It is nearly game breaking.
The carnage of a fire blaster and the control and debuff of a dark defender, what's not to love?