Jumping with Granite Armor

To all my fellow Stone tanks and brutes out there, I beg the question: Should granite be able to jump? Conceptually, it seems silly to prevent them from doing so unless Rooted is on. Understandably, they would have a penalty to jump speed and height, but without the ability to jump, minor bumps in terrain become a real problem sometimes. Stone tanks should not be required to pick up Teleport to be able to function. When fully IO'd my stone build averages at 28 mph with just Granite on, but without the ability to jump, I'm still severely limited in my ability to navigate rough terrain.

So what are your thoughts on letting Granite jump? Of course, Rooted will still root you to the ground, but without it, even being able to jump a few feet off the ground would help tremendously. When compared to other Tanker primaries, Invul can become equally tanky but with exponentially higher mobility. The recharge, damage, and movement penalties should be plenty.

I think conceptually you are supposed to be an immovable rock when your granite armor is turned on, but i agree, not being able to jump a small obstacle really limits you.

I'm not sure if it's still around, but there used to be a really cool youtube video of a granite tank with so many stacked inertial reductions from kinetic controllers that he was able to jump all over the place. It was really funny to watch.

While I agree with the idea I'd be concerned that if they gave Granite the ability to jump they'd nerf something else, or even turn it into a click power. After all, I think Granite's the only godmode toggle power in the game; I'd hate to loose that.

I realize that Invul can't match the amount of regen that Rooted offers, the movement penalties that Rooted adds to the already significant penalties imposed by Granite should be enough to offset this. I'm still all for the idea that you can't jump while Rooted, however, so that component would remain unchanged. I'm simply suggesting that while in Granite form, but not using Rooted, we should be allowed at least some vertical mobility.

I think that the no-jump limitation is the only one you can't overcome with set bonuses, and as such, unlikely to be removed. It IS a significant problem that affects the usefulness of these tanks...but it's the only one that can't be easily mitigated, so as long as they want Granite to pay a penalty, this one will probably be in place.

However, if they remove it, and allow limited small hops to get over curbs and guardrails and the like, I'd prefer if they let you step on and flatten the curb or guardrail instead of hopping nimbly over it.

Learn to use map geometry and game physics to get around easily. Alternatively: Learn to Teleport.

Problem solved.

To be honest, one of the primary reasons I'm suggesting this change is because in order to be a stone tank, you are required to have Teleport, no exceptions. Don't misunderstand me, I absolutely love taking advantage of ramps in-game to get a pseudo-jump but that's not intended by the devs (and in the video he has the benefit of SB and IR, both of which I've learned to live without); I just think it's silly that in order to have any type of vertical mobility, stone tanks absolutely need Teleport. It's a crutch that clashes with character concepts and is probably my least favorite travel power of all, but is a necessity in order to pull off the Granite tanking style. With all the set bonuses I have, I'm able to run at an acceptable speed, but still completely lacking in the vertical department. Even allowing Granite to jump with severe penalties would be a sufficient change; I'm sure there are others out there that share this sentiment.

In terms of giving Granite an unfair advantage, when fully IO'd the difference in durability between Stone and other sets isn't enough to warrant Granite having the complete inability to jump IMO. Most sets can softcap defense in all the critical areas, be HP capped, and still be S/L/E/N capped. But none of those sets are severely limited in their ability to move. I'm willing to accept the recharge, damage, and speed penalties to offset Granite's ungodly durability, but all I'm asking for is just a couple feet of jumping room.

While I think it would be nice to be able to jump 4 feet or so, it certainly is not needed. A part of me actually has enjoyed learning how to overcome the weakness and cope with it. Teleport, while handy, is certainly not needed and I have not taken it on my stone tanker.

I don't have Granite, instead choosing to cap to all types and run all the other toggles. I carry break frees like I would on a defender and just turn off Rooted occasionally in order to have movement on demand. That strategy seems like it would be more difficult on a Granite tanker, but a Granite should be harder to kill than my build.

In the end, I probably think the trade-off of movement for survivability is probably fine as is, although I would not bemoan 4 feet of jump height.

I honestly thought that the inability to jump was only connected to Rooted. Granite is slow, yes, and I suppose I assumed it had a -jump debuff, but not as great as Rooted.

Still, Granite can be turned off, just like Rooted. It takes longer to recharge, but in fact, it takes less time to put back up.

I honestly intend to take Granite only for a secondary build I don't intend to use very often. I may get Teleport with it, but I may not.

Alright, well I suppose Teleport isn't absolutely required, but its usefulness in Granite form can't be understated. It's the only means of vertical movement available in-form, as well as the only travel power that can even be used in Granite or Rooted. I know Granite is supposed to be heavy, but just being able to run should be enough to be able to jump.

I don't exactly know how to get this suggestion across to the devs other than continuing this thread, but their feedback would be appreciated.

It would be hard to give Granite enough jump just to make it able to hop a couple feet and nothing more. Consider Hurdle enhancements and IR, both could make Granite jumping easy.

The only way I could see it happening is if Granite gave you a debuff to jump hardcap instead of a very high jump debuff.

I don't know how difficult it would be, but I was always surprised that they hadn't made a jump height hardcap as part of being in Granite.

I'm not sure how flexible the game's engine is when it comes to implementing hardcaps that differ within the same AT, but even an unresistable jump height debuff should be sufficient. If you have enough IOs to increase your jump height by any reasonable means, then so be it. But IMO, Granite's jump height and jump speed debuffs should be on par with its already hefty run speed debuffs, if not slightly moreso. Rooted is where jumping shouldn't be allowed at all.