A tank AV soloer?


all_hell

 

Posted

Was just wondering if there was a certain tank build that would have the capability of soloing an AV, and if there is, what powersets would it have to take. Also would the build have to sacrifice survivability to solo an AV?


 

Posted

I would guess a Shield/DM might be able to do it. Considering Shields can be basically softcapped without set bonuses, you shouldn't need to sacrifice too much. Just a guess on my part as I have little interest in it myself. Seems to be the FotY for all things fantastic. Maybe Shield/Fire.


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@Starflier

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _UJ_ View Post
Was just wondering if there was a certain tank build that would have the capability of soloing an AV, and if there is, what powersets would it have to take. Also would the build have to sacrifice survivability to solo an AV?
As it stands right now, any tank that soloed an AV/Hero class opponent without temporary powers would have Castle, Synapse, AND Sunstorm all agreeing to implement a nerf on the very next patch.

One of the factors you have to consider is that very few scrapper / brute builds can generate to required DPS to over-come an AV/Hero class's regeneration rate. A tank, by default, even using the same exact slotting as a scrapper, is going to be down on damage by 30%.

Now, if you are dead set on trying this, go over to the scrapper forum and read through the pylon results build: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130754

Ask the person who managed to drop a pylon in 4 minutes with a Fire / Shield scrapper what their build was. That's probably going to be your best bet to try and do it on a tank.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _UJ_ View Post
Was just wondering if there was a certain tank build that would have the capability of soloing an AV, and if there is, what powersets would it have to take. Also would the build have to sacrifice survivability to solo an AV?
Wait until the Interface Incarnate slot arrives. Your attacks having -regen or -resistance debuffs would help considerably, as would being level shifted.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
As it stands right now, any tank that soloed an AV/Hero class opponent without temporary powers would have Castle, Synapse, AND Sunstorm all agreeing to implement a nerf on the very next patch.

One of the factors you have to consider is that very few scrapper / brute builds can generate to required DPS to over-come an AV/Hero class's regeneration rate. A tank, by default, even using the same exact slotting as a scrapper, is going to be down on damage by 30%.
And once again, you're completely wrong. Of course, that's pretty much to be expected with any of your posts...

I've soloed several AV's on my Fire/Shield scrapper. AV regen is just under 100hp/sec. Therefore, any build capable of generating more than 100 dps will eventually be able to defeat an AV. It might take a long time if the damage is low enough, but it can be done.

Tanker Fire Melee has 3 attacks with over 100 DPA. Combine that with the unresisted 20% resistance debuff from Bruising, along with a damage boosting Primary like Shield Defense, and it is very possible for a tank to solo an AV. I'd suspect that Kinetic Melee and Dark Melee could also pull it off pretty handily when combined with Shield Defense.

ETA: And if the player is willing to accept using inspirations and temp powers like the Envenomed Dagger (regen debuff), it becomes even easier.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
As it stands right now, any tank that soloed an AV/Hero class opponent without temporary powers would have Castle, Synapse, AND Sunstorm all agreeing to implement a nerf on the very next patch.

One of the factors you have to consider is that very few scrapper / brute builds can generate to required DPS to over-come an AV/Hero class's regeneration rate. A tank, by default, even using the same exact slotting as a scrapper, is going to be down on damage by 30%.

Now, if you are dead set on trying this, go over to the scrapper forum and read through the pylon results build: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130754

Ask the person who managed to drop a pylon in 4 minutes with a Fire / Shield scrapper what their build was. That's probably going to be your best bet to try and do it on a tank.
Sorry, but with the right build and powersets it's certainly possible. As was mentioned all you need is >100 dps to eventually kill an AV; Shield/Fire can certainly do it as can several others.

As long as you can output over 100 dps and have endurance sustainability then the AV's going to go down eventually. I've seen some tanker builds post dps in excess of 150 dps so it's doable. It'll be boring as hell but it can be done.

Heck, soloing AV's with a perma-PA Ill/Rad is boring enough; I've done it a few times but once you've proven it can be done what's the point?


COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

 

Posted

Well on 11/19 I was bored and on my fire/fire tank ..so I was in boomtown and found babbage.thought what the heck and was actually able to solo him ..I used gfs,incinerate,sands of mu,black wand and nemy staff and of course burn


On top of that..f.e. and b.u. ..Using melt armor and bruising as well ..I used temps too..envemon daggers helped


As soon as I got done with that I went and did addy and it was even easier so yes it can be done


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
As it stands right now, any tank that soloed an AV/Hero class opponent without temporary powers would have Castle, Synapse, AND Sunstorm all agreeing to implement a nerf on the very next patch.

One of the factors you have to consider is that very few scrapper / brute builds can generate to required DPS to over-come an AV/Hero class's regeneration rate. A tank, by default, even using the same exact slotting as a scrapper, is going to be down on damage by 30%.

Now, if you are dead set on trying this, go over to the scrapper forum and read through the pylon results build: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130754

Ask the person who managed to drop a pylon in 4 minutes with a Fire / Shield scrapper what their build was. That's probably going to be your best bet to try and do it on a tank.
Je-saist sais pas.

The is at least the second time I've seen you assert that a tank cannot be built to solo an AV, and then corrected afterwards. It is indeed possible. Shield/DM IOd for soft-cap and recharge can sustain the DPS needed to solo an AV. Without any extra support from temp pets.

Seriously, cut out the stubborn vendetta you seem to have with AV killing tanks.


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
As it stands right now, any tank that soloed an AV/Hero class opponent without temporary powers would have Castle, Synapse, AND Sunstorm all agreeing to implement a nerf on the very next patch.
More than one person has said that they have done so on a tank already.


 

Posted

I'm working on an Invuln/Dual Blades tank that, when done, should be able to solo AVs nicely. I plan on STacking the -resistance from Bruising with the occasional -resistance from the Achille's Heel proc and the Fury of the Gladiator proc.

My attack chain will be Nimble Slash-Blinding Feint-Attack Vitals combo, with an Achille's proc in Ablating Strike and the FotG proc in Sweeping Strike. I found out what I need recharge wise to pull it off, and realized that you can run that chain with 0% global recharge necessary.

Unfortunately, that particular tank is only level 13 at the moment, so it's going to be quite a while before I can find out if it works as well in practice as it does on paper.

It will also be softcapped to S/L/E/N with 90% S/L resistance, so most of the AVs I plan on tackling will barely be hurting him at all. (Siege, Marauder, Chimera, etc., I'm avoiding the Psi users like the plague)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

With the recent changes in Fire Armor, I would think Fire Armor could pull it off nicely.

Fiery Embrace, Burn, Bruising Effect for the -20% Resist, pick a secondary that does some damage and off you go!

Maybe even Dual Blades, able to get in 2 -resist procs, so you can possibly have -60% Resist going on at once, for the added damage of Burn and Fiery Embrace to take advantage of.

Seeing as how the chain mentioned earlier for Dual Blades didn't require any global recharge, that means you can work solely on even more added survivability!


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Unfortunately, that particular tank is only level 13 at the moment, so it's going to be quite a while before I can find out if it works as well in practice as it does on paper.
When I solo'd Battle Maiden (just the normal Battle Maiden, mind you) I was glad to have an endurance recovery in /DM. You may want to make sure you have enough end reduction and recovery to last for the battle. My fight with her took a little over 20 minutes (twice I had to find more Soul Drain fodder).


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

True story time.

Back somewhere around issue 7 or 8, I sort of soloed Terra, exemplared to level 40-ish.

I say sort of soloed, because I had a single buff applied to me - an Adrenalin Boost from a controller. I did not need it for survivability, I needed it for the endurance. I was doing enough damage to overcome her regen already, but the A-Boost made it go faster.

That was pre-invention, so I did not have nearly the recovery or endurance efficiency on my Inv/Fire that I do now.

My current build has 77.5% global recharge, more damage, more endurance recovery, and a Cardiac Radial slot.

I think I could probably pull it off purely solo now. In fact, I need to try to solo an AV with him again.


Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

Posted

And... Just soloed Nightstar via Ouro.

Je Saist, you can take your words back any time now.


Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

Posted

Pretty sure I could solo an AV or two with my Ice/KM, I'd most likely have to find new fodder for EA.

I managed Inferal on my Ice/Ice, although I did use a whole ton of insps to give myself stupidly high damage. I'm sure some of the scrapper AV soloers will say that doesn't count. this was about i15/16

I'm hoping for my Ice/DM to be even more effective in both general tanking and GM/AV solos.

The main trick is using the fury of the glad proc with breezing, if you've got a nice damage toggle/aura you can "slot and forget" and just work your tier 1 into your attack chain.

You may wish to slot for E.D capped end redux on every attack, and aim for roughly 70% damage and E.D capped recharge, using the tier 1 damage alpha to E.D cap all your attacks for damage, until the tier 3 or 4s come out with a decent enough recharge to make maxing out the stats an optimal idea.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flints View Post
I managed Inferal on my Ice/Ice, although I did use a whole ton of insps to give myself stupidly high damage. I'm sure some of the scrapper AV soloers will say that doesn't count. this was about i15/16
The general consensus on the scrapper boards is that inspiration use is acceptable, but temp pets don't count. The truly hardcore do it no temps no inspirations, but soloing an AV is soloing an AV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
The general consensus on the scrapper boards is that inspiration use is acceptable, but temp pets don't count. The truly hardcore do it no temps no inspirations, but soloing an AV is soloing an AV.
I need to do another AV with the Ouro settings for no temps, no insps. I did it this morning, but I neglected to use the proper settings.

I imagine if an Inv/Fire can do it, things that get a boost from their primary can do it better.


Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
The general consensus on the scrapper boards is that inspiration use is acceptable, but temp pets don't count. The truly hardcore do it no temps no inspirations, but soloing an AV is soloing an AV.
Really? I thought the general standard was no insps, no temps? Wouldn't insps give you a larger advantage than even a shivan, considering how easy it would be for a non def-based set to cap their defenses for 16 minutes, or at the bare minimum, 8 min (my Fire/Rad needs < 5min to take down a pylon, and that's not even closest to fastest). I guess for tanks/scrappers/brutes, temp powered debuffs would usually mean more than insp-based defense.


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_p View Post
Really? I thought the general standard was no insps, no temps? Wouldn't insps give you a larger advantage than even a shivan, considering how easy it would be for a non def-based set to cap their defenses for 16 minutes, or at the bare minimum, 8 min (my Fire/Rad needs < 5min to take down a pylon, and that's not even closest to fastest). I guess for tanks/scrappers/brutes, temp powered debuffs would usually mean more than insp-based defense.
It's acceptable, but most think you should mention using insps.


As for the topic (and je_saist's comment), I've soloed an AV on my SD/DM tank and I'm sure my Ice/SS could do it, too.

P.S. Waiting to see if je_saist is actually willing to back down and admit they're wrong like they claimed in a thread in Player Questions not so long ago.


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

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Posted

I'm waiting for je_saist to prove that he's got that higher standard, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
You don't like the fact that I am willing to back down and admit when I'm wrong on something. You don't like that I hold a higher standard for myself.
Should I hold my breath?


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

I'll one-up that...

I'm perfectly willing to invite him to my team and allow him to observe me soloing an AV. My results are reproducible.

Of course, he will have to agree to take back his statement, publicly, when I present proof.

And, no, I truly don't believe that Fiery Melee is in any risk of a nerf.


Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

Posted

You may have to send him a PM for the challenge. From what I hear, he never posts again in a thread when shown wrong.

You know, cuz no one can prove you wrong if you aren't there.


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

I think that just makes it clear that, any time he posts in the tanker forums, he has to be told that he's not allowed to talk until he's accepted my challenge.

Nah, too much work.


Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

Posted

I swear Je Saist does it deliberately. There is no need to pick up and call Je Saist out. If a number of posts oppose Je Saists reply when simply replying to the OP then that should be enough I'd of thought. With temps I think it deffo, or with good IO sets I think deffo. On SOs alone nah and with that I would agree that if a tanker on SOs soloed an AV there would be a nerf.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Alright thanks for all the feedback guys. So I know I have to make a shield/ or an Inv/Fire might be viable to solo an AV. You think Shield/EM would work or would I have to go with fire/dark/Kinetic Melee?