abnormal_joe

Ice is hard to beat out of the box.
With SOs only you can soft cap to almost everything a nice DP/Aid Self clone, and a combat phase/rest. Unlimitted blue bar is pretty sweet to.

I'm currently running a fire/shield loaded with all manner of +dmg set bonuses. He finds deep fried bosses taste best with ranch dressing.

"They're going to be facing the same encounters and the same amount of damage is going to be coming at them."

This appears to be assuming soloing, where it might be true.
In a team enviroment of virtually any composition the aggro generated by taunting and maintaining fury substantially increases the incoming damage to the brute.
Put another way, your average team when faced with a TF/SF will generally prefer a tank over a brute. Why? Because with very few exceptions every brute they see try to absorb the alpha for an entire team face plants shortly thereafter. In these cases a brute could easily go north of 80-90% fury but it does him no good without external buffs to keep him on his feet. A scrapper on the same team knows better than to take the alpha and does not need it for his inherent so he gets lesser HP and resists to begin with.

That might work. If memory serves one of the rednames said the attack sets were initially balanced around end use and tweaked from there(_Castle_ or BaBs I forget who now).

I would be hesitant to make granite layer over the other toggles without a major overhaul of the end costs for each.
granite/rooted/mudpots already uses quite enough without the additional drain of three or four more toggles layered on top.

Perhaps if rooted was nudged towards something closer to Grounded from the Elec Armor.
Essentially remove the -jump, make the slow resistable so it can be built around. That way you can regain mobility to jump a curb but you still have to be in actual contact with the ground to recieve the status protection and regen buff.

[quote
@abnormal_joe

[ QUOTE ]
I've gotten a handful of PMs from him myself

[/ QUOTE ]

I've gotten a handful of something else entirely from him on a couple occasions.


.

[/ QUOTE ]

karma is a b###h ain't it.

Yup, if change is what you want Acemace and Tundara are the examples you want to follow. The thing is you either need to champion a change the playerbase already wants or you need to convince them that they want it. IE don't call them names and deride them for not supporting you.
RE Castle: He has always been reasonable, I've gotten a handful of PMs from him myself..

Let me put it this way. I currently have 9 tanks covering every primary and secondary ranging from 28-50 the majority being 40+. I lead two all tank SG for the RO network covering both freedom and virtue. I've tanked every story arc, trial, tf, and many MA arcs. I've tanked through ED, GDN, a handful of taunt changes, IOs, and a couple versions of pvp. To say I have a feel for the AT is an understatement.
For comparison I have half a dozen scrappers across the secondaries, most of the 50. I also have two level 50 brutes and a handful of babies. At one point or another I have tanked with every one of those alts as well.
While scrappers and brutes have thier own charms I find myself missing my aggro control when I play them.
The ability to go rogue will certainly not cause me to play tanks less, my almost four years of ingame experience (without breaks fwiw) tells me that the demand for my services will more than likely increase not decrease.
I am not opposed to change and evolution but I will vehemently oppose anything that I see as a threat to the feel and role of my favorite AT.

These discussions drag on because.....

"I don't really care what you think "-Johnny_Butane

Hehe. You will notice though that I am in agreement with Kruunch. I simply state my backround to demonstrate that I understand both sides of this particular fence.
Stunts like that are best left to groups of understanding friends and deep wallets.

FWIW I have tanked Lord Recluse without support on a fire tank....with a full tray of oranges and a 500 million inf build. The odds of getting a pug invite to a STF with a fire tank, however, are not good. Probably better to just roll the stone.

You will probably end up dropping Elude in the long run.
I would not drop ToF amongst its other charms it has a 20 sec duration 11.25% -tohit. Frankly I would slot it for -tohit before I slotted up the fear.
If you need slots I would poach the resists out of tough if anything fill the base slot with a steadfast +3% def IO by that level you could easily save up enough merits or cash.

#1 You know virtually nothing about what's going to be in GR.
Complaints based on fevered imaginations SHOULD be ignored.

#2 Not changing tanks means the devs are listening to the 9 out of 10 players here who like them as is.

#3 You have done nothing but gripe and moan for months, if you are so bloody displeased leave already. No one is making you stay. It is inevitable that every change will "drive away" some players.

#4 If you are so hung up on throwing a car roll a grav troller already.

Well said. Not having your every whim catered to does not mean you were not heard.

Good info here's the revisions. I kept swift because I really miss the run speed when I skip it.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Johhny Revised: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(15), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 2: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(5), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(31), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(31)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(9), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(9), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(11), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(46)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(17), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), Heal-I(23), Heal-I(23)
Level 18: Invincibility -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(19), HO:Cyto(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Super Jump -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(27), DefBuff-I(27)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(43), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Resist Elements -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(34), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(34), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RctvArm-ResDam(33)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(36), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 41: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(45), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(48), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(50)
Level 49: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

It's about that time for my Invuln/DM low 40s decent bnkroll to play with and a burning desire to IO him out prior to facing all the late game baddies.
I've made an attempt to apply the principles from Call_Me_Awesome's excellent invun guide. I just want to make sure I did not miss any tricks before I lay out the cash and burn the respec. Any suggestions are welcome.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(11), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(13), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 2: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(5), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(31), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(11), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(13), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(46), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(15)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(31), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 18: Invincibility -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(23), Zephyr-ResKB(23)
Level 24: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(27), DefBuff-I(27)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(33), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Resist Elements -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(34), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(34), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(43), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(46), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(36), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(40)
Level 41: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(45), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(48), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(50)
Level 49: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

Current tanks are Fire/SS 50, Fire/Ice 50 WP/SM 41, Stone/Fire 46, Invuln/DM 44, DA/DB 43, Ice/Mace 36, Ice/EM 32, SD/Axe 41. Thats every primary and secondary for what it's worth. My favorite depends on the team composition and task at hand.
For heavy tanking I prefer the stone/fire, for skranking I prefer the fire/ss, for soloing I prefer the fire/ice. Dual patches are that much fun.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

After considerable thought how about this......

Competition.

Your foes recognize the threat you pose to their leaders. This weakens their ally buffs and foe debuffs when they are near you.

Visualize kind of an inverse of mastermind supremacy. This effect would be particularly noticable when faced with stacked enemy buffs such as nemesis veng or cimeroran status resistance. This would also come into play when faced with DE emenators, multiple tsoo sorcs, and cot mages.

This would greatly increase the appeal of a tank, or indeed multiple tanks, on a team across the level spread. So long as the effect is not too obscene, say 30% or less effect reduction, it should have hardly any effect on a solo tank.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has some definite possibilities. While I would personally like to see a new tanker mechanic be something more tactile and proactive I can't really fault this idea. I vote for a name change from Competition to Opposition. It's a better PR move.

[/ QUOTE ]
In the highly unlikely event that this suggestion gains the traction necessary to get a redname review I would agree the name "Opposition" sells better and I will be happy to share billing :P.

Suggestions need to take a few things into account.
1.Is it balanced mechanically.
2.Is it a conceptual fit with the existing game(not every individual player's vision).
3.Can it be put in place with a minimum of new code.

Frankly the first point seems to dictate that whatever happens should have a minimal effect on a solo tank. The second point is strictly a matter of choosing a fitting name.
After considerable thought how about this......

Competition.

Your foes recognize the threat you pose to their leaders. This weakens their ally buffs and foe debuffs when they are near you.

Visualize kind of an inverse of mastermind supremacy. This effect would be particularly noticable when faced with stacked enemy buffs such as nemesis veng or cimeroran status resistance. This would also come into play when faced with DE emenators, multiple tsoo sorcs, and cot mages.

This would greatly increase the appeal of a tank, or indeed multiple tanks, on a team across the level spread. So long as the effect is not too obscene, say 30% or less effect reduction, it should have hardly any effect on a solo tank.

Different strokes I suppose. Here's why I made a few of those decisions.

Hasten:the build as is has +26%rech in granite I used to take this on every toon but the end crash and seesaw nature of the buff on a nonperma drove me nuts.

3 slotted swift: I debated slotting this more I might move the purple proc out of combustion to get the second slot. And of course I always log in the train station for the extra boost.

Stone skin: you might notice that I am resist capped to s/l with granite/tough as slotted. out of granite maneuvers/weave/rock armor has me @48%defense to those damage types.

Leadership:this was originally in the build to serve as IO mules for lotg and gota, I ended up settling on maneuvers to soft cap vs s/l/psi out of granite and assault to cancel out granite's -dmg debuff. Obviously I only run what I need, not all toggles all the time .

Breath of Fire: I'm not married to this one it stayed in thus far mainly for the set bonus. I suppose the question would be what would be better in the same slot?

Greater Fire Sword: Do I understand that you drop this in favor of one of the ST attacks from you epic then?

Damage comes at a price. What will you be willing to give up for it?
Frankly why add anything to the AT?
Tanks solo fine after the early levels (a trait we share with trollers) judging by the number I see around in game plenty of folks are playing them, and judging from the tells I get while on one of mine and the chatter I see on teams they are highly sought after by teams.
We have two changes impacting the teaming enviroment. The addition of the MA, which seems to increase the demand for tanks due to the higher relative difficulty of the spawns. And the forthcoming addition of side switching, which is far more likely to put the tankerminds and tankish brutes out of work than it is to reduce the demand for a true tank.
So I ask again why do anything to tanks? (and I do not accept JBs semantic jibberish as a valid argument).

This tank is currently at 46 and all slots are filled thus far. I have not noticed any problems with the build but second and third opinins have a way of improving on perfection.
Here's the build tear it to shreds, tell me what I did wrong.
I'm not made of gold plated influence but as you might notice I can afford the good stuff if I really want it.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Run+(3)
Level 1: Scorch -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(9), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(37), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(40), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(40), Mocking-Rchg(42)
Level 2: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Rchg(23)
Level 4: Combustion -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(5), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Armgdn-Dam%(48)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(7), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(7), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Rooted -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal(23)
Level 10: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Breath of Fire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(17), Posi-Dmg/Rng(19), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(46)
Level 22: Kick -- KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(25), KinCrsh-Rchg/KB(25), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(31), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(34), KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(37)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Weave -- GftotA-Run+(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27), DefBuff-I(27), DefBuff-I(45)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(29), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(42), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(43), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(43), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(43), Mocking-Rchg(45)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Run+(33), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(33), ResDam-I(34), ResDam-I(34)
Level 35: Incinerate -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Knock%(37), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(48)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Knock%(40), F'dSmite-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Run+(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42), DefBuff-I(45), DefBuff-I(46)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Minerals -- GftotA-Run+(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

Out of all my many alts, the tanks by far get the most blind invites followed by the defenders.

I find it laughable they are turning down a SD/SS for a scrapper. I cannot imagine a run of the mill scrapper outdamaging that combo by very much, particularly since it has a kin in tow.